In fact i know i am ...

My baby had to be put to sleep yesterday and i am gutted and crying whenever i see anything that reminds me of him - which is the house, the car, work

However i had already paid a deposit on a lab pup which is due to arrive here in 2 weeks time which was supposed to be company for him. I spoke to the breeder who was very sympathetic and did say that the last boy pup was still available

So basically ive said i will have 2 puppies at the same time.... Now my circumstances are that i work for myself in a warehouse, leo always came with me and the pups will. I live alone, no children and loads of time to spend with them which is good as i know they are going to need a lot of work to stop them bonding more with each other (and i think i could do with something to concentrate on)

I admit i am not entirely thinking straight at the moment, Leo is free from pain but i am hurting so much so i just wanted to ask for some advice on having 2 at once, how much one on one time they need etc, seperate walks, seperate training etc and any stories from anyone with litter brothers and how you got on?

I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss, and whatever you decide I hope it all goes well. I was strongly tempted to take two pups when I got my oldest boy, but his breeder--without ever saying as much as don't!--very kindly and carefully made me see that it was probably worth waiting a while to see how we managed. In the end I waited over a year and then took on an older pup, then 10 months (there are 5 months between Diesel and Jack). Diesel was a bit put out when he realised Jack was stopping, but they get on wonderfully well. With hindsight I'd say that was easier on me and the dogs than getting two siblings at a young age. I've never owned a Lab, but as far as I know they can be quite boisterous and the idea of trying to train two siblings sounds like a full time job to me.

Please don't do it. I consider myself quite experienced, but I wouldn't wish two pups on my worst enemy. I can tell you no end of horror stories. I've got 3 sets of littermates here. The first and third because as a breeder I was left with one extra pup unsold, the second because one dog was returned to me. The second set is no problem at all, because they grew up apart until 20 months old. The first set is 8 years old and are still far too attached to each other, despite going for walks separately, going to training classes separately etc. There are still things I cannot do with them today, and they are fairly well trained -dog has even competed in obedience. The third set is such a nightmare there have been times I wish I'd had one put to sleep rather than keeping two pups of the same age. Believe me, it takes away all the joy, all the nice times. I dare say it's possible with toy pups, but even then it's difficult. I recently had a litter of 3 toybreed pups. Two went to their new homes last week, the one I am keeping is now SO much happier because her sisters are no longer here. She was always pushed out of the way, no matter how hard I tried to give each individual attention.

Thanks for your reply

It wasn't something i planned obviously it was supposed to be a friend for Leo

Basically i can work what hours i want which is pretty much 8-4 but can leave for lunchtime walks etc there is no one to stop me and currently i keep waking up at 5:30 am lol. so i have plenty of time for them i am just unsure how much 1 on 1 vs the pair of them time they need.

I was going to take the one pup to training classes so i intend to find out if they have puppy classes more than one night a week so that they can go on seperate nights, or would they take 2 at once? i may be able to get someone else to come with me with second pup but unsure if that means the pup would listen to me and not them?

I am fairly experienced with labs having dog sat a very boisterous once on and off for a few years, ex's aunt was a guide dog puppy walker so lots of experience there too and a few others i used to look after

It all seems very surreal nothing will EVER replace my leo but it IS nice to have something to concentrate on - the vet nurse yesterday did say she believes everything happens for a reason (as do i) and that maybe leo was trying to say mum i can't cope with a puppy

marriane thanks for that - i have a big decision to make

Jo, no matter how lovely the thought of 2 pups are, I would not advise it..  from my last 4 litters, I have kept, or run on 2 pups. But, unlike your circumstances, I have seperated the pups at around 13/14weeks old.. They do get playtime together, but in total, probably spend the best part of 22hours separated.. They all live in the house, and sleep in the same room, but are crated seperately.

Pups need to bond with you.. not each other.. and that means separation.. which defeats the whole object of your wanting two pups.. you will only be able to have time for one of them at any given time.. they need individual undivided attention.. on your own, you cannot do that..

Next, you have training classes.. with the pups I have at the moment.. I am away from home for a minimum of 4hours every night.. we have training classes. leaving the house at 5pm, for the 1st pups class at 6pm, while pup #1 stays in the car, then swap over for the next class.. Then you have the problem of finding a class which allows you to take both pups in with you.. not only do you need to train each pup seperately, you then have to re-train them together.. Which is not easy, even for the most experienced owner.

When my last litter was born, I refused a prospective owner a pup, she had been on my waiting list for a couple of months, and was really lovely, but when she came to view the pups, her partner suggested two, and it seems they had talked about it.. I said no, I would not sell them 2 pups.. and then decided not to sell them a pup at all.. I had the feeling that they would take my pup, and then look for another very quickly.. I did not want my pup in that situation... few breeders will sell 2 pups together

Get your pup, and enjoy it for a couple of years, and then bring in another.. both you and your dog will have time to enjoy each other before it all begins again...

