When do you take the bars out of your whelping pen the ones that prevent mum rolling on the pups, my pups are 3 weeks old and quite active all are walking and playing and do sometimes think its a good idea to investigate the gap between the bars and the sides of the pen!!!!

About three weeks when they're all up and about. I'm always frightened they get their heads stuck between the gap.

I have never used them, the only time I lost a pup after an long labour with bitch and I exhausted and both fell asleep the pup that was crushed was in the middle of the box under Mum.

I have seen pups get stuck under and especially get heads stuck with pig rails, a bigger risk I feel, so I just try to be vigilant until pups eyes are open, by which time in my breed the danger is past.

I take them out at about 2 weeks with our breed, i too am scared the pups will get stuck behind the rails.

I don't ever use them.

I've seen others that have a low shelf, about 4-6 inches wide, the whole way round the whelping box, which seems safer to me than pig rails.

Don't use them either, have seen pups get stuck behind them.

dont use them with the breed i have now either.

I use them and find them really useful with my breed as they are very clumsy mothers!! I usually take them out at about 3 - 4weeks.

3 weeks for us.

I've seen others that have a low shelf, about 4-6 inches wide, the whole way round the whelping box, which seems safer to me than pig rails.

This is what I have in My box they just stay there all the time. The pups love them as they get older and use them as a step to get up higher to see over the top of the box!! We had pig rails to start but at some stage they always managed to have heads just the right size for getting stuck so we did away with them and the shelf idea works really well.
Aileen

PS They love to snuggle up under the shelf...my heavy coated breed is never cold and to see them in a heap is unheard of!!! They look like a row of little black pigs all spread around the box under the "Shelf"

Have never used them either...but i would agree that the shelf seems a safer option.

my mum in law used the shelf type ,her pups got stuck under them all the time lol so after seeing them like that i wouldnt use them and hers were a small breed too

Thanks the shelf does sound like a better idea tho,I have taken them out now and all seems to be going ok.