I have a pup of mine (Now 3 years old) living with a lovely lady in Guersey. He has recently evolved some dog agressivness, mainly to one dog...a ridgeback who's owner has a shock collar on the poor dog. Now my pup has been castrated for over a year and this ridgeback will insist on mounting him and dominating him a bit. The owner of the RB has "shocked" his dog on more than one occasion while he was mounting my Pup and now My pup has taken a huge dislike to the RB...Possibly as he also has recieved a shock. It has made him very wary of other domminant dogs who try to play/mount him. Hopefully we have recognised the reasons for his (my pups) problem and are working on it with the help of a behaviourist and some training (Including not letting him chase about with her small breed dogs who will chase others in play). Basically he is a happy friendly dog but this problem with the shock collar...even though it is on another dog!! has upset him a lot. The owner is now being very careful to avoid this man and his RB but as she walks a lot on the beaches and so does he it is causing her some problems as the man with the RB seems to think that as his dog is "Under his control !!" all be it through pain he can do as he pleases!!!
One more reason to ban them forever....
Aileen

Oh Aileen how sad the poor poor dog.
Never mind what the ridgeback is going through for the sake of a lazy owner , if this is the only way he can control his dog he,d be better of with a goldfish.
Hope ypur boy comes out of this alright he should do with the kind of owners you let your babies go to.
Good luck with him
Sharon x

Never mind what the ridgeback is going through for the sake of a lazy owner , if this is the only way he can control his dog he,d be better of with a goldfish.

Maybe he found himself a trainer that promoted the use of shock collars and in his ignorance didn't realise what a dreadful mistake he was making :-( Joe Public doesn't always realise that just because someone advertises themselves as a dog trainer it doesn't mean they are a good one.

I recently saw a lot of shock collars on eBay, selling for quite cheap too :(

The current won't have effected your dog, The current will only cross the rb skin between the two contact points, it can not have touched your dog.

Your dog was probably freaked because he kept being mounted by the ridgeback. It sounds like the trainer is doing a good job with him though.

Adam

Speechless at you....

doing a good job - REALLY!  I dont' think so

I read your posts and it upsets me that you think dogs are better off being shocked - I think you should permantly wear a collar then maybe you will realise that this IS NOT the way to treat dogs.

Well said Rachelsetters!!! I totally agree with you!

Adam may I ask you who trained you how to use the electric collars? Did you do a course in their use or have you learnt how to use them from experience? Are there books available to teach you how to use the collars or did you just buy one and try it out?

You state you are a dog trainer and I was wondering where you trained and what qualifications you have earnt in your role as a trainer?

The current will only cross the rb skin between the two contact points, it can not have touched your dog.

I beg to differ there - if the electric shock collar was in contact with the other dog- especially if it was in contact with any metal parts on the second dog's collar - then I would have thought it was very likely that the other dog received a shock as well -bodies and metal parts on collars make very good conductors. If you stick your finger in a socket the electricity conducts through your body to earth - it doesn't just stay in your finger.

"Your dog was probably freaked because he kept being mounted by the ridgeback. It sounds like the trainer is doing a good job with him though.
Adam"

Hardly - the RR is still mounting the other dog so no training has been achieved!

I read it as Adam saying the trainer was doing a good job with YOUR dog, not the one wearing the collar.

Aileen did you mean Jersey?
I haven't seen any around here.....Do hope it turns out okay.
Karen :)

Yes sorry slip of the finger...or head!
The training my owner is doing will hopefully do a good job....as for the owner of the RR well wrds fail me!!!
Aileen

Ah....thats okay, although there probably are some around I haven't seen any thank goodness.
It is sad that anyone would resort to using them, don't know how I'd keep quiet if I were to witness one thats for sure.

Karen

Sadly, its the unducated, the lazy, and the miss-informed people who need to resort to the use of these collars..

Adam, you are very young, and by all accounts from other forums, not a recognised dog trainer.. and to advocate the use of certain methods, without knowing, or considering the reasons why certain dogs behave in certain ways.. cannot be justified...

You are obviously lazy, and training your dogs with fear and pain works for you.. how sad, and very misguided

Nothing is a quick fix. Hard work, perseverance, consistancy, and understanding the dog in question, whatever the bavioural problem is, is surely the only way to deal with problems.  

I find it quite scary Adam, that you can come on an open forum/information board, and advocate such a method, with a serious lack of knowledge of basics

Electric shocks, however modified they are, are barbaric.

I apologise if I have offended anyone other than Adam with this post.. but many people read these forums, and it has to be said, that pain and fear, is NOT the way to train ANY dog..

Well said Kay I could not agree more.
Sharon

Just wanted to again say well done on your post Kay, very true.  And you can't blame the BMD for getting uppity when being jumped on by another male dog especially if it received a shock aswell.

