Sorry, this is going to turn into a long post because I want to include all background info, but the gist is Buster will be 3 years old this summer and he is STILL weeing on my sofa

Our previous dog was always allowed on the sofa, but a few months before getting Buster we bought a new sofa and decided as we had a new pup planned and the current dog was struggling to get on/off the sofa we would train oldie to use his own bed and not allow him (or pup when he arrived) to get on the sofa. Suprisingly, oldie took to the new rules really easily.

Then pup arrived. For the first few weeks we had no problem getting pup off sofa if he ignored us and climbed up, as he got a little more confidant he would flat blankly refuse to get off the sofa if he managed to get on it (tried leading him by colalr, temping him with food/toy, but a Mastiff has a way of demonstrating 'stubborn' that would test the patience of a saint!), so we gave up trying to get him off and allowed him free acess to the sofa *blush*.

House-training was mistakingly done on puppy pads and before long we had an accident on the sofa - a nice huge puddle of Mastiff wee. Unfortunately this seemed to pave the way for the battle I've had since then, the sofa then became a huge, comfy pee-pad

Recently things have been going well. I slipped up last weekend and couldn't face the battle to get Buster out in the garden for his final wee before I went to bed, on waking I found he'd peed on the sofa. I washe the seat cushion by pouring disinfectant through them (far to large to fit in the machine), the cover go through the washing machine with non-bio washing liquid.

Every night since then, I've forced myself to face the 'last-wee of the day battle' which is really hard work. Buster is flat out by about 9:30pm, I take him out for his last wee at 10:30 pm, to get him to get his sleepy butt of the sofa I have to waft a Bonio under his nose (tried all manner of goodies and he'll only move for a Bonio!). Once he's off the sofa, getting him to follow me into the garden is easy, but gettting him to walk the distance (only about 20ft) from the door, over tha patio, past the pond & onto the grass is a MONUMENTAL task. Sometimes he'll happily follow me onto the garden, then lay down & refuse to move I've persisted in getting him up on his feet and eventually he'll have a wee and go back to 'bed' (the sofa). He is heartly praised and given a treat for weeing in the garden.

I must add that there is nothing wrong with his ability to walk, it's a matter of motivation , he simply can't be bothered to go out for a wee. If somebody came to the door, he'd trot down to the door with all the energy & eagerness in the world & if I were to put his lead on he'd go for a walk (tried taking him onto the front lawn, but he wont pee there). He has no problem weeing in the garden the rest of the time, but just simply rather be spralwed out on the sofa (or lawn!) sleeping, than having a 'boring' wee :(

All week I have not got round to putting the sofa seat-covers back on (it takes ages to cram the big seat pads back into the covers that always seem too small once they've been removed). All week Buster hasn't peed on the sofa. However, yesterday I put the covers back on the sofa, woke up this morning and he'd peed on it!

I'm at a loss now - I'm sure he must be able to smell his wee in the seat cushions (I can, if I stick my nose right on them and inhale deeply, despite the disinfectant :( ), so I can't understand why it appears that the seat COVERS entice him to wee - unless of course he has made an association with peeing on the COVERS and not actually peeing on the sofa????? Oh another thought, I put a throw-over over the sofa, but that has not been on there all week untill yesterday - I wonder if it's that he likes to pee on?

I don't know wheather to bother trying to leave the throw-over off, or wash everthing in biological powder or to simply banish the dog from the sofa.

If I banish him from the sofa, would it be too confusing for him to be allowed on the sofa during the day? Or would it be better to banish him 100% of the time? I love having a cuddle with Buster on the sofa - so do the kids.....

At the moment I have dining chairs laid on the sofa to stop him getting on, untill I decide what to do.

I wish I never used puppy-pads for house-training :(

Sorry for the long ramble. All suggestion/observations gratefuly recieved :) I feel better anyway now just from 'venting'!

We had a sofa pee-er years ago.
She stopped doing it all the time but would always go back to the habit if stressed(her friend passed away etc)
We did keep chairs on the sofa at night(and when she was left home alone) to stop her having a chance to pee on it, other times she was allowed on the sofa.
We never figured out how the habit started and never were 100% able to get rid of it(stressful times)...

why is he allowed in the living room when you are not present cant you shut the door and leave him in the hall or kitchen or are you all open plan? I am afraid if one of my dogs was peeing on the sofa I wouldnt allow them in that room full stop.
I know your breed is large and very strong even as a puppy ..have you considered a slip lead to get him outside in the late evening.

