wondered at what age do you all consider entering Limit( unless of course you have won yourself out of PG and have no choice) . I have noticed a lot of people in my breed jumping from yearling into limit and giving PG a miss making Limit a massive class with lots of mixed ages...

I have just entered my first champ show as limit, and to be honest am totally confused, would be great if there were clearer guidelines! My dog and I are new to showing although she has just been three, in the open shows I put her in the lowest groups I could - postgraduate, but when she came first in her class, another owner said something along the lines of "not suprising they judged in age order" which made me feel like we had cheated by putting her in a low class, so I hope I wont get told off now she is in limit!

I've been showing a young bitch in Limit this year and doing quite well but not well enough - so hadn't yet won out of Post grad.

I dropped her down to PGB at WELKS and she won it and the RCC so coming out of the 'wall to wall green card' Limit class worked or me.

> My dog and I are new to showing although she has just been three, in the open shows I put her in the lowest groups I could - postgraduate

Wasn't there a novice class?

If you set aside the age classes Minor Puppy-Puppy-Junior-Yearling if you have few wins, you could go in Novice then win out of that in to Grad or PG. In well populated breeds Limit is like a stacking class for those with CCs and RCCs but not quite enough for open... a very hard class to win in some breeds.
Unless chasing a Junior warrant, there is little point putting a novce dog in higher classes IMO.

And as for the 'other owner' envious people often open their mouths and let their bile spill out :-(  Take no notice!

> I have noticed a lot of people in my breed jumping from yearling into limit and giving PG a miss making Limit a massive class

Some folk in my breed do that aswell, i think it does depend to some degree on your breed or even the amount of entries.
My breed get entries of 20 to 30 in the latter 2/3 classes so it pretty much of a lottery if the 'right' classes is opted for.
In my breed I would probably class limit at 3 or 4 & open is 4 or 5 & older of course (other than the wins which have to be accounted for in limit).  As usual there is those dogs that do well, at a young age and have to be in open at 2 or just over.

If you take an average show person, doing 3 possibly 4 champ shows per year with one dog, and the owner religiously sticks to the 'win out' classes, it would take at least 4 years for a dog, consistantly winning his classes to reach Limit.. so I would think 4 years old is about the Ideal..

However, as Tooolz already said, you may be up against CC winner and RCC winners,

As a fairly newcomer, I would stay with Post Graduate or lower until you feel comfortable enough to to enter Limit

> "not suprising they judged in age order

oh dear, sour grapes.. it happens, ignore...

In Post Grad it is highly unlikely that the judge would ask the dogs age, so their is no way of knowing  how to 'judge in age order'.. sounds like you won on merit .. well done :-)

we have recently come out of junior and won our way out of novice,so where possible we are going in graduate,yearling or post grad where possible,though timo is nowhere near as mature as most of the post grad dogs,so i think we'll be lucky to be placed in post grad this year-some of the dogs are a couple of years older than him! glad we qualified for crufts 2011 at crufts this year now!

Kayc
I am of the same thoughts  but have noticed dogs around 2 & half jumping into limit and some in open not all winning themselves out of PG or limit . I have a RCC (my girl is 3 & half) but still feel my girl is not ready for Limit for a few months yet but dont want to appear to be staying in PG to be the older dog as she is in the main cosistantly placed , we dont do many shows...Looking back a few years at the results around 4 was when people moved up to limit.
I do wonder if this is a bit crafty to fool the judge :)

I like PG and keep my girls in there for as long as possible, I think it is sometimes easier to 'shine' in PG than fight everyone in Limit, many of the youngsters my latest girl was up against went straight into limit  - I think they try to fool the judge into thinking they have a CC lol

Not sure why you would move a young dog into Limit, same judge so what is the point - if you have a dog that is over mature or has not won out of PG by say 4 years there may be some point but to move a youngster seems pointless to me but perhaps people have their reasons but I can't think what.

It can depend on breed numbers too. In champ shows I try to stick to Grad and post Grad.  But in open shows were there is sometimes only three classes jr, Limit, and open. and not many of my breed coming on the day, I put her in limit and open. Because I know there may only be a few dogs turn up and I want to help fill the classes .

My girl needs another win to move up to Limit, but I will stick in PG until she wins out as at 2 1/2 she is still far from fully mature and will look out of place in Limit I think.  In my breed, PG always tends to be a big class whereas entries into Limit seem to vary wildly from show to show.

> It can depend on breed numbers too.

We found this too. Even at Champ shows we sometimes found ourselves with the choice of Puppy/Junior or Open with an occasional veteran in imported register! As a result most dogs were in Open at 18 months regardless of wins etc. I didn't even realise that people thought there was an age where you should be in certain classes, I usually went with the no of wins rule in Bernese classes, although we did enter Post Graduate rather tha Graduate as I simply don't remember there being that many Graduate classes. I suppose in breeds like Labs, goldens, GSD's etc where the classes are huge there are more likely to be more classes offered but I don't think we ever had much more than Puppy, junior, PG, Limit, Open and Veteran with a very occasional graduate or special yearling thrown in.

Out of interest...We have yet to take my friends Dobe to a champ show, she has just turned four, do i show her in post grad?

Think this depends on how much showing the dog has done, if experienced then I would try Limit but if not you would be better in Post Grad or even Novice if that is possible. An inexperienced dog in Limit would be noticeable as most by then are fully aware of what is expected of them unless they happen to be very young high winners.

I wouldn't go as low as Novice for a 4 year old of any breed, no matter how in-experienced the dog is. Novice is used by alot for puppies as a second class & a mature dog will deffinately look out of place. I would put this dog in no lower than Post Grad myself.

I try to leave mine to qualify out of the respective classes wherever possible, wether that's age or by wins. It can back fire (when our Yearling dog won a CC and ended up in Limit at just 2 years old - in a coated breed - not always a good thing). However, it depends on the dog themselves. I've seen some junior Beardies who wouldn't look out of place in Limit - whereas our owm youngster is as baldy as anything just now.
I can't see what a decent judge would be fooled by though? Just because a youngster is in Limit? Only a rubbish judge would pay any attention to that - and surely put up what they liked anyway - regardless of age? (Okay - some may be fooled etc - but that's not the type of judge we'd want to go under anyway).

Kay

> Think this depends on how much showing the dog has done, if experienced then I would try Limit but if not you would be better in Post Grad or even Novice if that is possible. An inexperienced dog in Limit would be noticeable as most by then are fully aware of what is expected of them unless they happen to be very young high winners.

She has only been to one Open show :) so will go into post Grad.
Thanks

Beardieokay
Nice to have your thoughts Kay ...thanks

I also think that by the time limit comes, the judge tends not to ask ages(same in open) therefore judges what they have infront of them irrespective of age.

> I also think that by the time limit comes, the judge tends not to ask ages

That is where when you have had a yougnster that has doen really well (like Inka) then they can look somewhat out of place against the mature individuals in Open, whcih is where she now has to go.

That is why I have decided to do fewer shows this year, allowing time for her to really mature, then hopefully a litter in early spring and after that she can get fit and see what she can do as a 3 year old..