My 18 month old flattie has a very curly patch at the bottom of his back near his tail. I suspect this means that he wouldn't win any prizes, which we don't mind at all, as we aren't interested in showing him, but I wondered if this is at all usual. All the flatties I have seen, in the flesh and photos, have, well, flat coats! He also has a lot of chestnut coloured hair on his ears. His father was liver coloured - would this be the cause? I thought that they were always just one colour. He's a lovely tempered dog and we don't mind at all that he doesn't seem to quite fit the 'standard' but I would love to know if ohter flattie owners have similar variations.

When you say curly, do you mean as in wavy/fluffy, or tight curls like a poodle?

I am no expert so am speculating a bit, but I know the golden and flat coat were bred from the same dogs originally, the 'traditional' (can't think how else to put it) labrador head is much more flattie like than 'lab' like, and retriever breeds were interbred well into the 20th century, and I wonder if it's some sort of throwback - the curly-coated retriever I suspect is similarly related (don't know) and they are curly all over the body.

Wouldn't have thought it's due to the liver sire. Have seen a lot of flatties, though never seen what you're describing. There are a few Flattie people on here who are well up in  the breed (Polly/Jo spring to mind) and will know more than me. Other thing I was going to ask, was - is he castrated? That can affect coat - I've seen some fairly curly goldens who've had their jewels removed.

Would the hair on his ears be because his coat has been bleached by the sun and this tends to redden black hair?  

Also at his age he may be about to throw his coat, and black coat when it dies can look rusty, especially in the feathery areas.

> may be about to throw his coat

Good point, didn't notice the chestnut ears bit on first read. Suddenly thought of the fact that there's meant to be Irish Setter in Flatcoats, but yes, the dead hair on the ears that needs stripping often does have a browny look to it.

The red brown colour on the black coat is perfectly normal and it appears more obvious as the coat dies and the dog sheds his coat.

As to the 'curly patch' on his rump it is a lot more common than you might think looking as pictures! The breed standard only requires the hair to lay as flat as possible and I know several who have a real swell of wavy hair over the rump. I have also seen one which was very curly haired all over his body. some dogs have unruly hair and as they mature it seems to straighten out more.

The curls can be tamed, and many show folk will use a special coat which they put on the dog immediately after bathing to encourage the hair to lay flat.

Even if he is too curly coated to show, there are still many other options open to you as a flatcoat owner. They really enjoy using their brains. (Yes they have one not all are scatty). Many flatcoats which are shown are also worked in the shooting field but if that is not your choice of activity there are a number competing in agility and obedience these days.

Are you a member of the Flatcoated Retriever Society? If not and if you really want to do something interesting with your dog I would recommend you join the Society, we have experienced FCR folk who already compete in obedience, agility, tracking and shooting. Showing is not the only discipline you can follow with a flatcoat, which is really very useful as there is nothing so pleasurable as watching a dog work, using its mind and thoroughly enjoying itself.

http://www.flatcoated-retriever-society.org/

Does he swim a lot? I find mine, especially the youngest goes the same way after a swim and I have to make sure it is combed flat before it gets completely dry or he gets a fluffy bum. It does drop after a few dry days, if he manages that.
The hair on his ears is as other posters have said just dead hair and I usually strip this out either by thinning scissors or a stripping comb.
I have seen plenty of dogs in the ring with a less than perfect flat coat that do well. As long as he enjoys life that is the main thing, fluff bum or not.

>As to the 'curly patch' on his rump it is a lot more common than you might think looking as pictures!

I know loads of labs that also have a wavy area on their rumps when the coat is meant to be totally straight. Even one of my dals had it!