(sorry if I missed something Havent read all posts)

We have one we have used for ove 20 years  we call it 'magic lead' we now only have to show it and the dogs leave the room or get out of the crate etc as they have realised they cant beat it ...LOL
but we start it at a very young age encouraging happily to go where ever you want gently with the slip lead on.

I suppose you could try putting on a waterproof cover at night such as the hammock type at least it would save your sofa.
I would also try and break the cycle even if it meant I took him to bed with me.

I am sure if you go to a upholsterer you can replace the foam in the sofa to get rid of the smell .

good luck

R~

We have seven dogs and have trained them with puppy pads without any problems. I recommend them to my new owners as I train my pups to use them before they go to their new homes. They are gradually moved nearer the back door and before long the pups just know to wee outside.
I don't allow my dogs on the sofa simply because there'd be no room left for us , but we enjoy our cuddles sat on or rolling about the floor.
I hope you find the answer to stop his habit.

If somebody came to the door, he'd trot down to the door with all the energy & eagerness in the world & if I were to put his lead on he'd go for a walk

Could you try going out the front and ringing your own front doorbell and when he appears open the door, put him on his lead and take him round the back?

If access to the sofa was denied him would he wee somewhere else or is it just the sofa? If it is not possible to prevent him having access to the sofa could you get a waterproof mattress cover and put this over the cushions at night, with a throw on top of it, so that at least clearing up after him would be easier.

Does he actually cock his leg on the sofa - is the lake of piddle up the sides as well as on the top of the cushions - or does he just wet himself whilst he is asleep?

If all else fails you could invest in some giant nappies or get a go kart and haul him down to the end of the garden each night :-) :-)

I have also used puppy pads in the past without running into problems but I do take puppies outside ever 20 mins of so throughout the day and its amazing how quickly they pic that routine up so the puppy pads are really only for the odd occasion when you know they wont make it!!

I agree with Starryeyes, if it's possible I would not let him into the living room at night. Vic and Missy sleep in my room on their own beds but Ripley is a secret clothes nibbler so I couldn't trust her in the bedroom without having everything in the washing basket shredded. She used to sleep in the living room but she licks the sofa cushion all night and it started to make the sofa smell! So I got the baby gate out of the attic to stop her getting in there at night, she has her bed on the top of the landing now. I imagined I was being a meanie at first but she's not bothered at all.

edited because I can't spell

I know this is slightly off topic, although I do feel it's relevant, but all puppy training pads do is to teach a puppy it is OK to toilet indoors. This is what the OP has found out.

I also think the cushions need ditching, no matter how much disinfectant is poured on them the smell will always be there, deep down, and you'll never totally get rid of it. If you get some new cushions you could always encase them in plastic before inserting them in the covers (which probably need washing in bio powder/liquid). But the better option would be to keep him off the furniture!

> Could you try going out the front and ringing your own front doorbell and when he appears open the door, put him on his lead and take him round the back?

Good plan :) Unfortuantely the stubborm monkey knows that I am planning to take him into the garden for a wee and will refuse to go down the drive to the back garden, he will only walk off our property (as if going for a normal walk), lay on the front lawn, or come back inside!

> Does he actually cock his leg on the sofa - is the lake of piddle up the sides as well as on the top of the cushions - or does he just wet himself whilst he is asleep?

He doesn't cock his leg (doesn't cock his leg outside either, he sort of squats a little, but stays on all 4 legs) . I'm sure he's not weeing in his sleep as he isn't wet on himself and he doesn't smell of wee and isn't slobbered as if he has licked wee off himself. So pretty sure he is just standing on the sofa a peeing like a racehorse

It's frustrating as I know he can hold his wee, I've fallen asleep on the sofa when I've had the flu, slept untill 12noon the following day and Buster has stayed on the sofa with me, holding his wee all that time, so it's not as if he has bladder weakness or some sort of inability to hold his wee.......

