my bitch is 32 days pregnant, vet put her on a 5 day course of worming (finished yesterday) using panacur small animal 2.5%, 17ml a day once a day. when i went to pick it up the nurse said after this she wouldnt need worming again untill the pups are 2 weeks old, but after reading this site i have read that some of you worm from 40 days every day untill the pups are 2 weeks old. what would you all recommend i do? do i need to worm again before the pups are born?

There are different brands and they are given at different times id go with what the vet says

I would never, ever use Panacur that early in pregnancy.  And it is not the manufacturers recommendation.

You haven't got it quite right about the procedure from 40 days gestation to 14 days post whelp though - definitely incorrect. 

The recommended procedure is from day 40 of gestation until 2 days post whelp.

The pups are then given Panacur at day 14 - for 3 days, and then again at 5 weeks for 3 days, and at 8 weeks for 3 days.  Mum has ONE dose only during this time - and it is NOT the same dosing as during pregnancy.

I imagine that you have a giant breed if the vet has given you that amount for your girl.  I still say it was far too early.

> id go with what the vet says <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20 height=10>

I most definitely would not in this instance. 

no she isnt a giant breed, she was weighed in at 17.6kg which is the breed standard weight, it says on the box 12kg 12ml 20kg 20ml so im taking it they worked out the 17ml from this, could this have done some harm worming at this stage of the pregnancy? she had her last dose yesterday, started at 26 days pregnant she is now 32 days

An ordinary adult dose of Panacur 10% is 1ml per kg, and a pregnant bitch gets a quarter dose from day 40 until two days after whelping.

Sounds as if the 17ml at 2.5% is right (but a lot to get down her, when you could be using 10%) just my opinion.

But I have never heard of a bitch being wormed this early in pregnancy.

As the purpose of worming in pregnancy is to limit the passing on of encysted larva to the puppies through the placenta and not to work the bitch as such, which should have been done before mating, then worming at this stage will be ineffective as the migration of larva does not occur at this early stage.

My girls are 20kg approx as adults and I give 5ml of Panacur 10% suspension, and that is hard enough to get down, so would hate to have to try and get 20ml down her each day.

it was really hard, i used a suringe (sp) but she kept clamping her mouth shut, i ended up mixing it with her food and keeping my other 2 away from it

It's hard to know what to do. My vet advised me to worm pre mating and then not at all during gestation and to worm after pups are born.

I wormed my bitch with Panacur 10% from day 40 until 2 days after whelping.  I will do the pups next week when they are 2 weeks old aswell.

Exactly the regime that I follow, and the one that my own vet recommends.

Hi, This is the instructions for the Panacur 2.5% Solution on the Intervet site:

Panacur Small Animal 2.5% Oral Suspension Data Sheet
Pregnant dogs:
1ml   per 1kg bodyweight daily from day 40 of pregnancy to 2 days post-whelping (approximately 25 days).
(= 25mg fenbendazole/kg bodyweight daily)
Practical dosage recommendations:
2 to 4kg                        4ml daily for approx. 25 days
4 to 8kg                        8ml daily for approx. 25 days
8 to 16kg                      16 ml daily for approx. 25 days
As treatment of pregnant   dogs is 98% effective, puppies from these dogs should themselves be treated with a three day course at 2 and 5 weeks of age.
Panacur Small Animal 10% Oral Suspension is recommended for larger dogs.

This is from the Intervet site (manufacturer of Panacur):  http://www.intervet.co.uk/Products_Public/Panacur_2_5__Liquid/090_Product_Datasheet.aspx

If it were me I'd ring the manufacturers of Pancur direct - it may well be that they've brought out a new 2.5% that's not shown on their site and it may be a different method, but for my peace of mind I'd want to know from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Sadly, over the course of the last year I have found that generally vets are pretty clueless when it comes to breeding matters, unless they have quite a number of breeders on their books.

> Sadly, over the course of the last year I have found that generally vets are pretty clueless when it comes to breeding matters, unless they have quite a number of breeders on their books.

I think that a lot of us have found this out over time!  My own vet has quite a few breeders as clients, so, fortunately he is quite up on worming regimes.  But, it has to be said, most vets are not breeders themselves, and a breeder is definitely the person to go to with advice on pregnant bitches.

I note that Trialist mentions the difference strengths of Panacur, and size of breeds.  So - my own thoughts only -

Like Barbara has already mentioned, it is not easy to get large quantities down a bitch without losing some!  I cheat with my girls if they will eat a portion of fish from day 40.  Poached in half milk/half water, the Panacur goes in it.  Most eat it, and, if they don't, then it's down the throat with a syringe.

But pups can be wriggly little squirmers (is that a word?)  and I still use 10% for Chihuahua pups.  Yes, a lot of them only need 0.02ml but it is a heck of a lot less messing around.  As long as you are 100% happy about working out your doses, it is the way to go IMHO.  I work out exact doses (not 4ml for 2 to 4kg etc) as I don't think it's exact enough. 

