How common is it for mum to keep picking up her puppies and carrying them around is she looking for some where to hide them I am a bit puzzled by this behaviour.  She wants to spend a lot of time with them and will lie contentedly with them then next she is picking them up and pacing round with them as though looking for something.  she has also moved them all onto a chair they are only a couple of days old!!!

No it is not normal, your bitch is not happy with the whelping area.

Is it dark, covered, warm and somewhere quiet?

Agree, she's not happy with the whelping/bed area.  Lie down yourself where her bed is ... is there a draught? too much light. Give her somewhere warm, enclosed and dark - a covered large dog cage with door removed?  Make her a den, so says my much more experienced breeder friend.  Oh, if there are any children, neighbours, too many visitors, these might all make her restless.  Tell visitors to wait until they're much older.  Hope this helps.

Agree with the others.  You have a very distressed bitch.  Is she away from prying eyes.  Is she worried that people are going to touch her puppies.  You should be ensuring that everything is kept stress free for your girl.  When bitches have killed their pups, it is usually because they are nervous of the environment that the owner has put her in.

Make her a safe, secure, enclosed den where she can get on with the job of rearing her little ones.

I had my girl do exactly the same but only with 1 certain pup, i thought she was trying to kill it, even took pup to vet to see if anything wrong with him, but he was fine. So i moved her whelping box into dining room and put a large blanket over so it was like a den and she seemed to settle down after that.

Her whelping area is dark, enclosed and very den like, she has had an erge to go under the conifer tree tho so maybe that is it.  I have not allowed any visitors and it is in a quiet room in the house away from prying eyes, so not sure what the job is but cant let her under the tree, she is happily feeding them and all the pups are doing well, oh and she has picked one up to get on the sofa in the front room with her.  Do you think I should just allow her the run of her whelping area or into the other rooms as she sees fit??  Am getting quite stressed myself about it all!!!!

Are you staying in the quiet room with her or are you expecting her to stay there on her own with you and the rest of the household elsewhere?

All the advice was good, however you are obviously doing it.  Our last mum just seemed to like picking her pups up and moving them around - as three were white it was hard to keep track, but I am sure she had a favourite whom she would usually move :-)

I would still continue to confine her if possible

A more sinister reason is Eclampsia, the bitch will be wild eyed.

Oh no now even more stressed what are the signs of eclampsia????  She dosent look wild eyed but she is still a bit restless but she only had the pups 2 days ago, right now she is in her den with the light off and the door ajar slightly and the pups are all snuggled into her cant work it out.  Sometimes we do go in and spend time with her just to change her bedding  and feed and water her and check on the pups, when she had the pups she was breaking into the sac and nibbling on the cord and then passing them onto us literally.  Really cant work it out should the room shes in be darker? should I make her stay with them then I am worried she will harm them????   Oh and she is on regular calcium supplements every 3rd day  :(  :(

You need to stay in the room with her until she's settled.  I don't leave my bitches for at least 4 weeks.  She could easily lie on a puppy - you need to be there to watch her.  And you being with her will make her more likely to settle.  She shouldn't be left on her own after only 2 days - that's why she's distressed.

I agree completely with Westcoast - she needs you to be there with her. I even sleep with my bitches when they have young pups.

Sometimes we do go in and spend time with her just to change her bedding  and feed and water her and check

This is the problem then, your supposed to be in the room with her. During the first 2 weeks most of us move in with our bitch, we sleep in the same room and stay close so that we can hear every movement hence avoiding our bitches from sitting on the pups or any other problems.

If you are in another room watching tv she may want to be with her family, which is probably why she is moving the pups close to you, if she is a maiden she is as nervous as you are, she needs the comfort of her owner there with her. :-) If she brings the pups in again, just take them from her and place them back in the whelping area she will soon get the message that is where they must stay.

Digging under the conifer tree is normal behaviour, bitches still dig for a while after whelping.

Eclampsia is something to look out for, shaking, stiffness of the legs, wild eyed and restless, nervous, rapid breathing (not panting that is very normal) and fever. If you are giving your bitch a good quality puppy food, she does not need calcium tablets as well, you can give her some goats milk morning and evening to help with milk production and make sure she is having enough liquids.

