I know on here people often write about how contracts are not enforceable and just wondering if this is true? I am having problems with two of my girls fighting. Obviously I don't want to have to rehome one but if it comes to it I will as it will be better for the dog.
The one who is most likely to be rehomed has a contract saying she should be returned to her breeder if I can't keep her, but I am not sure this would be the best option for my girl. If I decide to rehome her to someone else can the breeder enforce the contract and take my girl back against my wishes?

Speaking as someone who has this as a clause in the contract, I would be absolutely horrified if an owner rehomed one of my breeding without my having any say in the matter.  New homes should be vetted in exactly the same way as the original home.  Courtesy would demand that the owner at least inform me if a change of ownership was going to be made.  If you signed a contract, you accepted as a conditition of sale that this would be the case.
It may be that the dog does not actually go back to the breeder.  It depends how urgent your case is, and whether you can manage the situation in the short term.  In the cases of the two of my breeding that came unstuck (one because of a move overseas, the other a returnee at age 6), I did not physically take the dogs back, as the rehomings were not urgent, but I was able to use the breed grapevine to help place the dogs in suitable, happy new homes.
If you have a new home in mind, then the thing to do would be to inform the breeder that you have found a new home for your girl.  I would expect that the breeder would want contact details for the new owner, and may even want a new contract with them, as rescue sometimes do.  I would be absolutely distraught if I didn't know where one of my "puppies" was - and what if a health issue arose and I needed to inform all owners?  How could I get in touch with them if you had passed her on without saying anything?

If you bought your girl right out and have full rights then because of this then you are entitled to do as you wish HOWEVER I think that would be very unfair on the breeder.  Most breeders are not control freaks and just want the best for any offspring.  I would at the very least call and discuss the problem and tell her you may need to find a very good dog free home for her.  She may be able to help find a home.  

Not really about this particular case but I meant to mention it on the last thread.

Despite having contracts, many people would lose a case if it came to court if the buyer of the pup claimed that they had insufficient time to study the contract before signing it.

On a day when people come to pick up their pup they have little concentration on paperwork and even keeping the pup out of the room whilst going through the admin, buyers could claim that they were too excited and it was all too rushed.

For that reason I always give all paperwork away to the people to study at their leisure well before they collect their pup ( by email if neccessary)  and then state in the contract that -they- the buyer had taken away -read- and fully understood the contents of the contract, with time to discuss it's contents.
My solicitor ( who wrote it up) advised that this spoke volumes about the breeder if and when it came to court.

** sorry to hijack**

Totally Tooolz.  

I always think first puppy visit is a good time to give AND explain their  contract of sale.   Being honest some I have read have been hilarious really.    

I bought a puppy years ago and in the contract it said this contract is  for the sale of a puppy dog it is sold as a pet only and not for breeding as we do not sell any dogs for breeding ever. It then went onto say that the breeder could use the puppy dog at stud whenever they liked  LOL it was a bitch.   The whole thing was quite hilarious.  She said it had been checked over by a solicitor.   I am sure she meant the solicitors next door neighbour.   It didn't worry me of course I was comfortable buying the girl LOL. I still have the contract and laughed reading it recently.

Vanhalla you as the breeder only and not the owner could not issue a contract to a another new owner. UNLESS real rights were passed back to you ie you buying the dog back even if it was £5 with a sales receipt.    

What would you think if M&S told you every jumper must be returned to them and must never be given or resold.   I know it is a big difference due to dogs being living creatures but they are viewed the same in legal iwnership.    It is so important to get the right buyers first time round.  Ie scood demanding people etc

>Vanhalla you as the breeder only and not the owner could not issue a contract to a another new owner.

Surely if the animal has been legally bought and ownership transferred then the new owner can issue a contract, in the same way that the registered owner (not just the breeder) of a dog, who has the dog in their possession, can have endorsements put on? Or have I misunderstood your post? :-o

I think blue means the original owner (the breeder) cannot put conditions onto a subsequent owner to the one they sold the dog to.

I am aware with my contract that I cannot enforce return which is why it is more like a suggestion/best option for all concerned, in mine.

"If through unforeseen circumstances it becomes necessary to find your dog a new home, you should contact me as I may be in a better position to find the RIGHT new home,........."

