> 'd go for Cavalier or Border Terrier, have known a few SCWT's with temperament problems later on in life.

I ditto what Karen has said. In the 15 years I have owned the breed, I think I have come across two Wheatens with what you would class as a 'temperament problem'. I would be very interested to know where you came across these Wheatens and who they were bred by.

Don't know who bred them unfortunately!  Presume it's like every breed there are always bad breeders.

> > If it was just me I was getting another dog for, I'd go to a local rescue and choose an adult dog with the eyes that spoke to me,<br />Then why not do th same with your son, but look at adult bitches (so likely to be fine with your cocker boy who was used to a boss girl), from a shortlist of suitable bitches let your son and the dog choose each other.<br /><br />The other advantage of an adult of say 5 years is that your son is less likely to be leaving his dog behind when eh leaves home for Uni etc.

My son is 8 ... if he goes to Uni it won't be for at least 10 years!  He wants to have the opportunity of having a puppy, doing the puppy training etc. I think that is fair enough.  We've had rescues in the past, and no doubt we will again in the future, but on this occasion, it's going to be a puppy.  :)

The terrier x Heinz 57 that we had years ago, looked a bit like the dog called Lucky who is at the beginning of the movie Dr.Doolittle, though he had darker colourings (more like a GSD).  I only thought of that as my kids were watching the movie earlier this evening.  I wonder if that dog is part Wheaten. 

> My son is 8 ... if he goes to Uni it won't be for at least 10 years!&nbsp;

That was my thought with the average lifespan of many small to medium size breeds being 13 to 15 years a 3 to 5 year old adult seemed ideal.

Children of that age in my experience can some times find the puppy stage a bit like getting a new baby brother, they envisaged being able to play and do things with them right away, which with a new baby/puppy they have to wait for them to grow up, and many do not have the maturity to not loose Patience.

My Kizi who is now 12 1/2 was my daughters dog from a puppy, she trained her and showed her etc, she was 10. 

My daughter lost interest in things doggy in her teens, and left home two years ago, and often I found her erstwhile dog looking a bit bewildered as she dashed in and out no longer spending time with her.

I really would not recommend a beagle, all the beagle owners I know seem to spend hours sitting on benches just waiting for their dogs to come back!

Border terriers are fabulous wee dogs - tough, hardy, full of fun and with wonderful temperaments.

The whole labradoodle thing is a lottery, if you want an unknown quantity I would rescue one - as Brainless says a young adult bitch would be great. You'd know exactly what size and temperament she has unlike a doodle pup.

> That was my thought with the average lifespan of many small to medium size breeds being 13 to 15 years a 3 to 5 year old adult seemed ideal.<br /><br />Children of that age in my experience can some times find the puppy stage a bit like getting a new baby brother, they envisaged being able to play and do things with them right away, which with a new baby/puppy they have to wait for them to grow up, and many do not have the maturity to not loose Patience.<br /><br />My Kizi who is now 12 1/2 was my daughters dog from a puppy, she trained her and showed her etc, she was 10.  <br /><br />My daughter lost interest in things doggy in her teens, and left home two years ago, and often I found her erstwhile dog looking a bit bewildered as she dashed in and out no longer spending time with her.

Ah, I see what you mean Brainless.  To be honest, that doesn't worry me because although it will be my son's dog, it will also be loved by the rest of the family and there will always be someone to pay attention to it :)

> I really would not recommend a beagle, all the beagle owners I know seem to spend hours sitting on benches just waiting for their dogs to come back!<br /><br />Border terriers are fabulous wee dogs - tough, hardy, full of fun and with wonderful temperaments.

I hear what people have said about the beagles, which seems to confirm my concerns, so we won't be getting a beagle now.
With regards the border terriers and some of the other terriers, I'm still reading. :-)

Thanks

> Ah, I see what you mean Brainless.&nbsp; To be honest, that doesn't worry me because although it will be my son's dog, it will also be loved by the rest of the family and there will always be someone to pay attention to it :-)

This is exactly why I wouldn't let my daughter have a dog of a different breed than what I was breeding, her dog has always also been mine, she is our reigning queen bee (and part of my breeding line).

I have seen many parents in dogs get their offspring a dog that would not have been their choice or fit into their plans, only to find a few years down the lien the child looses interest or is no longer able to take an active role, so really any dog that is primarily for a youngster needs to be what the parents will be happy with long term.

My friend wanted to take 'her' dog with her when she bought her own house with her other half, but parents wouldn't hear of it, LOL.

When we were looking at other breeds, we told our son we would only consider a breed from the gundog group as we would be showing with our main breed in this group.  We also considered that he would probably want to take part in other dog activities and felt that we needed a breed that would be capable of this and not too difficult for a child to handle.  A Toller is a medium  breed of dog with a lovely friendly disposition who is always willing to please, as I'm aware lots of breeds are!  We have also found them to be very toy/food orientated which has helped with the training and my son finds her a joy to work with. 

I think that you have to be comended on your attitude to this, as this is a very important decision to make and you all have to be happy with the decision made.  Good luck in your quest.

Not easy when there are so amny nice breeds to choose from.

Breed standard for toller is 18 -20 and lab is 22 inches. Some people describe them as looking kinda like small goldies  only looking 

hope my description does not offend any owners.
Just to say that i agree with you expereince with some teens both my sister and my daughter had their own dogs In my sisters case an unsuspecting Mum and Dad found them selfves as dog owners in my case I was fully prepared for my daughter to love the dog to bits but not really take responsiblity for her so quess what I now have an adorable little dog. Not saying topsy boy will be anything like that and you allready are into dogs anyway unlike my parents  

Topsy

The quote button seems to be doing odd things recently - I'm not sure why!

Before you post,  delete all the xmins http gumph and just leave the first  >  in place

Thank you all for your suggestions.  I thought I'd update you.  I started to look at Tollers and they looked just right, but I couldn't find a puppy close enough to us, so then I decided to go for another cocker spaniel, and began to look for one of them.  But then ... :) ... I found my perfect puppy, and curled up at my feet at the moment is the most gorgeous little Toller x Collie puppy.   His mother is a border collie and his father is a pedigree Toller.  We've had him for just over a week, and he is absolutely delightful. :)