Unless she normally chooses to spend her time isolated from her human family she'll be unhappy at being isolated from you now. So you must move closer to her.

Oh and she is on regular calcium supplements every 3rd day

As the pups are only 2 days old, have you been giving calcium tablets pre-whelping? If so this can be very dangerous, it can actually cause eclampsia, as the puppy foods for the bitch pre-whelping have the right amount of calcium in them already, so giving a calcium overload can have a dire effect on the system.

If you have been giving these tablets along with a good quality puppy food, then please do keep an eye out, it depends on what you were feeding her previously. I know I'm probably worrying you to death now, really sorry to do that, but it does need to be pointed out.

I'm sure all is well and it is just that she is insecure.

I know I a bitch who did this she was away from the family room in the conservatory with her pips. She dropped one and it died. Move her with you why isolate her?

You must have read whilst you have been a member if this site, supplements are bad and we all stay with pups 24hrs a day for at least 3 weeks.

When my girlI had her litter, I went into the livingroom where they were and mum was up on the sofa with one of her pups.  I said to her no hunni you have be in the welping box with the rest of them, back she went and i left the room and watched her through the crack in the door, up she got and took a puppy with her back up on the sofa, she obviously wanted her comfort but was torn by her maternal instinct and took one pup with her, I bet given time the rest would have been taken up on the sofa as well, the pups were about two weeks old.

My bitch had her pups 2.5 wks ago, she had them in the front room in her whelping box and is very content, the front room is very quiet..we dont have a loud family home anyway with there only being the 3 of us humans.. she can see us and we can see her and the pups and noone is allowed in the house..not even family members., I have a bed in the front room where I sleep with her..she is never left alone. She doesnt like being on her own, despite having 2 other dogs(not in the same room as her though).

Agree with the others - I have velcro dogs anyway and it's impossible to move around the house without everyone following me, so when Ellie had puppies I just lived in the utility room with her!

> I have velcro dogs

me too,i have hree velcro dogs...must say i love the expression lol.

i have kept pups in the living room and bitch was happier around the family rather than in the dining room with tiny pups on her own.did what she found more comforting and it was better all round.i dont allow visitors although the phone doesnt stop on people asking how they are ect.

i would try and stay with her more also give her some private attention love and cuddles ect.i would lay with bella for ages and she seems happier for it.

also i sleep downstairs with bella and pups until at least four weeks.my head rest is the side of the whelping box as i push it right up against my sofa so even if im sitting reading she can see im close.

good luck im sure you'll all be fine.xxx

Thanks for all your replies my girl is now very settled and content with her puppies and the issue that had been troubling is no longer.

Hi poppyspot, could you possibly tell us what the issue was that is no longer troubling her as it may help people in the future as people search the forum for topics like this if they have the same problem.
Pleased your bitch is now settled.
Lea xxx

Hi well I feel a bit silly but the problem has been the under floor heating !!!! Too warm the puppies were lying all over the pen and not huddled up together so my girl was trying to round them up all the time and move them to another area!!  Heating tweeked down problem solved.  She has been checked by the vet and is in good order and making a good mum with good string puppies if not a little too active at times!!!  Happy days we can all relax now :)   :)   Thanks for all your advise guys.

Don't feel silly!  If anyone does a search on the subject, it is all our experiences that help!  So, thanks for posting what was causing the problem.

I'm glad that all has been resolved to your girls contentment.  Just enjoy now!  :-)

Glad it was something simple! :-) The heating level's very important in the early days - too hot and they're all scattered, too cold and they're all huddled together. It can be quite tricky getting it just right.

Try as I might I can never get my large heavy coated breed in a heap!! The pups always spread out to the sides of the box. Last time (Dec) I resorted to turning off the heating and we just had the woodburner going. Even then they were too hot and we shivered while pups rejoyced in the cool winter temperatures!!!!
At 4 weeks they were out in the garden in the daytime in the snow!!! Never came to any harm I just make sure they don't get wet through. Little ruffy tuffies they are. Chablis still preffers to be outside and will happily sit in the rain, snow, sleet etc.. even with the back door open. Don't come and stay with me if you are a hot weather person....the doors are always wide open.
Aileen

Thanks fr that post, as I too have had problems with pups getting too hot in a couple of litters, one born during a hot spell in September, where the bedroom at about 4pm when the sun hit that side of the house getting too hot.