Some people can make it work, but usually when there is another partner involved, so each pup is getting one to one.. on your own, I dont think its going to be much fun for you.

Only you can make the decision..

I am so sorry to hear of your loss.  I think you have made a decision that you may come to regret by taking on two puppies, especially as you live alone and will be responsible for all individual training etc.
I would urge you to think again and perhaps have a companion for this puppy when he is well trained.  I think you would both benefit from the one to one relationship.  Labs can be very hard work and you need to be able to enjoy your dog.

I'm so sorry for how you're hurting at the moment; the loss of a loyal friend can be very hard to bear.

Please don't take the second puppy - I'm surprised the breeder even suggested it because she should know how very much more difficult it is to successfully rear two puppies at once rather than one at a time. It really isn't in either pup's best interest and as you're on your own you'll be spreading yourself way too thin. I once reared two puppies at the same time (the show pup I wanted from my homebred litter and the one that nobody wanted so he had to stay) and it was so much harder than just one. I'd never ever do it again. There just aren't enough hours in the day to do either pup justice, and it took about 5 years to get them to the stage in training that I'd expect after just one year for a single puppy. Two at once is a huge mistake, however nice it sounds at the time.

>i am just unsure how much 1 on 1 vs the pair of them time they need.

The rule of thumb is that for every 5 minutes they spend together they each need to spend 15 minutes individually with you.

I have had a litter brother and sister in the past,they are 3 this summer and I had no issues.I knew about all the pit falls,the hard work,seperate trainning and knew it could go seriously wrong.However this was one of the few cases where it worked out really well and had a brilliant well adjusted pair of siblings.However I sadly lost my CED puppy at 9 months old,and the breeder allowed me, after careful consideration from myself,to have another puppy.It was sods law that after Kezzzie came home that  breeders other girl became pregnant,Now this was a special litter,and I had been on her waiting list for a couple of years and chances were that she may not have another.So we had a second puppy with only 3 months apart.These pair of monkeys have been hard work.Everything has had to be done seperately(thank god for crates).Toileting,training,ring craft,feeding,playtime,sleeping,walking has had to be done seperately.Which has taken twice as long.They are a difficult breed the best of times,and though I love them to bits and wouldn't change them for anything,I have aged about 20 years over the last 7 months.Good luck with your decision.

I have two female litter mates that are now nearing 3yo in August (I bred them myself).
It wasn't something that I had chosen to do - I only wanted to keep one.
But I couldn't at that time find the right home.

I did take them to training classes and had a friend handle one.
Not the most successful training experiences when trying to do downstays off lead etc.
Plus free time playing off lead with other pups, as they'd work in a pair.

They don't like being seperated (create merry hell when you take one out without the other)
But when out on their own behave really well.
Gang up on their mother - athough haven't taken on the matriarch of my pack who's almost 9yo.

I'm very lucky as one is a follower and the other a leader, so I've not had any scuffles/fights.
If they were both the same in character i.e. both wanted to be leaders I'd have trouble.
However even now I keep a close eye as I don't take things for granted.

I also know of someone else that bred Boxers and sold a pair of pups to someone that ended
up getting one back as the people couldn't cope and claim they hadn't bonded with the tailed pup
that they'd wanted in the first place (This was when docking was still allowed for any breed) and
they kept the docked puppy. I personally won't sell a pair of pups to anyone.

I also know someone that bought a pair of briard male pups.
Whilst young and cute they caused no problems as such but as they got to puberty....
They started fighting and meant it.
This person ended up returning one of the males to it's breeder as they couldn't stop the fighting.

So in summing up if you want more that one dog I'd advise to get only one pup first, have fun and enjoy
training and bringing up a well adjusted, well trained dog. When it reaches 18 months and you've almost
the perfect dog then think about bringing in another pup to the mix.

I have only done this once, one was my own puppy the other wasnt. So, if it didnt work out I was in the position to put the other back.  I was lucky that I had the time and experience to cope with all that having two young pups together brings.  HOWEVER, I would not ever recommend that anyone does this.  the pups will focus on each other rather than you, you really deserve to enjoy your pup when it is yuoung and you can not do this if you have two together.