>>> If all else fails you could invest in some giant nappies or get a go kart and haul him down to the end of the garden each night  

LOL yes, mastiff sized Pampers :-)

I've had a chat with hubby and think we will do what Nora resorted to - keep him off the sofa during the night (dining chairs on the sofa do the trick :) ). There is a slim chance he may pee on his own bed if not the sofa, but that is layered, with a waterproof layer 2nd down, so I only have to wash the top layer if he wees on it, much less hassel than if he wees on the sofa.

> I know this is slightly off topic, although I do feel it's relevant, but all puppy training pads do is to teach a puppy it is OK to toilet indoors

Totally agree with you!!!!!!

Please anybody housetraining a pup - don't use pads. I would take pup out regualrily during the daytime & leave pads down at night, obviously pup learnt that night time wees are fine on an absorbant thing in the hosue :(

I also take mine outside every 20 - 30 minutes , it really doesn't take long at all until they are running to the door to be out , but I find they are handy to have by the back door incase of an odd accident.

Ours are 7wks tomorrow and we have been taking them out into the garden every 20/40 mins for a wee and poo..and after every meal...tonight the smallest one actually stood by the door asking to go out...she had both a wee and a poo..bless her..once the door opens the others are charging out like loons anyway..but at least they are going out.

I know the mastiff is a big dog but is it possible to crate him at night

since puppies ours have always had to leave the lounge with us at night and then then out for a wee, before settleing into their baskets in the kitchen with the door closed to prevent full time ownership of the sofa and chairs. Am I the only 'cruel' owner that makes them sleep in the kitchen?

>Am I the only 'cruel' owner that makes them sleep in the kitchen?

Nope, definitely not!

No your not the only one , mine sleep between the kitchen and utility room which is heated , I think it is safer this way seeing as my old shar-pei had an accident in the front room a few year ago, he actually slipped off the back of the sofa and got tangled in the window blinds . Goodness knows what would of happened if I hadn't been there.
Therefore no dogs allowed on sofas anymore and I don't leave them alone in the front room when I'm not there.

I dont leave my dogs in the living area either ...two sleep in the kitchen in thier open crates with padded beds the oldest girl sleeps in the hall on her bed or comes up with us . They are allowed on the sofas during the day without any bother.

>Am I the only 'cruel' owner that makes them sleep in the kitchen?

Nope.  Ours go to bed at the same time as us, except they sleep in the utility room and we go upstairs.  As soon as the TV goes off, or the living room lights are switched off they go to the back door for their final wee and bedtime.  In fact if we are late for any reason, they'll usually remind us to get a move on!!

Ever since I can remember, all the family dogs have slept in the 'back rooms' of the house.  If I wasn't already maintaining that tradition then peeing on my sofa would have been number one reason to be ejected from the living room at night.

Mastifflover, you've taken love and devotion to whole new level.  I'd do whatever it takes to trick/fool/cajole Buster out of the living room at night and I'd keep him out too. :)

I think there are a few points to raise which may be of help, or to consider :)

Firstly, unless you are totally one hundred per cent sure there is no problem, I'd have a vet check just to rule out anything medical. I know you say he can hold it for ages etc and that may be true, but does not necessarily rule out a medical problem. (I'm not saying he has one - but it's often good to totally rule out the possibility). Also wise to check things like hips, which can be baffling when they affect dogs, yet do not always appear to show physically. Anyway, just a suggestion to consider.

Secondly, I think management may well be an easier solution, but if you want to try training, then I think you have hit the spot in that he does do as asked if he has more motivation. This is the key really to successful dog training - I probably would not bother with a Bonio but my goodness, if you tried me with some liver cake or roast chicken, it may well be a different story ;)

You'd also need to get to a stage where you are able to give the command "Off" (You don't say "down", do you?) and the action of getting off is rewarded, rather than him doing it as a bribe. This would entail a bit more training around and about daily, which should help in general.