In the same way we cannot stop a person from neutering/breeding from their dog, that we have sold (passed ownership rights to) though we can through endorsements make the puppies unregisterable under KC rules.

>I think blue means the original owner (the breeder) cannot put conditions onto a subsequent owner to the one they sold the dog to.

Ah, I see. Yes, that'd be 100% correct.

Vanhalla you as the breeder only and not the owner  Vanhalla is not the owner now. Sorry my first couple replies were from my phone and I am a bit useless at the spacing on it :-)

Unless she ( the breeder)  gain real rights again IE buying the dog back or transfer of real rights back to her she cannot issue a contract as she has not legal right to.

If it gets to the point of rehoming I will discuss it with the breeder. and if she knows of a good home then I will consider that but I want to have the final say.
Her breeder has a lot of dogs, and keeps a lot of then in individual kennels. My girl is used to living in the house , with plenty of attention, training play etc. I hate the thought that she may end up living in a kennel for the rest of her life, which is quite likely with this breeder, particularly as she is not good with other bitches. If I can find her a suitable home as a pet I would much prefer that.
When I signed the contract my puppy was 8 weeks old. I had no idea how she would turn out and what her character would be. The breeder has only seen her for a few minutes a couple of times over the last few years. I am by far the best person to find my girl a good home as I know her inside out and can let prospective owners all her little idiosyncrasies. Her breeder knows none of these.
I do know that the breeder has kept a couple of dogs that were returned in the past and they have stayed with her and not been rehomed but have lived in kennels, physically cared for but, with 30 plus dogs none of them can have the care and attention given to them that I want my girl to have.

> If you bought your girl right out and have full rights then because of this then you are entitled to do as you wish HOWEVER I think that would be very unfair on the breeder.  Most breeders are not control freaks and just want the best for any offspring.  I would at the very least call and discuss the problem and tell her you may need to find a very good dog free home for her.  She may be able to help find a home.

Thanks Blue, I will discuss it with her but I don't know what her attitude will be. she hasn't been much help with the problems I have been having but it would make it difficult if we were to fall out over this.

Its a very tricky situation for you then,I can understand your concerns.I think I would probably put feelers out that you are looking for a home for her,then if a suitable one comes up contact the breeder and explain things and hope the breeder is ok about it as long as she knows where the dog is.I don't think you could rehome her without contacting the breeder first though.Good luck-I hope it works out.

Actually, I was thinking of the first returnee I had, who was transferred back under my name before rehoming.  I collected the dog and drove him to his new home, at my own expense, to save his owners any more distress.  It was bad enough for them that they were having to give up their dog to move overseas.

> I can find her a suitable home as a pet I would much prefer that.
> When I signed the contract my puppy was 8 weeks old. I had no idea how she would turn out and what her character would be. The breeder has only seen her for a few minutes a couple of times over the last few years.

I am sure the breeder would take this into account and work with you to help home her, not take over, it is not in her interest to do so, but often the breeder is better placed to vet homes and find someone suitable that understands the breed than a pet owner.

I had this situation recently with  3 year old male, I put various suitable vetted people in touch with the owner.  In the end they have decide to alter things in their lives enough so that he stays with them (change in working patterns and home situation), as they couldn't bear to actually part with him in the end.

I would not have dreamt of taking over, unless they had to have him gone from their home right away.  A smooth transition from one home to another is often the best way to go, and what breed rescues often do too.

I would have been msot upset to find out he had been re-homed without my knowledge.

> I would have been most upset to find out he had been re-homed without my knowledge.

I would definitely prefer to work with the breeder and am not planning to rehome with out telling her. Its just that I wanted to know who had the final say if we don't agree on where she should go. Can the breeder insist that I return her even if I find her a suitable home? I am not particularly expecting trouble but a couple of things have happened that make me want to find out what my rights are in case of a dispute.

As I am a her legal owner can I re-home her to whoever I want if the breeder disagrees for any reason?

> s I am a her legal owner can I re-home her to whoever I want if the breeder disagrees for any reason?

Yes you can.