Hi I can't add anything the others have not say except to say that I can fully understand indecsion and making fast decisions when stressed and grieving. My mum died in February and in March I put my house up for sale- I had no previous desire to do this just seemed that I needed to do something and as the weeks go by I can see that it's almost putting myself under stress to keep busy and so block out the bits I don't want to think about. Maybe you might recognise this in your decision? Take time to decide- If you wait and then in six months decide you want a companion for him you could always start to look again and hopefully by the time pup 2 arrives pup 1 will have had a year with you on your own and help you guide the other into doing the things he knows please you. Try not to jump into fast decisions x

I had litter brother and sister last year, they'll be 1 this month. I've had a few dogs so didn't find it much harder, you just have to set aside double the training time because its better if you train them sperately, or so I found.

i'd just like to add a word about crates. my 2 standard schnauzers absolutely hated them and barked/howled all the time they were in them. obv i didnt use them for long so please dont rely on a crate and if you are taking out one dog at a time weather training or walking, the other could get seperation probs.
the breeder obv thinks it will be nice to let her last pup go to you as well, but dont do it-- she will find another buyer- thats her problem

I agree please don't get two.  Each pup deserves yoru full attention while it is maturing.

If you really feel you need two, why not settle pup in and get an adult rescue dog to keep company.

Sorry to hear of your loss.  I kept two litter sisters, they are nearly 3 and have never had a problem with bonding, they are completely independant of one another. But from the outset I ensured that they spent far more time playing with me and other family members than they did one another. I did allow them the opportunity to play together, of course, but it was strictly limited.
One thing I did find was that they took the longest to house train of any pup I have had, inspite of my best efforts (from age 5 weeks I commenced house training as they were the only two in the litter). They were actually nearly 12 months before I could fully trust them in this respect !
I must admit that I would never keep two from the same litter again, because it is too time consuming, but then I do have a very busy family life.
Also, mine is a fairly undemanding toy breed, where as we are talking about labradors here, certainly this will be a bigger issue perhaps than it was for me. All in all I would advise one pup at a time, but best of luck in whatever decision you make.

Im really sorry for your loss. We had two pups well, 8 week difference in age a BC and CS and we were ok with it. I cant think it was that diffecult the only real problem is when smaller we walked and trained them apart, as they would rather talk doggie and play, than listen human and behave.
When they had got the hang of me human me provide food so behave all ok and they exercised together.

Best of luck with your babies sounds OK to me.

I would echo what many others have said, two pups together is very difficult and i would never reccommend it. Same sex siblings can end up fighting later on and cause a lot more heartache in the long run, whereas the other side of the coin is that they bond more strongly with each other than with you. I think having 2 pups together is so stressful it takes all the fun out of having a puppy. My boyfriend and i had 2 pups from the same litter (we live seperately) and had visions of training togehter, walking together and going ot socialising together, but it was a nightmare when they were young so we ended up doing it seperately. Luckily because we live seperately the spent enough time apart that they bonded closer with us than with each other although they playfight for hours when they are together.
The othe downside is that they grow old together and you may end up losing 2 very close together, you are still grieving for your old dog, imagine that doubled. It doesn't bear thinking about.

So sorry to read about Leo. :-(

I agree with the majority of posters on here, I would say just get the one pup. I remember that I had forgotten, even after a few years, how MUCH work one puppy on its own is - I think one pup will keep you well and truly occupied - and it's easier to change your mind and decide to get another than it is to change your mind once you've got both and wish you just had one. Hope that's some help.

> any stories from anyone with litter brothers and how you got on?

I will give you my experience from having 2 litter brothers but I appear to be in the minority.

I got 2 chow brothers 6 years ago, I had never had dogs or had any close family with dogs.  I did a lot of research but never came across anything advising against litter brothers so I thought 2 would be twice as much fun and company for each other when I was out. 

The first week I had them they did tear through my house like a tornado as being chows they were very independant and weren't interested in me at all, in fact one brother wouldn't even let me touch him that first week.  After that things settled and I did teach them the basic commands.

I had only had them a month when they were diagnosed with severe elbow dysplasia so was advised to not walk them at all (had only just been allowed out after vacinations). At 5 months they had surgery and then needed 6 weeks cage rest, after that resticted exercise for months. 

In reality I could only walk them regularly after the age of 2 without them being sore and lame so I never really managed to stop them pulling on the lead so I used a head halter instead.

My boys adored each other and apart from a couple of spats at a year old there was never any aggression between them although I must admit personality wise they were 'chalk & cheese'.

My experience was so positive that when my husband and I decided our next dog would be a pug and we couldn't agree on s*x and colour we got one of each from different litters, again it has been a very positive experience for us.

A month ago I lost one of my Chows to cancer and my one worry about having litter brothers loomed, how would one cope without the other?  Well a lot better than me, after a couple of weeks of looking shocked and anxious he has now settled and for the first time is interested in forming closer bonds with the rest of the gang, I'm really proud of him.

Would I do it again? In a heartbeat, they really were one of the best things that ever happened to me.  Were they highly trained?  Um, no.  But they did the basics and I even managed a bit of clicker training which they made a point of doing as slow as possible with the odd sigh just to let me know how undignified it was.