Thirdly, if you are still finding it very hard to get him off the sofa then consider using a Gwen Bailey technique - unless of course the sofa is massive and you are likely to hurt yourself doing it - ask for "Off" and if he does not, then give him a consequence. This does not have to be harsh, and is not intended to be so, (and I know you wouldn't do it like that) but if you can, simply tip the sofa up so that he has to come off it. As I said, this may not be appropriate but it may help :)

I personally would not let him on it during the day and expect him to keep off it at night, I do think that would be confusing for him :)

If there are still problems in the future, and you feel you cannot manage it, I'd suggest getting in a reputable apbc member to help with this. Also you may want to consider a good reputable trainer (try www.apdt.co.uk) in the first instance, if you try the training and it doesn't work.

Hth and good luck!

Lindsay
x

> Also wise to check things like hips,

He's had hips/wrists/elbows xrayed as a pup when he first showed signs of limping, he does have ED in one elbow, but this really is a motivation/training thing I am 100% sure there is nothing physically/mediaclly wrong with him. I know what he's like when his leg is playing up - part of the reason why I gave in and allowed him on the sofa in the first place becasue I didn't want to force him to move off if it was uncomfortable for him to do so. So, I think he has learnt I'm a soft touch when it comes to the sofa :(

> You'd also need to get to a stage where you are able to give the command "Off" (You don't say "down", do you?)

I say 'off' :)  But it doesn't work :(

> Thirdly, if you are still finding it very hard to get him off the sofa then consider using a Gwen Bailey technique - unless of course the sofa is massive and you are likely to hurt yourself doing it - ask for "Off" and if he does not, then give him a consequence. This does not have to be harsh, and is not intended to be so, (and I know you wouldn't do it like that) but if you can, simply tip the sofa up so that he has to come off it. As I said, this may not be appropriate but it may help

I know exacly what you mean - that would be perfect, but unfortunately it's is a large corner sofa, so I can't tip it. I have tried sqeezing myself behind him, between him & the back of the sofa, so as to force him off the sofa - a bit hard to explain, not in a forcefull way, more in a 'crowd him out' way, but he's too heavy to shift!. I must add that Buster doesn't find this sort of thing confrontational or un-nerving in any way, he is more than happy to actually be layed ontop of so having me wedged behind him is nothing negative for him atall.

Regardess of him weeing on the sofa or not, there is definatley some triaining issue here. Motivation for Buster is normally very easy - food - but when it comes to getting him off the sofa AT NIGHT it seems to be completely different. Getting him off the sofa in the day is easy, but must admit 'off' rarely works.

I'm sticking with prevention regarding weeing on the sofa (keep him off it at night), but am trying to come up with a plan to takle this lack of obiedience regardgin a) getting off the sofa & b) refusing to go on the grass.
I'm making headway with his refusal to go on the grass, it's a case of making him think it's HIS idea to get on the grass, so if I get him into the garden and make myself busy with something on the grass (talking to the washing line, stroking the grass, the usual things that make me look like a crazy-lady to the neighbours!!) he'll eventually give in to curiosity and come and look (and get praised), on his way back off the grass he'll stop for a wee. :)

It's the 'off' that is gettting to be a puzzler, (I may have more success if I use a new word?) as I know he needs to do the action in order for me to praise it...........but he wont get off.................................................................YAY - he will if I lure him with his bowl of food in my hand, He'll do ANYTHING for his meal. That's how I got his attention for all his other commands & trick - meal times.... :-)

Woo hoo, I'm excited now, casue I know that will work :-) Can't think of any replacement word for 'off', so I'll stick with that and just make sure everybody else knows not to use it unless they are 100% sure Buster will actuall get off.

Thank you very much Lindsay, you helped kick my brain in gear :)

EtA oh my gosh!!! sorry for the massive ramble

YAY - he will if I lure him with his bowl of food in my hand, He'll do ANYTHING for his meal. That's how I got his attention for all his other commands & trick - meal times

Save a little bit of his last meal of the day and use it to lure him off the settee at night and out onto the grass - once he has performed he can have his reward.

> Save a little bit of his last meal of the day and use it to lure him off the settee at night and out onto the grass - once he has performed he can have his reward.

Good plan, thanks :-)

Thank you very much Lindsay, you helped kick my brain in gear 

:) Oh bless you, thank you! I hope it's helped a bit. I think you are on the right path. I've just taken a look at him and he's a big lad isn't he?!! I bet he's soft as anything, he's lovely!

