My LB gun dog bitch was mated on day 18 and 20 of her season, (ovulated day 19) and went on to have her litter on day 63 from the second mating. During the whelping she had to have 2 oxytocin jabs and this subsequently resulted in 5 pups, albeit they were on the smaller side. 

I took her for a checkup last night and spoke to my vet about the chances of this happening again if I ever decided to try for another litter.

He said that she didn't produce enough oxytocin to push the pups out, either because the litter wasn't huge for the breed that she is, and subsequently the pups she did have were tiny.  Had there been more pups or they'd been bigger in size, she would probably have been ok. Obviously he couldn't tell me whether it would ever happen again.

So, does anybody have any experience of a small/low amount sized first litter from a maiden bitch, that has gone on to have maybe a second litter that produced normal size pups with an average sized litter for their breed?

Thanks :)

I think most of us would agree that no bitch will do exactly the same the next time.

Did you have her scanned to get an approx idea of how many she was carrying?  Did you/how much did you increase her feed during the last 3 weeks?  I had a litter last weekend - of just 4 when she had 11 last time, pups were of a very good size.  She had a very slow delivery, possibly due to not enough pups to stimulate labour, but we managed to deliver them all safely without veterinary attention.

I don't quite understand - He said that she didn't produce enough oxytocin to push the pups out, either because the litter wasn't huge for the breed that she is, and subsequently the pups she did have were tiny.  the oxytocin would not have effected the size of the pups.

At least you have a litter, I'd just be very happy you have 5 live pups, so many on here recently have had bitches fail to conceive.  Both you and your bitch will enjoy the litter and it won't be too hard work for her.  Just enjoy them, you'll have more time for each puppy as it gets older and can get to know them well which will help greatly when finding them homes.

No bitch is the same, nor is the same bitch liable to be similar next mating/whelping

I had one girl who produced 3 pups from a day 4 mating, 2 years later produced 2 pups from a day 22mating... neither whelping required intervention or oxytocin

My last litter, one of my girls produced 9 pups, this was her 2nd litter,  3 years ago, her 1st litter produced 3 pups.. small little required no intervention.. large litter required oxytocin

5 pups is a nice sized litter, I certainly prefer this litter size to anything larger.. more enjoyable :-)

i agree i love small litters ,i think my girl due any day is having a small litter 1st time mum so much better for them ,and play time is great .

Thank you all for your replies  :)

Ells-Bells, sorry I probably didnt word that properly.  I know the Oxytocin wouldn't have affected the size of the pups but our Vet just thought that as the litter was on the smaller size, she didn't produce enough of her own Oxytocin to push the other pups out after the first pup she had. Unfortunately we lost our last little girl but she was very tiny so I wasn't really suprised :(

She was scanned and they saw 5/6 so our Vet wasn't far off with the amount he saw.  I was relieved there wasn't loads of pups in there though ;)

I was just asking really thinking ahead, of if it was a high chance of happening again, I obviously dont want to risk her health or that of any unborn pups, so I was wondering whether to just have her spayed sooner rather than later when I am able to do so :)

Good luck white lilly with your pups :) 

I always thought the size of a litter was apart from environmental factors, down to how fertile the dog or bitch is and on what day you catch her on.

Id be over the moon with a litter of 5 I don't think its that small but then I am comparing it with bullies who 8 is considered on the larger size for a litter

I have had 3 litters

1/ 7 puppies - delivered naturally no intervention required
2/ 3 puppies - c section required
3/ 9 puppies - delivered naturally no intervention required

Coincidence or not, we will never know!  I would agree with the others though that 5 shouldn't be a problem in terms of number.  Good luck, hope it goes well for you.

Only tiem one of my own bitches had a C section at 6 1/2 was for a smallish litter after a 3 year gap from the last litter, she had a long first stage and was gettign tired, so we secioned and spayed her, we lost 1 of the 4 pups.

I have had quite a few litters of four with never a problem though.

Thank you for all your posts. My main concern was really not the amount she had, just the actual size of the puppies.  They were half the weight of our previous litter from these puppies Grandmother about 5 years ago. 

Well given what you have all said, I think there is no reason to rush and have her spayed when the pups are older.

Thanks all :)