Hi

We are on the verge of possibly getting a Welsh Collie (curtosy of my other half) but to be honest I do not know much about them and want to get some more info... are they called Welsh Collies or Welsh Sheepdogs?

Whats the difference between a Border Collie and a Welsh Sheepdog/Collie?

I believe the Welsh ones are much smaller? Any help would be really appriciated, I realise they need lots of attention and exercise, which is no problem, as behind me are plenty of fields and nice hills and canals to walk along etc.... One thing, with them being a herding breed, would they chase sheep?

My Yorkshire Terrier is a complete nightmare with sheep, ducks and chickens!!

Just to add, the person who owns this dog has lung difficulties, so can no longer look after it and give it the attention she requires, so that is why (since we were looking for another dog) we thought we would give this one a nice active home. It wasnt the breed we were initially looking for, hence why need a lot of information, have read on the internet, but wanted to try get information from someone who has one or has had a lot of experience or knows about this sort of breed.

Also, just to add, the dog is white, not that it makes much difference!! :-)

>Also, just to add, the dog is white, not that it makes much difference!!

Make sure that it has been properly hearing tested. White collies can be congenitally deaf, which can make training them more difficult.

Ohh that i didnt know... I know when Alan has seen it, its really obidient, really well trained and can do tricks etc... so i would of thought that from this he would have noticed if it was deaf? Ill double check with this though, but as far as i know this is fine... I have not seen the dog yet, however when i was looking up pictures online i couldnt seem to find any white ones... are they actually in the breed standard kind of thing?  hope you know what i mean by that! As they seem very rare?

White collies used to be culled by farmers as they didn't think the sheep reacted to them as well as their coloured counterparts. There is also the worry of sight or hearing problems so they shouldn't be bred for specifically - but they do crop up. My first border collie came from a very well known 'one man and his dog' competitor. We were on the list for a pup, when they were born we went to see them and he said unfortunately there wasn't anything for us this time...we were leaving when he said he did have a white pup... if we were interested. We got her for a fraction of the price, all white but with two black eye patches. What a brilliant dog she was too, lived till she was 18.

Good luck with yours, taking on someone elses 'don't have time for it' collie can be a huge amount of work as this normally means they didn't have time to train or socialise it either.

however when i was looking up pictures online i couldnt seem to find any white ones... are they actually in the breed standard kind of thing?

There is no such thing as a breed standard for a Welsh Collie as they are not a KC recognised breed. :)

A friend of mine has 2, both red & white, the red is more a sandy/gold colour. The younger one is deaf even tho she is about half & half on colouring. I will ask her tonight if I can pass her email to you for you to pick her brains about them. She does have some livestock (a few sheep, couple of goats - I think_ and some feathers but I cant remember what) and is taking both to shepherd class
There does seem to be a certain amount of differences between the breed (welsh sheepdog) and the Border Collie.
Chris
edited to add site link

http://www.welsh-sheepdogs.co.uk

Thanks Tigger, just double checked and her hearing is fine, and eye sight, she has been trained really well, can do all sorts of tricks (which isnt really priority,but its nice) and gets on well with dogs, cats, children, everyone, she has a friendly temperament and is obidient which always helped and also house trained.

Ohh i guess the sheep would think it was another sheep haha, if its white only a cleaner colour LOL, there are a lot of sheep where i live and i just wouldnt want her to dart, however i guess thats something i would learn to accept and put her on a lead when nearby, as thats what i do with sparky as he is terrible! They used to take it out, its 3 years old, however since the lung problems, and his wife working all the time, its impossible to take the poor thing out, therefore we said we would take it and rescue it. He said if there are any problems we can take it back (which is always a good sign!) so hopefully she will be ok.

Ohh i didnt know they werent a recognised breed... so that explains quite a lot me thinks :-)

Ohh that would be fab for the information, i have just been informed my other half is bringing her home tonight! She will need spaying though, as Sparky will do his best even tho he is only tiny!!!!! LOL

Does anyone know an average cost of spaying, as i have always had male dogs or dogs that havent needed doing due to being bred

Thanks Tatty-Ead ill take a look at that site, think i found that one on google, but ill take another look at it.

Can the dogs suddenly go deaf, or would they just have been born that way? I mean for the white ones, would it be just as likely for say my yorkshire terrier to suddenly go deaf, as the white collie? or is the risk higher in the collie?

>Can the dogs suddenly go deaf, or would they just have been born that way?