I think the extra motivation will do the trick. What you might want to do is train him to go both up/on and then off for rewards (dinner, yummy food etc) during other times, too, then he will be more in the habit of doing as you ask, so that it's almost second nature :)

Let us know how you get on!

Lindsay
x

ML,
Unless you completely eradicate the smell on the sofa chances are he may always widdle on or near it- remember that the tiniest whiff of widdle can prompt the dog to go before they've even "thought" about it- plus he's a male and entire which all adds to the urge and a night widdle on the sofa seems to have become a bit of a routine for him. I'd get him sleeping somewhere else altogether. Try a long strip of tin foil on the sofa as a deterrent to keep him off it- it works for many dogs, though some clever types learn to remove it. Might be easier to put this on at night rather than dining room chairs.

> I've just taken a look at him and he's a big lad isn't he?!! I bet he's soft as anything, he's lovely!
>

Ahh, thank you. Yes he is a big lump, but he's definately a softie :)

> What you might want to do is train him to go both up/on and then off for rewards (dinner, yummy food etc) during other times, too, then he will be more in the habit of doing as you ask, so that it's almost second nature

I've tried that today with his meal as a lure :) Unfortunately, allthough that has proved great for getting his attention to teach sit/down & some tricks, getting him on/off the sofa was getting a bit manic, he was sooooo eager to earn his meal he was jumping on/off the sofa and getting far too excited to actually pay attention to what he was doing.
He's not going to learn like that and will risk injuring himself (or me ) with the jumping on/off, so I'll try again tommorrow but use a treat in his food bowl instead of his meal (he'll smell the difference), this should keep him interested without getting him over-entusiastic, so the lesson can be calm & under control!
For now I'm going to stick to teaching him on/off during the day (day time only) as he has defiantely learnt to ignore me when it comes to me waking him for him to go into the garden at night. Once it's reliable during the day, I'll then work on it at night.

I have been thinkng alot about this today, trying to find a reason why he doesn't want to go out for a wee at night (normally wake him about 10:30 pm for last wee of the day). I was starting to think that maybe it's the dark thats the problem (worrying along the lines of night-blindness), or perhaps that he wees on the sofa due to anxiety of being alone at night.

However, we went out this evening, got home at 10:30pm. Buster trotted to the door to greet us, I went strait to the back door & opened it for him to go into the garden. It was pouring with rain & allthough he's not keen on walking on wet grass, he happily trotted out into the garden on his own, straight down to the grass for a widdle, then tanked back into the kitchen , sat & waited for his treat (he knows a wee in the garden earns him a treat) :) A check of the livingroom proved he'd not weed on the safa :)

So, he has no issue with going out in the dark & obviosly no issue with being alone. That is the way he always behaves if we've been out in the eveing, but seeing it fresh again tonight has put my mind at rest :)

The sofa issue is, I'm sure, that he's learnt he can get away with not geting off the sofa when I ask, simply due to amount of times I've givin up trying to budge him.

I have to get on top of this (getting him off sofa when told), allthough he's a friendly softie, he's a big dog and I don't want this disobedience spilling over to anything else. I'm on a mission  now! :)

> a night widdle on the sofa seems to have become a bit of a routine for him.

Yes it has :( I think, even if I were to get a new sofa, he'd still wee on it :( I'm just going to have to keep him off it at night.

> Try a long strip of tin foil on the sofa as a deterrent to keep him off it- it works for many dogs, though some clever types learn to remove it. Might be easier to put this on at night rather than dining room chairs.

Thanks for that :)
He isn't the sort of dog to bother moving the foil, it will either completely deter him from even trying to get up, or he'll sit on it!

I've tried that today with his meal as a lure  Unfortunately, allthough that has proved great for getting his attention to teach sit/down & some tricks, getting him on/off the sofa was getting a bit manic, he was sooooo eager to earn his meal he was jumping on/off the sofa and getting far too excited to actually pay attention to what he was doing.
He's not going to learn like that and will risk injuring himself (or me  ) with the jumping on/off, so I'll try again tommorrow but use a treat in his food bowl instead of his meal (he'll smell the difference), this should keep him interested without getting him over-entusiastic, so the lesson can be calm & under control!

