I have a 2 year old border collie who iam very much devoted to and 6 months ago i was attacked by a man while walking my dog in the woods,my dog was repeatedly kicked by this man and ever since hes behavior has changed and he has become very protective of me and ver jumpey.2months ago i was at a friends house and my dog was play fighting with her border collie an my friend pushed my dog out her way on the back off hes neck and my dog nipped her hand slightly and my friend kicked him and my dog run away and hid and as he did my so called friend kicked him,chased him upstairs cornered him and put a towel over hes head why trying to grab him round the neck it was then that he bit her and left a open wound to her hand. I asked her to leave him alone so i could deal with it but she wouldnt listen to me. My dog was so scared and was just trying to get away from her. My friend is now over two mnths later saying that my dog bit her when she pushed hes neck to move him why he was playing with her dog and that a new x-ray has shown her finger is broken in two places and she is reporting him. I cannot prove my dog didnt bit her from just being pushed by hes neck and that he actually bit her after being kicked,punched,cornered and a towel put over hes head. she has got her partner to back her story and iam beside myself with worry that my dogs going to be put down and i dont no where to turn for help or advice and everything ive read online bout dog bites controdicts itself. please could anybody help or point me in the right direction or offer me advice on what could happen to him

Hi , first can I just say I'm sorry you are in this situation this lady doesn't seem like a very nice friend.
I don't know how you kept your hands off her when she was kicking your dog , I know what she'd get if she even tried to kick one of my dogs!!

For advice regarding your dog biting and her having someone to back her up I'm not sure . There is a dog law expert called Trevor Cooper who has his own website , you may get some information off , I know he has an advice line open monday to thursday evenings which you can call and ask for advice , but then you'd have to wait and worry all weekend.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than myself will be along soon to give more advice.
I hope things work out okay for you.

Firstly I really hope your "friend" is no longer your friend and secondly I think it likely that whoever they report the incident to wont take a great deal of notice as to wait 2 months to decide to complain is ridiculous. I would be very sceptical that your dog broke a finger at all. Choose your friends carefully from now on.

thankyou 4 ur kind words, I would of liked to kick her and corner her but that would of just made me as bad as her.their r some nasty people out their. I dont  no if im at fault in anyway in this hole situation, im certain my dog wouldnt bite if in any situation other than the one above but was he wrong to bite her for what she did?

my friend is no longer a friend lol.dont worry about that. i do hope ur right in ur thoughts roscobabe

I personally don't think he was wrong to bite her , as I see it as him simply defending himself!
Other members may have other views but at the end of the day she kicked him whilst in his own house.
Your right retaliating would make you as bad as her , but on the spur of the moment I would've done as I have quite a short fuse! especially when my dogs or my child are concerned.

given that he was kicked to within a inch of hes life when i was attacked in the woods i feel her kicking him scared him out of hes mind and this is why he reacted as he did. people who abuse animals grrrrrrr! they are the lowest of the low it makes my blood boil,it really does. I expect everybody will have different views on this matter but im just looking for some knowlegde as to were to turn for help as i really am so worried that my dog could be put down over this,it would break my heart. i have looked at the website u said cani1 so thanks,monday morn i will be onto them if i cant get anywhere over the weekend

I dont think your dog was wrong to bite after he tried to get away from being attacked and bit when backed into a corner with no escape from being kicked. Poor dog must have been terrified. If you do have a visit from police or dog warden (which I doubt) simply stay calm tell them calmy exactly what happened AND when it happened. Your dog cannot be taken from you and destroyed just on the say so of this person.

This lady does have mediacl evidence that she has been treated for a dog bite which worries me alot. She really is a nasty bit of work,i regret even knowing her,guess we all make mistakes. i will stay calm roscobabe,ive wrote everything down that happened i think ive done my own head in reading to much online about dangerous dogs being put to sleep.I just feel because its my word agiast her and her partners im in trouble. I offered to take her to hospital after the bite and she was ok about it then and itwasnt a problem and she laughed about it but because ive withdrawn my friendship slowly because of what she did she has thrown all this at me. im to old for all this sh*t, i just dont understand the nastiness of some people.