Firstly it would depend on the wording,composition of contract and if you had been given time to consider its implications fully before signing.
If you just had some papers thrust in front of you and asked to sign them there and then when collecting pup you may have a point of arguement to proceed on, however if you were supplied a properly worded contract to consider in a reasonable time before purchase of pup then breeder would have a reasonable point of arguement in law if you had signed to say that you had a full explanation of the meanings and terms of the contract and accepted them.
I myself use a contract and am in the lucky position of employing a young lady as show handler/trainer (for health reasons) who is studying law at university and has had her lecturers check over my contract for an oppinion as to its legal enforcement.
Legal enforcement would be a last resort option only if the purchaser and myself could not agree a course of action that assured the dogs longterm wellbeing, the section on rehoming states they must first inform me and I will provide such assistance as is required in finding a suitable new home. If the owner had a "suitable" new home available that would not be a problem to me as the breeder and I would not enforce return of dog as long as I am aware of where the dog is to be and my commitment to any long term assistance would also pass to new owner as this commitment is firstly for the benefit of the dog. As a "reasonable time" to consider contract I provide a "sample only" copy of contract when it is clear that the enquirer is genuinely interested in obtaining a pup, usually a week or two before lodging any deposit and several weeks before purchase date then actual contract signed on day of purchase. Hope this helps
Stan Berry

I'm with you that I wouldn't wish for a house dog used to home comforts to be homed as a kennel dog with 30 others, it is a different life for a dog although they are all I'm sure equally loved, but understand your hesitation.

However, the breeder will have many, many, more contacts than you are ever likely to have, he/she will know lots of people in the breed via their breed club and rescue services and are likely to find someone suitable much quicker.

In your position what I would do is call your breeder, explain your problems and worries and ask the breeder to put feelers out for you, say you will keep the dog in your home until either yourself or the breeder finds a suitable home, your perfectly within your rights to say you want a home not a kennel life for your dog, it is your dog. But the breeder will care for her pup and want the best for it so please don't keep them out of the loop, it isn't fair to do that.

However, can you go into more detail as to why you have come to this decision how old are both these bitches, what exactly is happening, when, how, what causes it? Sometimes problems can be solved,  have you tried a behaviourist? What breed are the dogs? Sometimes there is no option but to re-home, bitches sometimes can not live together, but sometimes signals are just not read correctly and people panic.

Thanks, I have spoken to the breeder but she has not been much help with the problems I have been having. She seems to be blaming me for not being hard enough on my girl. Apparently I am not a tough enough pack leader which is why I am having these problems.

I have been working with a bahviourist who has been much more help, there are other posts on the behaviour board. I don't want to rehome my girl but if it gets to the point where I can't have them together at all without them wanting to kill each other then I will as I live with my dogs in the house and don't want to spend years keeping them apart worrying that a door not shut properly could cause serious injuries.

I will discuss it with the breeder but wanted to find out whet my legal rights were if we should disagree on what to do.

I only saw the contract when I  collected my puppy, but I did know that this was in there before I saw the contract. In principle I agree with returning a dog to the breeder and I have put the same thing in the contract for my puppies, it is just that I feel that the breeder in this case cannot offer my dog the quality of life she has now. therefore I wanted to know what the legal position is if we were to disagree about what to do if I can't keep my girl.

Caught up on your other posts helensdogsz, does sound serious doesn't it? Especially the last spat which took you several minutes to seperate the dogs, was there any blood at that time? If there wasn't, then it will have been a battle of wills and noise which is normal when two bitches are sqaureing up, looks and sounds scary but with no blood it is just dog talk with teeth and snarling and body language with a lot of noise so not really serious for dogs being able to no longer live together, to us it just looks that way. That last time may have sorted out heirarchy it's so difficult not being there to see the body language.

BC's are not timid dogs so I can imagine how scary it must look, they may well nip at each other but if skin was not broken and no bodily harm actually done I would hold off on the re-homing just yet. However, if it turned into a bloody battle with real bites then no way can these bitches live in harmony again.

I think there was a case not so long ago with regards to a Husky breeder who had contracts signed for re-homing purposes and had gone after an owner who had re-homed the dog anway, it went to court but the breeder lost if I remember correctly. So these contracts do not hold up in court. They are more of a moral contract than legal, once a dog is sold it is the property of that owner.