I wish you luck with your decision and am of course very sorry for your loss.
Mel

Sorry for your loss, I can only echo the others please think long and hard, two are very rarely a success story. Whilst you are going through the grieving period this may put too much on you to deal with. I would also doubt the breeder who would allow/encourage two.

I have to add to the people saying it's not a good idea - I had 2 pups at once and would never do it again. I understand that you wanted Leo to have a friend, and now of course you don't want the new pup to grow up alone, but really 2 puppies at once is a major headache. Why not ask Lab rescue if they have an adult dog to take on, once the puppy has settled in? Then you still get the fun of 2 playing with each other, but not the problems of 2 the same age.

Firstly sorry to hear of your loss, I know heartbreaking it is.  I can't add any more than other people have said, but please do not get 2 from the same litter.  I am really surprised that a breeder has even offered you a 2nd pup, in my books this is incredibly bad practice. By all means get another pup from them from a future litter but 2 at a time is not good. It's nothing to do with the time you have available, or the time you can give each individual puppy. Two pups from the same litter have already got an established bond, that will only strengthen, you will not be the main focus to either pup, the other pup will be.  How can you tell which pup has puddled in the house, or chewed something. If they're good pups then someone will certainly come along for the remaining pup.

Sorry, GreatBritGirl, I didn't mean to suggest that this was something you were planning, and it must be hard enough to bear without your Leo. From my experience of taking 2 of my dogs to training (obedience and training for working tests), I found that the one who wasn't being handled by me became quite difficult for the other person (my son) because he just had his eyes on me, and we ended up swapping dogs throughout the day to help get them used to the idea that whoever is on the end of the lead is the voice they have to listen to--part of my problem was that my son is not an experienced handler and was also at an age where he didn't particularly want to take my work for it :) . If you are sure you want two pups now, I think you would probably be much better off taking them to separate classes, at least at the beginning. Hopefully you will find someone with some experience who can handle the other one!

Good luck with you new family! x

Such a difficult time for you and this is exactly why I'd suggest you don't get two puppies.  It's worth considering the following:

Whilst Leo may have appreciated another dog for company, the same isn't true of your new lab puppy just yet.  A single pup will thrive on it's own and does not need the company of another dog - in fact it you'll both benefit from the one to one attention for a while.  It also gives you time to make the emotional transition to a new dog.

Most breeders, however sympathetic, would not allow their puppies to be homed in pairs for good reason - most posters have already explained why, and many have real examples of where it's been difficult.  No mater how well you think you'd cope you admit to not thinking straight at the moment and it reminds me of the phrase, 'Marry in haste, repent at leisure'.  You don't want to wake up two months down the line realising it hasn't worked.

If you do decide to go ahead with two puppies - beware litter mates.  There are plenty of well bred pups available so wait a while and at least get one from a later litter.  You may regret getting two: you won't regret one at a time :)

xxx

So sorry to hear about your loss. I have two litter mate males and I would never do it again. They were great as puppies but as they grew and matured the fights started. Now they do not meet or even see each other... ever. From being best buddies now all they want to do is kill each each other. They would fight till one was dead so I have to keep them completley seperate. I would never ever do it again. Have one puppy now and enjoy him,you can always add to your family later.
Regards

Hi , I've no experience of owning litter mates but we do get quite a few sets that stay at the kennels where I work. Only one set is allowed to share a kennel - all the others have to be separated due to fighting each other. Apparently they have been fine together to begin with and have then started fighting like cat and dog ( owners views ). We have had to split up 2 bad fights with two pairs while on their holiday - both were litter brothers.

I agree with the other comments , start with one and you can always add a second further down the line.

> In fact i know i am ...
>

I am so sorry to hear of your loss, a heart breaking time. I do not have the experience of most of the posters on this forum and in our naivety we wished for two puppies - NOT discouraged by the breeder - who told us that with hounds it 'was EASIER'!. Ended up with cousins 12 months apart, even then still too close in age. You have more experience but please even in your emotional turmoil that you must be in, take your time. Sounds lovely but you never realy have individual time for either dog. Five years on, it's great, but that's a large chunk of their lives and yes although now I would not changes things it would have been better for all if they had not come to us within such a short period (four months). Enjoy one first and then think again. One forgets the input and time spent with a new puppy, two in my opinion decreases the pleasure and joy and increases the sheer hard work.

So sorry to hear about your loss, but I would back up what everybody else has said. Please don't do it. Enjoy the puppy you have booked while you can and when older think about another puppy. This was the puppy you chose and I know your circumstances have changed but stick with the one you originally chose, enjoy him and when he has matured think about another pup. Or like someone else suggested if you are really set on having 2 give an older rescue dog a chance once the puppy has settled in.

So sorry to hear about your loss. xxxx
I currently have 2, 14 week old litter sisters, so far my eperiences have only been positive but I am aware of all the possible pit falls and and so I'm doing everything I can to limit them.
Paula