> I just feel because its my word agiast her and her partners im in trouble.

It is just your word against hers which is why nothing will happen. None of this was reported to the police at the time of the "attack" .You had no police coming to speak to you at the time of the "attack".It's only now two months later that this person is making threats. Your dog bit when under extreme duress and if I have read your post correctly did no serious damage. This person is for whatever reason being just plain malicious and I would not waste time being worried by her, Your dog cannot be taken off you by anyone without a court order and there has to be a serious attack for legal action to be taken. The police have to present the facts to the crown prosecution service before they can procede and trust me the cps will not give their consent to any action based on the facts as stated here. You practically have to commit murder in front of them and sign a confession in blood to convince them to take you to court lol

lol at having to commit murder and sign a confession in blood, that made me smile,a first for today lol.
My dog left a small puncher wound in the palm of her hand,no bigger than a crumb and no deeper either but she is now stateing she has a broken finger in 2 places and nerve damage and has the mediacl eveidence to back it up which i dont understand at all. she is a hypocondrate (sorry bad speller) at the best of times and goes to hospital for a runny nose which is why iam worrying, i think she could convince anybody red is yellow,she is being malicious u r correct all because ive withdrawn my friendship because of what she did to my dog, If my dog had bit her and left this wound because i lacked control over him and he was a aggressive dog i would completley understand her reporting him or me but this wasnt the case at all. this is just making me feel so anxious and down and court/police/proceeders all them scarey words lol ekk!

Trevor Cooper is the way forward. :-) As is a good - and I mean reputable APBC/APDT dog behaviourist who can probably, firstly help your dog, and secondly show that you are being proactive.

My understanding of the law (DDA) is that that does not apply on private property - there was a case near me last year of a dog that attacked a child so they had to have stitches, and the owner refused to have the dog euthanased - the police were powerless as it happened in the dog owner's house. I am no expert though, there may be other laws, civil cases can be taken (though I think they would question things like why she waited 2 months, any witnesses....). Realistically, the police are interested in serious attacks (which this does not sound like), genuinely dangerous dogs - it costs money to take things through courts and they are unlikely to want to if it's not necessary. Not really advice, as I say I am no legal expert - more reassurance - was it a big wound, did it need stitches?

The other case I remember in the local paper relatively recently involved two children walking dogs - one had let the dog off lead, it attacked the other dog, and a child inadvertantly got bitten in the leg in the fight. It was on the street so in public - the court order for that was that the dog had to be kept on a lead and muzzled when out.

Don't know if that helps any.

Purple - Why is she reporting it? I'm just interested in what she hopes to gain, we're not in America where our healthcare is not free and so she is spinning a tale to get you to pay hospital bills if not insured enough. Is she trying to sue you, is that what this is about?

Actually I would report her for cruelty, you asked her not to kick your dog and she carried on. You must have felt very intimidated by her to allow her to bully your dog like that, I'm afraid my maternal instinct would have turned me into a lioness if anyone had touched my dog like that. You can't allow her to carry on bullying you like this, get some help.

Contact doglaw solicitors, (trevor cooper, thanks munrogirl) and explain exactly what happened it may be worth doing so (have you got insurance) if so check your contract often a solicitor is paid for via the insurance and if the woman wants to take you to court insurance will cover 3rd party incidents too.

Please do not worry that your dog will be pts, he won't be (((big hug))) your dog was intimidated and bullied, put your side across but better still via a legal body, she won't expect that don't worry about the husband backing up his wife. Unless the police wish to take this to court, which when they hear your side is extremely doubtful, your friend would have to take out a private prosecution again doubtful, so don't worry. (She says)

To be honest I'm much more worried about the effects this is having on your dog, to now twice by kicked and hurt and by someone he probably trusted the 2nd. See if your insurance (I really hope you have insurance) will also cover a behaviourist, the poor dog isn't going to trust anyone now, and he is going to bite first next time, who could ever blame him.

