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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / handrearing a litter
- By jokelly [gb] Date 24.04.10 15:48 UTC
Our bitch had a litter of 10 a week ago.  We have lost 4 - 2 very small ones and 2 unexplained seemingly healthy boys.  The bitch as virtually no milk and I am feeding 6 pups every 3/4 hours.  All gaining weight, some better than others.  Has anyone reared a whole litter by hand?  If so, any tips?  This is my first (and last!) litter and I feel as though I am swimming uphill!!  (In mud!!)
- By JeanSW Date 24.04.10 16:06 UTC
Mum would be feeding them more than every 3/4 hours round the clock.

Most people that have success handrearing feed every two hours day and night.  Have you got them on a heat pad?  They can't digest food if they are too cold.
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 24.04.10 16:15 UTC
Yes.

It is very hard work, because of the 3 hourly feeds day and night.   You can make up feed for 24 hours and keep in the fridge, this saves a lot of time.  All utensiles have to be thorougly washed and sterilised between feeds.

The puppies should be weighed daily, at the same time and usually before feeding, so that you can then note any pups that are not gaining enough weight and give these puppies extra attention/food.  If any puppy stops feeding or is limp and cold, it needs veterinary treatment usually antibiotics.   If a puppy is dehydrated you can pick up the skin between thumb and forefinger and it tents, i.e. it does not spring back, any pup like this needs rehydration either by the vet or by yourself offering extra fluids.   The puppies should feel warm, round and solid, and make contented noises and move in their sleep.  If they are not getting enough milk they get cold, milk in their tummies helps to keep them warm.

If the mother is not cleaning the puppies they need to be encouraged to urinate and defaecate using cotton wool and dipping in warm water and wiping around the rear and until pup passes urine and defaecates. 

If the mother is not in the box with the pups they need to be kept warm, if they are too cold they will  huddle up and cry, if too hot they usually spread out away from each other, well fed pups are contented, pups that constantly cry have a problem.

At around two weeks of age when eyes begin to open you can introduce a suitable puppy porridge made into a very sloppy gruel and offered to the pups several times a day, but still offer them their bottle  3-4 hourly.

At times you will want to give up - don't , it is so worthwhile, but it is the nights that are the worse.   You will find that if you sleep near the pups on the settee it will be easier to get up in the night..

Best of luck.
- By ANNM172 [gb] Date 24.04.10 16:19 UTC
Sorrry to hear your sad news re your puppies. You will be very sad.
As Jean said puppies really need to be fed every two hours on whelpi or similar following the instructions for the weight of your puppies. Weighing them every day will help you see a clear picture of how they are doing? Is mum still happy to clean them and make them toilet?- If not you will have to do this too using damp cotton wool  area. Hopefully someone more experience than me will give you clear step by step instructions. Are you still putting them onto mum to encourage her milk to come?
The puppies will need to be kept warm and away from draughts. Are you using heatpads/ lamps?
It's very hard raising a litter of puppies even when things go well. Do you have a mentor in the breed who will help a while or another exhibitor with a recently whelped bitch who may be able to try to foster a few and make it easier.
Good luck - I hope the remaining puppies pull through
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 24.04.10 16:37 UTC
Should also have said that 2 hourly feeds are usual for the first week.   But it should tell you on the formula that you are using the strengths to mix and how often to feed.
- By jokelly [gb] Date 24.04.10 16:40 UTC
I feel as though I am taking one step forward and 100 back!  Losing the pups during the weeks was awful but with a litter of 10 I was expecting to lose some.  Have just got back from the vet with one pup who is feeding well but has developed a lump on it's rib cage.  Has had antibiotics and going back in 24 hrs.

Am feeding the pups every 3hours as they are getting a little from mum and the vet told me 3 hours is fine - from what it sounds like, I should be doing it 2 hourly.  They are warm and cosy on a heat pad and settle to sleep in a bundle on their backs with their tongues out!! Am weighing them twice a day and they are now gaining well. Mum is cleaning them and is letting them suckle but they get tired from the effort and go to sleep!  She is trying hard to be a good mum but does seem unsettled and pants a lot.  Has been thoroughly checked by vet.
- By jokelly [gb] Date 24.04.10 16:41 UTC
We are in to week 2 today.  have calculated formula amounts but am giving them a bit more if they are still sucking.
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 24.04.10 16:51 UTC
Sometimes even though mum does her best, they do not always keep them clean enough and occasionally they can develop septic places, but the antiobiotic will sort it out.

I give mine enough so that they fill up like hot water bottles when you hold them up, full tummies.   As they grow and strengthen they will take the milk quicker.   It seems that you are doing everything right.   It is that you get tired from lack of sleep and everything becomes a struggle, but you will be okay, surprising as it seems, and you will look back and be amazed how well you have coped.

Keep us posted.
- By jokelly [gb] Date 24.04.10 16:54 UTC
Thank you so much.  I am a wreck but am trying to keep it together for the children!
One other question.  The bitch is having fun in the garden and is definitely happier when she has been out - is it time for a proper walk?
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 24.04.10 17:00 UTC
Hi again,

Breeders may differ on this, but I never take my bitches out to where other dogs have been when we have puppies, it won't hurt her to stay in the garden and play out there.   I do not like to take the risk in case I bring any diseases back in, I feel, and it is just my personal opionion that it is not worth the risk.

My bitches never want to leave their puppies and would be stressed if I took them away when they are at such a young age.