Many thanks everyone. He is in the water most days as the River Teviot is at the bottom of our garden - he loves to wallow like a hippo! We do brush him after he comes in but his rump is determined to stay curly. They aren't tight curls - it is as if the hair bends back up towards his head. As I said, we aren't really bothered about it; we think it gives him character, and we had never intended to show him. I already take him to dog training - just the KC awards at the moment - but I hope to try agility very soon now that he's old enough. I wouldn't say he's the sharpest knife in the drawer but he has learnt fairly quickly, if you can get him to concentrate rather than wanting to play with his friends (lol), and he loves his training sessions. Before the winter started in earnest I had taken him to some gundog training and I would also hope to try that again, as I think it's important to nourish their natural instincts. I stopped because it's a long way to travel and the roads were treacherous.
As a novice dog owner, I'm afraid to say I didn't know anything about having to 'strip' his ears. They do look  a bit untidy, but I thought that was just how they are supposed to be. Advice on how to do this would be appreciated.
He has just been castrated by the way, but his coat was curly a long time ago!
He's a fabulous dog - we don't care how he looks really - and I can really recommend this breed to anyone.

Not a flatcoat comment, but something I have noticed in golden retreivers, my golden retreiver (who is blonde) has a very thick, soft coat, but not as long as the last golden retriever's coat that we had, I do love long haired dogs and kept waiting for Jasper's to grow longer but at 4 years old I think if it was going to happen it would have by now :)   My collie/retreiver cross is much longer haired than him but much finer too :)

Coincidence, we are on the Tweed!!! If you are interested in showing him come along to Selkirk ringcraft in the Victoria hall on a Wednesday night, 7.30. I could show you how to tidy up his ears even if you don't want to show him as it is much easier to keep them free of debris when stripped.
I am on duty this week if you decide to come along.
Small world

There's a Dachsund (spelt wrong I know) that comes to our training club and he has a very curly coat bless him.  Of course my gang all have curly coats and swimming them helps it to look much crisper and curlier.

My Cavalier insists on getting little sticky up bits at his back end, a drying coat will just about get it mostly flat for a show but by the evening the curls are back!

Polly is quite right - you'd be surprised how many flatcoats have this curly rump, which is tamed for show, usually by dampening and putting a coat or 'sprout bag' over it!

The brownish ears are quite likely dead hair, which will come out with brushing/plucking, or when he moults.    There is a chance that he does actually carry a brindle gene in his makeup, which you can test for if you really need to know!    If he does, you get patches/streaks of a rather fetching bronze colouration (not dead hair) on a black dog, which you would pay a fortune for if it were in the hairdressers!!!   It's nothing to do with having a liver sire as far as I know.

Jo

Sounds exactly like my pup, as Jo will vouch! His coat is gorgeous, thick, black glossy...and wavy! I was told it wasn't correct for showing, but I'd rather work him anyway so don't mind. Our other flattie has a very flat coat, but it's the wavy one who attracts the attention and admiration wherever he goes 'ooh, hasn't he got a lovely coat' etc ;-)

If you want to know more about correct trimming for a flatcoat there are plenty of people in thebreed who are professional dog groomers and many like Ann Youens will do demonstrations if asked. If you contact Ann I am sure she would be happy to help you with this.

Sorry so long to reply - I've been away then busy, busy; you know how it is!
I would really like to meet up and be shown how to groom Raffi. Weds isn't a great evening for me as I should be going to Pilates, but I could always miss one session. HOwever, I wonder if it's appropriate for us to come to Selkirk as I'm not going to show him, definitely. Where are you? We are at Roxburgh, just outside Kelso. Look forward to seeing you, hopefully.
Thanks everyone for your interesting comments. I have a much better understanding now.

I am near Selkirk . It wouldn't matter if you were wanting to show him as all are welcome at training but if you want to meet up somewhere else that would be OK. I could come to you some evening if you want.
I am going to Flattie gundog training at Edinburgh on Sunday, is that where you were going for his gundog work?
Feel free to drop me a PM for where you would like to meet and gt the hairy beastie sorted out!!

It would be great if you could come out one evening - we have loads of space for dogs to have a good play.
I was actually going to Eshiels Gundogs near Peebles but I had noticed the Edinburgh sessions, which has just reminded me that I haven't renewed our membership!
Apologies for being dim - what does PM mean?!

Check your user set up, I have sent you a private mail

I have sent you an email - the PM thing does work!