I agree that is best - as you say, the actual dinner reward is toooo much and is overshadowing his learning. You are right to scale that down to just using a treat. Make sure it is a really nice one ;)

For now I'm going to stick to teaching him on/off during the day (day time only) as he has defiantely learnt to ignore me when it comes to me waking him for him to go into the garden at night. Once it's reliable during the day, I'll then work on it at night.

Good move - that's good training! I like your style (and, if I may say so,  your posts generally - you always try to "think dog" which is so important).

I hope you get this cracked. It's an interesting project LOL!

Lindsay
xx

Think there are two key things here: one you've got to try to eradicate the smell completely and two: you've got to establish a new routine, undoing the old associations with widdling in that spot. In order to undo the old associations you've really got to get rid of any molecule of smell- which triggers him to widdle, he can't really control this. I'm not convinced that it is the sofa itself that makes him widdle, it's the smell that lingers.

Ideally I'd suggest you forensically clean the area around the sofa (ensuring no tiny widdle splashes are left) and do the same for the sofa. If possible, wash it all first in the washing machine and then wipe everything down with surgical spirit, including area around sofa (it's a horrid smell but it will break down the widdle molecules and render the smell unrecognisable to him). If possible could you discard your current foam pads and get new ones cut? If money were no problem I would suggest getting a new sofa, but if I'm wrong on this it'd be an expensive mistake, so don't.

If the tin foil works, use that to keep him off sofa for next 6 months. You don't want him to widdle near the sofa either though. If it were me I'd be retraining him to sleep on his own cushion in the kitchen (my dog sleeps there). He may protest for a while but put your earplugs in and dig in- he seems a laid back boy and will soon fall in with your plans. The kitchen is ideal because accidents are more easily and thoroughly cleaned up. Thorough cleaning removing all smells, and a solid routine are, in my view, the keys to widdle control.

As Lindsay so rightly says build his new bedtime routine on really solid, positive associations by using the highest value treats you can muster.

If he continues to have accidents in a new place then you need to consider medical reasons or the possibility that he's marking.

What brilliant timing.  I have Clive, 11 weeks old, from the minute he entered our house he's only ever weed and pood outside [clicking and treating] but then also in his bed or anything "snuggly", i.e. dogs blankets.  As of this morning, I've cleared all "snuggly" things, put the dog bed in the washing machine for the umpteenth time and returned to basics in terms of taking him outside every hour.  Although we click and treat him outside, the weather's been so nice that we have spent time in the garden anyway so I think he never has associated the going outside and doing his business and us clicking and treating him together [apart from first thing in the morning], just a Bobby Bonus if you like!  The weather being awful today I hope is a blessing in disguise, he'll be desperate to get back in!  But this is all incredibly helpful, I love this forum!  Nicki

I know this is an old post, but we seem to have had a bit of a break though!

I worked hard on getting Buster to get off the sofa at night, he is always reluctant to giv eup the comfy sofa but if he gets a little dog-biccy he will get off.
To start with, that was it - I could get him off the sofa but he would lay on the floor & refuse to go out in the garden.
Next step was that he only got a biccy for getting off the sofa once he had walked into the garden :)
Next step, only got a biccy when he got off the sofa, walked into the garden, walked accross the patio & put his front feet on the lawn :)
Next step, only got a biccy when he got off the sofa, walked into the garden, walked accross the patio & walked on the lawn to his favorite wee patch :)

YAY - he will actuall go out for a wee at night, he is very much the sort of dog that requires a reward for doing things he'd rather not do so we've struck a deal!! - he'll get a little bit of a Bonio for getting as far as the lawn, he gets the rest of the Bonio once he's had a wee :)

However, all of this and he was still weeing in his bed :(

About 6 weeks ago I've changed his food from Beta to a very cheap complete kibble (emergency), however it had a good improvement on his stools - they were firmer and getting firmer each week he stayed on the cheap food. Now his stools are kickable - (for the first time ever) but even better, in the last 2 weeks he has only weed in the house 3 times (compare to at least once per night)!!!

I am sure the change in food has helped him, it seems too much of a coincidence that his stools are firmer (less moisture in them) and he's also not peeing at night.
Whatever it is, it's a brilliant breakthough :-)

Fantastic!