Get help for yourself and your dog, turn this around on her.

All the very best, give that poor dog of yours a big hug, I feel so upset for him.

It was not in a public place so the DDA does NOT apply. You would however be in your right to report your "friend" to the RSPCA for the treatment of your dog!

The website address: http://www.doglaw.co.uk

It says in the dog papers he's got some low cost seminars coming up, I hope to attend one -it is always useful to know the law regarding dogs.

she is reporting it because she is a nasty spiteful person who cannot deal with me ending our friendship because of her treatment of my dog and she knows that lyric,thats my dogs name means the world to me and she is hurting me through him. hes a remarkable dog even with everything he has been through,i have chornic illnesses that have made me so ill and lyric has been so threapetic to me in so many ways,u could say hes given me a new lease of life and helped me build up my physical strength from a big fat 0 to a big fat nearly 10 lol. it wasnt that i was intimadated by her it was just that i couldnt get to lyric before her and if i hadnt got to him when i did eventually i hate to think what else she could of done. he has been affected by things and become very protective of me and our house he also has began to be very aware of peoples feet and looks at feet rather than faces. other than having a daily battle to gain back pack leader and be hes protecter not vice versa and of course lots of hugs and kisses im not sure how else to help him. Their are no hospital bills to pay and iam not insured ekk! but money does not matter to me in all this, i will pay what ever iam faced with because lyric is worth more tham any amount of money to me. i have looked at trevor cooper website and will be ringing first thing monday morn.like u said carrington i will try and turn this around on her. thanks for all ur kinds words,very much appreiated x

i will do just that marianneb, tks

the proactive idea and a behaviouist is a great idea and can only help me and lyric. this did not happen in my own house though,it happened in her house which is worrying. thanku for your ideas tho

Do you know Purple after reading subsequent replies, the time limit since reporting it, that is the biggest factor here, the fact as Marianne has stated that it was in a private residance you were invited to, so won't come under the DDA. The fact that she pushed your dog away from hers and put her hands on your dog, (if that is the only part she tells) that was her choice to touch your dog, even when two dogs are fighting, obviously showing aggression whilst doing so and someone gets in the middle of it they risk the chance of a bite. None of this will go anywhere, there is no substance to any of it.

I love your dogs name by the way. :-)

DDA Watch can also help, they have a dog solicitor there too and know the DDA inside out!
http://www.ddawatch.co.uk/

If you do go to a behaviourist this will go very much in your favour if it was ever reported to the police, and after being handled like that by your 'freind' I would say your poor doggy does need some behavioural help now to make sure he doesn't harbour a grudge.

It does seem that many breeds, if they have ever once been put into a position where they have had to guard their owner - such as you described with the initial attack - do become extra-protective afterwards.... something that must be dealt with by a good behaviourist, APBC or similarly qualified. I know myself that you can sometimes never avoid situations coming from other humans that change your dog into being guardy and protective, not matter how well socialised or well trained he may be beforehand. If you don't address it, it does get worse. It's almost usually the most trusting, happy social dogs that have such a crisis when someone acts abusively; it destroys their faith in certain types of people, and they need that trust re-established.

Good luck! I am about to embark on something similar myself with my dog after we had an experience which has now made him untrusting and protective to the point of being aggressive, towards people of a similar age & wearing similar clothing to the ones we encountered.

carrington u have just sumed this whole situation up in that one sentence, uve hit the nail right on the head, you are so right in what u have just said in ur last post. u really have made me feel so much better(tks :-) ive just got myself in a right old mess over this today,ive never been on one of these forums b4 and all u people have all been so kind and helpful to me i mite just stay lol.  I will most defintly be choosing my friends more wisely in the future

I think u are right mstemeraire, it needs addressing as it must of affected him very much and him holding a grugde is very possiable and its not something iam that knowlegable about and a expert would be a wise move to rebilatate lyric. im sorry to hear of ur bad experince and wish u all the best on what ur about to embark on, do u mind if i as what happened? u dont have to anwser that just would be intresting to hear how u get on

glad u like the name carrington. lyric is different and that was what i was aiming for and my passion for music lol

I will most defintly be choosing my friends more wisely in the future

Don't worry about that either, your not alone, I've certainly over the years had people turn out to be wrong ones. It's a part of life unfortunately. Just to add, I wouldn't take any calls from this woman, talk to her in anyway and if she turns up at your door close it in her face, you don't need to communicate with her in any way.