I meant the op's dog

On the e collar thing. I may be young but I've been doing dog training most of my life.
I used to feel the way you lot do about aversives and e collars. However I then found myself working with dogs in situations were the normal approach's weren't working. With these dogs I took advice from people into e collars and applied it to the dog in question. I was pleased with the results and have since researched e collars more and seen alot of uses for them.
It's important to think of rewarding the correct behaviour with the e collar by stopping the sensation (stim). When you think of it like this it open's up a whole new world of training with the collar. BTW I know using the term reward will upset people in this context. I'm not gonna take it out though lol.
The e collar used correctly causes only minor discomfort. Less than a head collar or anti pull harness, it's the controlablity of that discomfort and the remote nature of it that works so well.
Btw I've trained way more dogs without an e collar than with one, it's just a tool after all.

Adam

> it's just a tool after all

hmm.. as is the user

>However I then found myself working with dogs in situations were the normal approach's weren't working.

As do many of us, yet never found the need to resort to pain to control a dog (I wont use the word 'train' since its not training, it is control) 

>It's important to think of rewarding the correct behaviour with the e collar by stopping the sensation

Ah.. got it now, so that would be similar to rewarding the correct behaviour by stopping beating with a stick, yes?

>When you think of it like this it open's up a whole new world of training with the collar

I have thought about it.. a lot..  I dont want a whole new world opened up,  I live in the real world and I prefer working with mutual respect.. you get so much more out of it, and so does the dog :-)

>It's important to think of rewarding the correct behaviour with the e collar by stopping the sensation (stim).

The end of punishment is not the same as reward, any more than stopping banging your head against a wall; it's nice when it stops, but it merely returns you to the baseline. You get e-collar adherents who try to sell this fallacy to make beginners feel better about going against their humanitarian instincts, but it's a lie, just as they use the word 'stim' as a euphemism for 'shock' (and even concede that on their websites).

However I then found myself working with dogs in situations were the normal approach's weren't working.

I'm sorry but if you don't have enough skill or good enough timing or know enough about positive reinforcement to find one of the many ways around various problems without using aversives that scare/punish a dog then you do not have the skill required well to be using such a horrible device in the first place.

It's important to think of rewarding the correct behaviour with the e collar by stopping the sensation (stim).

It might be important to you to think of it as rewarding but what you are doing by using a shock collar is punshing the dog, there is no two ways about it - it is lazy training at best and abusive at worst and I don't necesarily mean abusive because of pain (which they do cause) try it around your neck and give someone else the controls and let them randomly press the trigger and then see if it's just 'stim' even that doesn't compare because you will have an understanding of what the shock is and why it's happening unlike the dog!  If you really think dogs don't find them punishing or aversive/scarey then I would forget going to the people who introduced you to shock collars and learn more about dog body language, signs of stress, appeasment gestures, avoidanceetc et  and then take another look at the dog you are giving a shock.

> On the e collar thing. I may be young but I've been doing dog training most of my life. <br />

If I may ask politely... how old are you?

> learn more about dog body language, signs of stress, appeasment gestures, avoidanceetc et&nbsp; and then take another look at the dog you are giving a shock.

I've recently seen a video on-line, it was to demonstrate how the trainer would find the correct level to use an e-collar, starting off at the lowest setting (apparently to find the lowest working level available - regardless of that fact this in iteslf is de-sentisation!).

At first this lab was sat there looking very happy, then the e-collar was used. Despite the bloke telling us that the dog didn't feel it, you could see a very small shift in the dogs appearence, he didn't look so relaxed and stopped panting for a moment (he had been panting proir, but not in a stressed way).

At the next level, the dog laid down, ears held a little more tense, licking his lips - the bloke still said the collar was having no effect!

The next level, the dog looked even more worried (slight shift in body posture) and started to lick at his paws and sniff the grass. The bloke said this was the level that was needed and could plainly be seen becasue it's the ususal reaction - the dog thinks it's been tickled by an insect

Sadly, for anybody who has not paid enough attention to the dogs bodylanguage would really believe this, as we know body language can be very subtle and to me (nowhere near as experienced/knowledgable as a trainer SHOULD be) that dog looked worried. I thought licking at paws/sniffing the ground (along with the general unrelaxed body) would be a clear indication of this to anybody with a basic knowledge of dogs body language.

It was very sad to see and clear that this is obviously the way many owners are getting conned into believeing shock-collars are not a bad thing :(

ETA Just remebered the most stupid remark in the opening ramblings os this video - " to thet the working levels of the e-collar on this lab, which is, to say the least COMPLETELY OUT OF CONROL' - ironically, the lab was sat behaving lovely on his lead!

The e collar used correctly causes only minor discomfort. Less than a head collar or anti pull harness, it's the controlablity of that discomfort and the remote nature of it that works so well.
Btw I've trained way more dogs without an e collar than with one, it's just a tool after all.

Are you talking from experience in that, I take it you have strapped one to your own neck, and had someone test it out on you on  all the different levels.