Food can make a huge difference I've found - Soli has spay incontinence, and while I can't stop it with diet, what I feed her makes a big difference.  The less processed the better, for her - so your run-of-the-mill food puts her daily dose to 2.4ml; 20% meat minimum takes it down to 2ml; raw feeding takes it down to 1ml.

Doesn't surprise me that different foods would help with a different weeing problem, from what I've seen with her :-)

> Whatever it is, it's a brilliant breakthough

I totally agree.  When I had a BC that had the most awful digestive problems, I eventually changed him to a food that was medium range in price.  Someone commented that it was rubbiish.

Whatever, it meant he didn't have shovelloads of dihorrea to clear up every day.  And having to keep shampooing his bum was getting to him.  Collies don't like you messing with their bums.  :-)

I remember, many moons ago on CD when people were comparing brands.  One person said her aunt had fed Wagg for all her dogs life, and he lived to 15 years.
You just have to do what suits YOUR dog.  :-)  Pleased for you.  :-)

> Doesn't surprise me that different foods would help with a different weeing problem, from what I've seen with her :-)

I'd never even thought his food could have been a contributing factor to him weeing indoors! So glad I stumbled over the fact though :)

Hopefully, this may help somebody else in the same  situation - a dog weeing inside, that has rather moist stools = it's well worth considering a change in food :)

> having to keep shampooing his bum was getting to him.  Collies don't like you messing with their bums.

Oh no, I bet that was awfull for him to have to put up with his bu being washed :( Glad you got him sorted :)

> I eventually changed him to a food that was medium range in price

I'm so shocked at how well Buster has done on the cheap food, it was only meant to be a temporary thing. I was running low on food & had to go away on business for a few days, I wasn't sure if he had enough complete left, so I bought the cheap food (£5.50 for 10kg!!!) to mix in with his supply to make sure he had plenty. As the mix of Beta & cheap was running low, I topped back up with the cheap to see if his poops would get any firmer & they did!!! Since he's been on JUST the cheap food the weeing in the house has massively depleted.

> You just have to do what suits YOUR dog.

Definately :) I only wish I'd tried this cheap stuff sooner now! :)

>I only wish I'd tried this cheap stuff sooner now!

Hard though isn't it?  Intellectually we know that cheap isn't necessarily bad and expensive certainly isn't always good, but we don't always want to risk it! :)

Good news about Buster, I can't quite get my head around a wee soaked sofa!!

> I can't quite get my head around a wee soaked sofa

LOL a puddle of wee from Buster is like a burst water-main
Thanks to Nooras tip, I now put dining chairs on the sofa during the night to stop Buster getting on, so once I managed to actually get him off the sofa before I went to bed, any puddles ('lake' would be a more fitting description!) have been in his bed - MUCH easier to clean than a dripping sofa!!

Oh, I forgot to add to my update, that Bust is getting soooo good at getting off the sofa at night, he usually gets himself off and goes to his own bed, way before final wee-of-the-day time :)

>I now put dining chairs on the sofa during the night to stop Buster getting on

That reminds me:  When I was about eleven I got my first proper Valentines card from a real boy through the post.  I was so engrossed in this card I sat down to breakfast and fell straight through the seat!  My Mum used to lift the seat pads out and place them on the sofa to prevent the dog from sleeping there.

My family have never forgotten the sight of me with my head and legs poking out, and I had to be rescued by my brother and sister who were wetting themselves at my plight.  Valentines Day has never been the same since!!

I feel like we've grown up with Buster - he's doing well isn't he :)

> I was so engrossed in this card I sat down to breakfast and fell straight through the seat!......I had to be rescued by my brother and sister who were wetting themselves at my plight.

LOL, that gave me a great chuckle :)

Hope you didn't hurt yourself though.

ML,
So pleased for you that it has all come together. Sounds like you have done really well and the food element is an interesting element.

I have a special little bedtime routine with my lad and I think he rather looks forward to it, not least because the finale is a treat under his blankets which he gets as the kitchen door closes- all this after last wee in garden. He knows he has to do all those things to get his bedtime sweetie.