They're born that way. Many dogs (like people) will lose their hearing in old age, but dogs that lack pigment are quite likely to be born with hearing problems in one or both ears.

Yes she was born deaf but they didn't realise  until she was about 3 month old.

> Can the dogs suddenly go deaf

as far as I know it would only be if caused by a medical problem, genetic deafness will be present from birth.

I did have a pointer/whippet who went deaf when you unclipped his deaf-aid (it seemed to be built into the clip on his lead :-D )
Chris

Ohh thanks, makes sense, so should be fine then i would have thought, quite excited if i am honest, just hope Alan realises what he is letting himself in for! Lots of hard walking and attention! My sparky is bad enough, always wanting to get out for a walk, which he does, but this one is going to need a lot more attention i can see :-) They will both have some company though which is nice as Sparky is used to lots of dogs and he is the only one now where we live, so will have a nice pal

> I did have a pointer/whippet who went deaf when you unclipped his deaf-aid (it seemed to be built into the clip on his lead :-D )
> Chris

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

> Also, just to add, the dog is white, not that it makes much difference!! :-)

My first Collie was a white, and the most biddable boy in the world.  His one ear was blue merle.  No hearing problems, and a temperament to die for.

I would have another in a heartbeat.

I believe true 'welsh sheepdogs'(and not just border collies from wales!!) are bigger than border collies but think this can vary as they dont have a typical breed standard to be bred against.

With regards to chasing sheep. Any dog, no matter what the breed, is capable of chasing/worrying sheep. It is down to the individual dogs training, but no matter how trustworthy you believe your dog to be, imo they should always be on a lead around livestock.

I think this bitch is quite small, she is probably just a bit bigger or maybe a similar size to a cocker spaniel... probably larger actually, but not by too much, she isnt as big as a border collie... well thats what i am told anyway!

I know about the sheep, i have to really watch sparky, as his nose sniffs the sheep sometimes before i see them! So get him on a lead ASAP, so that wont be a problem, he is usually really well behaved too, until he sees a chicken or a duck etc and then he is off!! like a shot and totally ignores me, otherwise he is really obidient! thats the cocky yorkie coming out tho isnt it!

thanks i think i have managed to gather quite a bit of info, so should be ok :-) quite excited now!! xxx

I too thought welsh sheep dogs were bigger that BC's? My working sheep dog (not a bc becuase she isn't registered) is tiny compared to most collies but she is definately bigger than most  cocker spaniels. Border collies do vary greatly in size, some are deliberately being bred smaller for agility whereas some are huge. I would be interested to see a picture of her as i wonder if she is just a white working sheep dog?

I have a bc who i got as a young pup, i had no previous experince of the breed but new they needed alot of exercise and were bright dogs.  I walk my dog for a hour to a hour a half twice a day and he heards anything that moves lol, small children, my cat but its the blackbirds that are hes favoirte,he just cant help himself,its insinct. Although i thought i was perpared and dedicated to lots of long daily walks what ever the weather i was not perpared for the amount of mental stimulation border collies need (i fink its the same for the whole breed not just mine lol but i could be wrong) im told he will melow in middle ge,phew! lol .My bc needs lots of things to keep him busy, ie- toys,games,learning new things all the time) he does sit down and chill if i tell him to but he would much rather be active and doing things, hes alot happier if he is. if u dont stay on top of bc need for exercise and mental stimultion some can become alittle mischeifious. I have foud the bc to be very loyal and great fun to have and although mine can be very challenging i wouldnt change it fr the world. best of luck x

> was not perpared for the amount of mental stimulation border collies need

Totally agree with this need!  And would go as far as to say, that, in an unworked dog, it is more important than hour long walks. 

My boy is never happier than when I have given him something to work out.  Hiding things was great at first, until he found it too easy!

He now has to work out how I got it in there!  They thrive on mental stimulation.

Well we got her last night and it think she looks like a border collie, although her head possibly looks like a welsh sheepdog/collie... but i would class her as a bc anyhow!
She was sick on the bed last night and weed on the rug! But that was just nerves from coming all the way from Chorley to Littleborough where i live, and i think nerves as its all different for her isnt it

I need some advice, but ill write it in a new board as i think it will be more appropriate on the behaviour board

Thanks everyone, we took her and sparky for a massive hill walk on the moors last night, we enjoyed it and she loved it! Sparky already needs probably more exercise than her(well you would think he does as he never stops, just like the collie, Tessa!)

xxx