I know we all wish you and your dog all the very best, let us know how you get on. :-)

> do u mind if i as what happened? u dont have to anwser that just would be intresting to hear how u get on

Nothing near as scary or bad as you describe with your attack - just some intimidation from local yobs that lived next door for a while and would shout/throw things at my dog over the garden fence on a regular basis, and also verbally abused me as well on a couple of occasions when I was in my garden, so he felt duty bound to protect me from them. They also owned a dog that got through the fence and tried to attack mine. It means he is now very suspicious and unpredictable around any male teenagers of the same age/appearance when we are out & about. He's a very intelligent dog, which is as always a double-edged sword - quick to learn everything.... including what you don't really wish for!

PS: also agree Lyric = lovely name :)

I have already had to change my number to stop her threats and abuse and i wont be opening my door to her or talking to her agian,this made her angry and added fuel to the fire but i had to do it,it was the right thing to do. I will keep u posted, take care :-)

wow--amazing your dig didn't do her more damage! How terrifying for your dog, after all it had been through, to have some screaming kicking stranger race after you to get you in a headlock with a towel.

why on earth didn't she concentrate on handling her own dog and let you deal with yours? I'd have been tempted to give her a good kicking myself!

I don't think you have anything to worry about other than your choice of friends--poor you and your dog.

im sorry to hear that sad sorry,hope u have better neighbours now. must of been very hard because you cant really get away from ur neighbours can u, they are their 24/7 so must of been very tourmenting for ur dog,bless! intelligent dogs=double-edged sword and something u have to be constantly aware of and on top of, wish u all the best on ur quest,let me no how it goes, take care :-)

lol yes i have a poor choice of friends,something ive learnt the hard way and something i will be extremely wary of from now on. if this has made me doubt humans my god what must lyric think of them. gna get that dog some doggy threapy for sure,bless! funny enough jay15 she thinks shes some super dog trainer and her way is a good beating. im going to report her to the r.s.p.c.a, the more i think about what she did to lyric the more mad it makes me and i keep seeing hes little scared face as i was trying to get to him and him to me, makes me sad :-(

> funny enough she thinks shes some super dog trainer and her way is a good beating.

Ohhh let me guess... watches Cesar Millan...? Or learned training about 20 years ago? either way, it's not good. It seems common to meet people with the same mindset, and if they are wanting to bully your dog then they might also have a forceful effect on the owner (hmmm that Dominance word again!).

> I have already had to change my number to stop her threats and abuse and i wont be opening my door to her or talking to her agian,this made her angry and added fuel to the fire but i had to do it,it was the right thing to do. I will keep u posted, take care

You can actually  get court orders against people who harass you to that extent - restraining orders. I think you would get much further in law than she ever would!

try never learnt any training just thinks its a no it all and yeah a bully. she has a history of bullying me,not because im weak because im soft and forgiving but not nomore. havnt really looked at it like that before but c it now,if she wasnt dominant over me she would never of done what she did to lyric

she can lie i cant, a liar always gets further than honest folk these days

Just sending  you some support. Not sure how far you are from Ruckinge, but an excellent behaviourist is Anne Bussey, she is apbc, here is the link to their organisation: http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions Anne used to live within driving distance from me, and she is really good.

I'd also suggest contacting Justice for Dogs, as well as Trevor Cooper, in case they can help.

I hope you are OK and have other support?
Please give Lyric (beautiful name, by the way) a gentle stroke from me.