Don't despair too much, I know that at times it is hard, are the children old enough to help around the house!!!??
- By jokelly [gb] Date 24.04.10 17:02 UTC
That was what i felt about germs - especially as we seem to be struggling to keep the pups alive!!  The girls are 8 and 12 and have been brilliant - far more philosophical than me!
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 24.04.10 17:05 UTC
That's good then, they seem like well balanced young girls. 

No doubt someone else will come on shortly and offer more tips for you.  I am going to sort my dogs out now.   Hope all goes well when you take the puppy back to the vet tomorrow.
- By Ells-Bells [gb] Date 24.04.10 17:10 UTC
Where are you?  My girl has just delivered a small litter and has so much milk...
- By jokelly [gb] Date 24.04.10 19:27 UTC
Near guildford, surrey.
- By jokelly [gb] Date 24.04.10 19:30 UTC
Thanks very much.  They are good girls.  I am dreading the trip to the vet tomorrow but what will be, will be.  have found a local lady who is a working cocker breeder and she is coming over tomorrow to have a look and give me some moral support!
- By JeanSW Date 24.04.10 23:18 UTC
I second dogsdinner.  My girls don't go out when they have pups.  I am paranoid about them bringing anything in!   But I do have enough space for plenty of exercise if they want it.

As someone else has mentioned, my girls don't want to be away from pups for very long anyway.
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 25.04.10 05:46 UTC
Pleased that you have found someone to come over and support you, it will make a big difference.   Keep us updated on their progress.
- By jokelly [gb] Date 25.04.10 09:51 UTC
All put on a good amount of weight in the last 24 hours.  Their Mum appears this morning to be taking less interest in them.  She is unsettled and wandering around.  I keep latching them on in the hope something may happen but within 2 minutes she is up and out of there.
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 25.04.10 09:56 UTC
Sounds like they are progressing well.   If mum is not interested do not forget to make sure that they pass urine and defaecate, and keep them clean.  It sounds that mum is not that interested.
- By white lilly [gb] Date 25.04.10 10:23 UTC
some girls just arnt ment to be mums :( and to me does sound like your girl could be 1 of them, ive always been told that if a girl behaves like this not to breed her again and have her spayed ,1 of my girls had a litter and didnt have much milk she didnt eat a massive amount and wouldnt drink much to start with ,she never had much milk and was so stressed all the time ,i had her spayed ,wouldnt go though that again ,its hard work isnt it :( and heart breaking when you start to loose pups)!
but we dont know till they have them do we :( ,good luck with the rest and im sure they will i do well now x
- By jokelly [gb] Date 25.04.10 10:50 UTC
I couldn't go through this again and I think you're right - she just isn't a natural!  We can't all be though.  Can anyone give me some advice about how I go about weaning them when the time comes as I am handrearing them?   They will still need to be fed regularly but not quite as often? 
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 25.04.10 12:12 UTC
Each breeder will do it slightly different.  My way is as follows:

1.  At approx 2 weeks when the eyes open and they are up on their feet.  Still give them the bottle 3-4 hourly but introduce a suitable puppy porridge mixed with water (before mixing the water should be boiled and allowed to COOL and mix whilst it is still warm), the consistency should be like a runny porridge.   Offer this to the pups 2-3 times daily to begin with.   Some pups may not want it, others will most probably dive in.

2.  After feeding each pup will need cleaning and drying.   I use unscented baby wipes, just throw away after use, and a clean, soft towel after each feed.   If they are not dried well they will cry and grizzle until they warm up again.

3.  If they pups are taking this well in another 2 days I offer the puppy porridge 4 times a day (they will still be receiving the bottle 3-4 hourly).

4.  At three weeks of age I have them on 5 meals a day, still with the bottle (pretend the bottle is mum) by now if you give the last bottle at about 11 p.m. they should be able to go until about 3 a.m., then start breakfast at about 6.30 - 7 a.m.  

If they are crying in the night you will have to get up and bottle feed them.

Gradually increase the amounts of food being given as per instructions on bag.  The weight gain should be steady.

5.   Don't forget to worm them - consult your vet when to give the first worming as they have had a slow start no sense in upsetting them.   I use liquid Panacur, some people manage better with the paste.  Under normal circumstances I worm at 2, 5 weeks and just before them leave me during the 7th week.   Your vet will supply you with the wormer (although it can purcahsed at a reasonable cost online).   But you will not be using that much with 6 pups, so should not cost too much from the vet.

As the amount of solids is increased and as they get older you can lengthen the time between the bottle feeds.   I like my pups to be completely weaned by 7 weeks of age at the latest if on mum, you should be able to do this much quicker with bottle fed pups, just see how it goes.  

Hope I have not forgotten anything.
- By jokelly [gb] Date 25.04.10 12:45 UTC
Thank-you SO much - you really have been a tremendous help and a great support.
- By dogsdinner [gb] Date 25.04.10 13:12 UTC
Glad to help.  Can remember when I hand reared the first time, there was no internet and not a great deal of help anywhere in those days!!

The guidelines I have given your are only approximations, you may well find you have to guage what they need, amounts etc., can change daily, even within the same breed, different litters require slightly different amounts etc., if not hungry drop the amount being given down, and if they seem ravenous, increase the amount.   You will soon get the hang  of it, and be an 'old timer', and then you can pass on your experience.

As they get bigger the feeding becomes easier, but still a lot of work for you to do.
- By LucyDogs [gb] Date 25.04.10 20:18 UTC
No advice, but just to say how much I admire you and your girls for putting in so much work - I had a small textbook litter with a perfect Mum last time and I shudder to think how many millions of times harder it must be to have to handrear!
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / handrearing a litter

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