I have a dog who has several CACs and is a Dutch Junior Champion. Once she has passed 18 months , does she have to go  into Open. Tried to call KC but shut for hols and was thinking of last min entry for Bham which closes tonight?

I think you can go into Limit as the KC don't recongnise Junior Champion titles.

However I would seek further confirm from the KC when they open again, but if you need to enter a show this weekend play it safe and go in Open.

you could try the secretary Agela Mitcell 01206  391984 thenational@btinternet.com

A CAC counts as the equivalent to a UK CC so any more than two and you will be in open.

HTH

definition of limit is that dog is not a show champion, so if kc dont recognise junior titles .... will try sec

Mrs Mitchell was very helpful, she can enter limit.

This is a really interesting post. My young imported dog won 3 CACs in Finland and now he's out of junior I was wondering if I had to go in Open. Luckily, there have been a couple of special yearling classes so I've entered those. I did read the class definitions as meaning that I could go in limit, so it's a relief that someone else agrees :)

If it is 3 or more CC's (or equivalent) though they are out of Limit.

That's what I thought, Barbara, but it doesn't actually say that in the class definition! It says that they can't be show champions (well, he isn't as he hasn't won a CC equivalent after the age of 2) or have won 7 or more first prizes in all at Champ shows in limit and open classes (he hasn't done that as he only entered 3 shows in open in Finland)

I will contact the KC to confirm after Easter :)

Just looked at the Bath schedule and it doesn't mention 3 CC's, have I missed the change,a s I am sure I didn't imagine the 3CC's part of the definition????

This article: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=1216 on the KC website says 3 challenge certificates, changed to the current wording of show champion in 2007!!!

Taken From the Crufts Schedule:
LIMIT For dogs which have not become show Champions under Kennel Club Regulations or under
the rules of any governing body recognised by the Kennel Club or won 7 or more First Prizes in
all at Championship Shows in Limit and Open classes, confined to the breed, whether restricted
or not, at Shows where Challenge Certificates were offered for the breed.

I suppose a Junior Champion is not considered a full show champion by the kennel club??

It was nice and simple before with the no. of CCs. Nevermind

Darn Computer crashed and wouldn't let me fully edit. - I understand it now!
Since the KC changed the definition of limit so it is not dependant on the number off CCs, and for some reason they dont recognise Junior champions, then the dog can go in limit.
In theory then a dog could win 3+ CCs in puppy, and nothing after 12 months of age...therefore not becoming a champion. Then I guess they could go into limit until the qualifying CC.
Simple (i think)

The qualifications for entry to limit caught me by surprise too - I was expecting to have to go into open until I'd actually read the bumf in a couple of show schedules. I had thought it said 3 CCs so I'd missed the change too. Glad it has changed I must admit - at only 20 months my boy is still a bit young for open.

Ditto, with Inka, but she has her title so Open it has to be.

Surely if they have won CC's beating the open winner & other adults, then open is not too high??

Ah you would think so but when a dog of bitch wins it's class and goes in the challenge for best of sex, the judge sees a line of dogs at various stages of development, with only Limit and Open likely to be at full maturity.

He may then see your immature exhibit as outstanding for it's age, and choose to make it Best of Sec or Reserve Best of Sex.

Now this same young unfinished exhibit when it appears in the Open class will be the odd man/woman out in a class full of mature specimens.

This is often the reason some exhibitors will put away an immature exhibit that has had a fantastic puppy/Junior career, as they feel ti does their exhibit a disservice to be seen being regularly beaten as may be the case the following show season against all mature exhibits.

Others of us will continue to show for the experience and the fun but accept that the results will be less good, but may just do fewer shows with that exhibit.

But your dog has still beaten the mature adults, as you put it, to get the CC/CC's so has still beaten older/mature dogs

I agree with Brainless - I had that with Henry - he got a CC at 14 months of age, and at 18 months had to go into Limit and Open with the big guns, rather than working through PG. I don't regret the award though! :-D

> But your dog has still beaten the mature adults, as you put it, to get the CC/CC's so has still beaten older/mature dogs

Yes but in the challenge they will only be standing in line with say two mature exhibits, and the rest will be from the lower classes, in Open they are in with all/mainly mature animals, visually a different kettle of fish.