Lindsay
xx

> she can lie i cant, a liar always gets further than honest folk these days

You are so right there (very sore point at the moment for personal reasons). It's just that if she is going to keep harassing you - keep a written record of what she does and when, if she does things like turn up at the house, get a security camera to put up for records.... I hope you won't have anything like that - but if she won't leave you in peace, those are the sort of ways to get evidence together.

And I don't think I ever said, because I was busy trying to calm you down - I know what it's like to have someone threaten to get your dogs put to sleep, I have had someone do it (no biting/ aggression/ involved) - and it makes you panic like nobody's business - I hope you and Lyric can get through the trauma and that neither of you has any long term problems from the abuse you have had.

thanks for ur response lindsay and ur support. ive looked at the website u recommended and its alittle far from me but it has given me much needed advice and i have contacted a couple of simaler orgnisations in my area and they have been really helpful and said that everything that has happened would of affected lyric and that it would be benifical to him and me to get some help in reguards of hes protectivness of me and our house and hes growing mis-trust in humans as it could become a big problem so i have somebody coming to see us next week. I passed on that gentle stroke to lyric :-) X

You are right munrogirl it makes u panic bigtime. When ur animals mean so much to u somebody bringing harm upon them through sheer spitefulness it sends ya brain la la.
All the threats and abuse i had been recieving from this so called friend just got me in a mess. everybody on here have been so helpful and nice it really calmed me down and i was able to makesome sense of everything. it was wen carrington said that its been over 2 months since it happened and that the DDA did not apply on private grounds and because my friend had invited me into her house and put her hands on my dog while he was playing wit her dog it ment she choose to get in-between two young boystious play fighting dogs (if that was the only part she was going to tell) so according to things i have read online that would not be grounds to label a dog dangerous. I have spoken with somebody at trever coopers and waiting for a call back just to check that the above is correct so i can stop worrying about things and get some sleep(havnt slept all weekend). me and lyric will be fine,we have eachother and wont let nasty people get us down.

People can lie munrogirl and it does seem them people get further in life than honest folk but just remember its us honest folk that have piece of mind,morals and we are worth so much more than any liar.its easy to lose sight of them important quailtes when faced with a nasty liar who seems to be doing so well in their crusades(whatever they might be) keep true to urself. hope ur sore point works out ok in the end) x

Thanks Purple, and I'm glad things are looking better for you. :-)

I passed on that gentle stroke to lyric  X

That's lovely, thank you! I bet he is a beautiful boy, and he clearly means the world to you :)

I think you will be OK and it's good you are getting some help, just make sure that whoever you see uses modern up to date methods and you wil be fine! I really feel for you and I think you are right in that at the end of the day, it's much better to be honest and have personal integrity, than to be a horrible person who is probably very insecure and a bit stupid!

Best wishes
Lindsay
xxx

Firstly 2 months seems a long time to diagnose a finger broken in two places and given that time scale how could it be shown that this injury relates to the incident ?
Sorry to bring this point up regards DDA and public places but during the time I worked on a dangerous dogs contract to the police there was an incident of an owner being prosecuted under the DDA for his dog (pitbull) not being muzzled in public, the dog was at the time in owners car
but court ruled this to be accessible to the public so a precedent has been set in law that though on/in private property it can still be deemed as "public" But I feel in this case it would be hard for "friend" to procceed further given time scale and her actions towards dog, it is just a pity you hadnt reported matter in regards her actions at the time, anyway best of luck hope everything works out O.K.
On a more positive note a judge is not compelled to give more weight to evidence of 2 people than to 1 person, as part of my above work I have heard a judge comment "the plot thickens" during a trial when it became apparent that 2 witnesses were saying exactly the same things in exactly the same way, he then highlighted this in his summing up and dismissed the case, a judge will listen and then decide whom he finds the more believable, they know partners will tend to back up each other and take that into consideration.
Fingers crossed for you and your baby
Stan Berry

> the dog was at the time in owners car

Cars count as public places (seems ridiculous to me but true) under the law - houses do not. The only breeds they can do anything about in a private house are ones banned under the DDA.