When you see that Trialist has mentioned with Panacur 2.5% the dose is 1ml per 1kg of bodyweight daily from day 40, on a 10kg dog that is 10ml - can be a lot to spill!  :-)  Using Panacur 10% the dose is a quarter of that - 2.5ml.  Makes sense really.  So much less stress all round.  As already said, this is just my particular slant on it, and it works for me.  :-)

I cheat with my girls if they will eat a portion of fish from day 40.  Poached in half milk/half water, the Panacur goes in it.

I remember you saying this was the method you used on another thread a little while ago. I thought it sounded a really good way to get the Panacur down, and I'd use it when the time comes. Then I de-scaled coley the other day ... do you poach with out without scales!!  :-D :-D

I buy cheap and cheerful Sainsbury's or Tesco's value packs of white fish portions.  So no scales, everything done for me.  I think they're "value" because it's all different sizes and bits - which I don't care about (I just tell them I got it from Marks and Spencer!)  :-)

I would hate for them to think I'm a cheapskate!

It isn't that I won't force feed Panacur, but I like to get it down them as stress free as I can.  If they won't have it in food, then I have no choice but to syringe it down them.

I prefer it to be taken voluntarily too ... but I recall wasting a bit last time as I put on top of her normal food. I imagine the Panacur itself tastes pretty yuk!!  Anyway, I'll go the fish route this time!

i think ive been so lucky with my girl i would just put the wormer over her dry food and she loved it lol

> I imagine the Panacur itself tastes pretty yuk!!&nbsp;

Ok, you will now think I have totally lost the plot! 

It tastes chalky!  :-)

It tastes chalky!

I'm not sure whether I'm asking the obvious but ... how do you know?

ROFL!  :-)

I once said to my vet that I always felt sorry for pups, as they screwed up their little faces when I syringed Panacur into them.  I felt sure it must taste like sucking a lemon!  He said, quite matter of factly -  Do you know what it tastes like (I felt sure he was joking)  when I looked at him he said "It's chalky"  I couldn't believe he'd actualy tasted it!

I had always assumed it was chalky as it looks like milk of magnesia.

That reminds me, what so you lot take as two days post whelping?

Day of whelping plus one day, or two days in addition to whelping day?

Finally managed to get poor Lexi to pee after her C section.  She seems to be finding it painful to walk around and kept sitting.  wonder if the stitches are pulling a bit. 

Gave her the Metacam and AB's prescribed for her this am, and she is now settled and started looking after her babies, other than letting them suckle (prior to the early hours the lights were on but no-one really at home).

I always count day of whelping as day one Barbara.

I hope Lexi will have a fast recovery. 

Interestingly the only two C sections my own bitches have had was with their third and last litters, my last one was with her great grandmother I think in 2001.

I was quite relived that I only paid £100 more than last time, the bill came to £550.  Still meant we could only pay part of the Bill yesterday, and have to pay the balance today.

I couldn't believe he'd actualy tasted it

Well, actually I could. I was helping with a vasectomy on a sheep (don't ask!!), and in the general idle chat, as you do when helping with such things, the vet announced that a certain anti-inflamatory was apparently a good hang over cure!!! He denied trying it himself, but one of his students back in training days had! I guess if giving to the animals it makes sense to try it, but why he decided to try it for a hang over I'm not sure. Don't think I'll bother trying!

Barbara, hope Lexi is doing ok and the pups.  I'm intending to count day of whelping as day 1 for the Panacur - that's what I've been told to do at any rate.

Barbara: have you used metacam on a lactating bitch before and did all go well? I only ask this as a friend of a friend had to have metacam
This is the post:

>Was given metacam 2 days post whelp along with paracetamol due to a temp of 103. Thought perhaps it was pain related (am wondering if mebs it was stress and she sensed something was wrong with pups??). Since then 8 healthy pups have had multiple siezures and sadly now down to 2 pups. Just thought if anyone else had experienced this and what the outcome was....if they managed to salvage any puppies?

We've only ever used metacam once for lactating bitch and all was ok. Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on this.... sorry if its a little off topic but it tied in with hat B said.

>have you used metacam on a lactating bitch before and did all go well?

Not Barbara, but I thought it worth pointing out that the Datasheet for Metacam states : "Do not use in pregnant or lactating animals, as the safety of the product has not been established in these categories of animals."

Yeah. I realised that. We were lucky I think. It was the vet making a cock up with ours but all was well, and I think if I hadn't been told I wouldn't have known any different. But then the story I posted above made me wonder if it was linked with the metacam

I used it when a previous bitch had section 8 years or so ago, and also when Jozi hd Mastitis inn 2006.  No poblems.

Thats good then, maybe it was something else that caused them.... how about the paracetamol?

Never given it to animals.