This may sound a rather strange question but does anyone know how dangerous it is for dogs to drink out of muddy puddles?
Our park is full of craters filled with rainwater and my 8 month old puppy, Mikey, has been drinking out of them. There are supposed to be lots of rats in the area and someone told me today that she's been warned not to let her dog do this as they are in danger of Weil's disease from the rats.
Should I see my vet about this or is there a test he can be given?
Sorry to sound like an anxious mum but....I am!!

I remember there was a thread somewhere on here a while back and whatever it said made sure that I didnt ever let my two drink out of puddles when they are out walking. Not sure what it was now but I am sure the more expert here will let you know :)

Gina

My uncle got Weils disease from cleaning out a ditch at
the bottom of his garden. Its very dangerous to humans
and he nearly died. But thats all I know about this.
I dont really know about dogs and the disease.
Nutkin

The usual dog vaccination and boosters include Weils (Leptospirosis). So your dog should be OK
Ja:)kie

Edit once I found a book so I could spell it correctly

Not necessarily Jackie :(. The lepto vaccine is probably effective for less than 12 months. The degree of danger depends on where you are and I imagine how long the water is standing. I wouldn't think that water from puddles is too much of a risk as they aren't around long, but ditches and so on are probably best avoided.

Do you mean, not necessarily if the dog is not boosted, and if so how often should it be done, my vet told me every 12 month, is she wrong, if so I'll do it more frequently. Or did you mean that the vaccine does not work well anyway?
thanks Ja:)kie

Edit for more info: As a matter of interest is there a vaccine for humans and does the time that an individual, man or dog, has antibodies differ to any extent, one from another.

Hi Jackie, it works, but for less than 12 months. We are the same as you in that there are more cases of lepto than parvo. I only give the main booster once every three years now, but I get a single vaccination for lepto every spring. Leptospira are bacteriae, and so easier to kill than the virii that cause distemper and parvo, so the main risk is during warm weather.

The recommendation for cattle is: ......Ideally the [primary] course should be completed in the spring before the main season of transmission...
Booster vaccination: It is recommended that subsequently a single booster dose be given annually........Should the initial course be given at a time other than the spring, the first booster should be given in the following spring and annually thereafter.

A different form of the virus (L. harjo) is more prevalent in cattle and cattle are often infected via cuts. Maybe that's why the cattle recommendation is different from the canine one, but I think it may just be that farmers are more likely, not only to vaccinate, but to do the vaccinations at the correct time.

The other problem is there are several strains of the disease and the vaccine only protects against one of them, Ingrid

Is this true? I know it is of KC, would or can you point me in the direction of more info please. Ja:)kie

Hi Jackie, afraid so. The trouble is things called servovars. At least 8 have been reported and in dogs. Disease associated with some of them has been increasing in the US so it might be here too. But the common ones in dogs - canicola and icteroheamorrhagiae - are covered by the vaccine.

Hi Jackie, here's a link for you, http://www.labbies.com/lepto.htm
Ingrid

Hi Jackie. here`s a link for
Lepto
Christine, Spain.

I'm really interested here. My Westie loves drinking from puddles and i never gave it a thought that it could be dangerous for him. Fresh rain water an all that. He also loves to drink from the grab holes in the iron drain cover at the back of the house. He always makes a bee line for this after it's rained. He's done this for months. What are the signs of this disease.

Maggie.

Dullness, Loss of apetite and fever. Vomit, black diarrhoea, sore patches on the skin, jaundice. I wont go on because if you dog has had it's vaccination it will be protected.

In my district it is more common than Parvo - according to my vet, with whom I was discusing it only yesterday.
Ja:)kie

I know some body who had 3 dogs with Weils disease, because of Rats, the vets assumed they urinated in various places and the dogs did indeed suck it up some how. All the dogs were vaccinated, all had good titre levels when tested, but all were confirmed as having Weils disease. The dogs were very ill, but all eventually recovered.
Dawn.

Think it is the recovery that is important. We lost a very good friend with it taken ill one day and dead 7 days later, and wonder if he could have been vaccinated if he would have lived. Jackie

Hi
No, after long consultation with my mother (cos mothers know everything, right?) You cannot be vaccinated against Weills disease. Dont ask me why, since dogs can.
My mum, as i have previously mentioned, is a pest control officer, and the only safety methods she can take, (apart from the obvious like washing hands etc) is to carry a card saying that she is more likely than most to have contracted it. This is so doctors can check if she has it if anything happens. Apparently the problem with Weills disease, in humans, is that whilst totally curable in teh early stages, it looks like nothing more than bog standard 'flu. So most people wouldnt even think of it being possible fatal, until it is too late!
So, if you are in contact with a lot of rodent urine,etc, make sure that people around you are aware that you may get it, and what the symptoms are etc.

Emma
(one thing that has me slightly worried, if humans cant be vaccinated, ie, there is no safe vaccine for us, then exactly how safe is the stuff we are putting in our dogs each year?)

Emma, unfortunately the canine lepto vaccine causes more adverse reactions than most. If I lved in an area where leptospirosis was rare I'd probably give it a miss but as it is the risk from the disease out-weighs the risk from the vaccine, imperfect though it is. When I was a child our Minister died from Weil's disease and it happened just as you say. He thought he had bad 'flu until he was seriously ill.

Hi Emma, was just about to say what Sharon said, it`s the one that causes most problems.
Christine, Spain.

My husband works for the waterboard and he said all manuel workers
are injected against Weils disease.

Pam

Okay guys,
How much risk is there of my pup catching Lepto, from a) swimming in a fast(ish) flowing river, and b) swimming in a feeder canal?
The feeder canal is fed from the river, and feeds three ponds, the water flows quite quickly through this, and then out into the river again.
I have not once seen a rat down there, though i have seen mice, and water voles.
I must add, i have no intention of letting pup swim anywere for the forseeable future (he's not yet got to grips with running yet! Im d*mn sure he'd sink anyway!) its just a reference for the future. My dog swims in both places, he is fully vaccinated. My bitch doesnt swim, and is not vaccinated, (she had a very nasty reaction last time, adn being a rescue, i suspect she had been over vaccinated, so i wont be doing it).

Emma

IMO yes all water holds a risk as does the land around water. Rats and mice have no control over the passing of their urin and it dribbles away all the time, infecting any place they pass over or through in the case of water. Jackie

Hi
Sorry to hijack the thread, but does anyone know if Lepto vaccination is required for a dog coming from Canada on the PETS scheme?

Thanks
Jessie

I believe it is Jessie, contact DEFRA for more information

Their number is :

PETS helpline +44(0)870 241 1710 (08:30 to 17:00 Monday to Friday)

Thersa

Jackie,
Cheers for that, in that case, young Dill is having the lepto bit of the vacc.
Worryingly, the stretches of water that my dogs swim in are also used by a canoe club to teach people to canoe, and there are often kids in and out of teh water, sometimes every day in summer.
What sort of risk are they at?

Emma

Hi Emma, heres a link about Lepto in humans. Typically only about 8 people in the UK get it per yr.
http://www.caving.org.uk/wdic/
Christine, Spain.