I only realised what the issue was because a fellow breeder had pups that Summer and had to move them outdoors from her extension at two weeks as they were getting hot and distressing the bitch.

Another friend who posts here also had her bitch carrying pups around and they too were too hot.

People know to keep pups warm, but often don't realise that because they can;t regulate their own heat properly, too hot is also a problem.

Often this only shows up after pups have fed, as the exertion of feeding raises their temperature.

I know of a sad case in the USA where the bitch killed a 3 week old pup that kept crying due to getting too hot, she was a distressed young maiden bitch 

The owners dog room door had been left open while they had gone out shopping and it had got very hot, the bitch had shown signs of getting upset if the pups got whiney.

We had a week old litter in one of the excessively hot spells a few summers ago, our vet alerted us to the likely problem and we had about 4 fans plus damp towels in the room to try to regulate the temp

> We had a week old litter in one of the excessively hot spells a few summers ago, our vet alerted us to the likely problem and we had about 4 fans plus damp towels in the room to try to regulate the temp

My gsp was born 2006 before that  very hot summer started. Every time we visited there were fans and cold  towels around. The bitch was having cooling bottles of water placed under her bedding to make her comfortable.

Is Carringtoin right in saying that most people move in with their girls in the first few weeks!!!  My vet advises as do a number of other breeder friends that mum needs keeping an eye on yes but certainly not to move in with them they have a big enough job to do as it is rearing those pups without us humans being there all the time.  Am a little confused I know my girl did not take to this second litter straight away but those issues were resolved and i do feel that being with her 24 /7 in her whelping area would have possibly got on her nerves and she may not have bonded just as well with the pups if I was there all the time as it is after her initial ptroblems she has settled right down and is making an excellent mum to her good strong litter of puppies.

I sleep next to the whelping box for the week before the pups are due and for 3 weeks afterwards. 
At first I only leave them to go to the loo and to make coffee and a snack.  Both rooms are directly next door to where the whelping box is.  Once the pups have their eyes open, are stronger and more mobile, I might cook a meal but am immediately in the next room.  Between 3 and 4 weeks, when the pups are on their feet, I go back to my own bed with a baby monitor connected so that I'm aware of any problem.
It's very easy in the early days, for a tired bitch to sit on a puppy accidentally apart from a puppy getting stuck behind her, with or without pig rails.  Every breeder that I know does the same.

In reality a lot depends on the actual breed.  My Spanish are just wonderful, though their pups are amazing as I've actually had put who are still partially inside their mothers feeding!  A day or two is all they need and Iknow other people who have ended up with litters from the breed couldn't believe how early they can be trusted and for you to get a good sleep.

There are many other breeds that you just couldn't do this with.  Our Pom's are different because of them being so small their temperature etc. can change really quickly and you can lose them very fast so wdn't leave them on their own.

If as most bitches are they are normally family companions and close to their owners there is a conflict between their attachment to us and their natural instincts, (which by very didn't of that attachment can become dulled).

Yes they have a huge job to do, and for this reason we want to encourage them to go with the instincts to do the job without being torn by their attachment to us.  So we feed them in their whelping box, keep them company etc.

Also it is natural for a proportion, as much as 25% of puppies to die due to crushing getting cold etc, and this may have been acceptable in the more livestock approach to puppy rearing of days gone by, but not acceptable when we can easily avoid such misfortune by being watchful.

> Is Carringtoin right in saying that most people move in with their girls in the first few weeks!!!&nbsp; My vet advises as do a number of other breeder friends that mum needs keeping an eye on yes but certainly not to move in with them<

I think you will find that the majority of the breeders on here do stay with their girls for the first few weeks - and personally when it comes to breeding, I prefer to take the advice of people who are experienced in raising puppies rather than the advice of vets who do not have the general "hands-on" experience of healthy litters - as a rule, vets only see a bitch and puppies in times of crisis.

Especially with a first-time mum, we have found it beneficial to stay with her - a clumsy young mum can easily lie on a puppy and crush it - a quick movement on the part of an owner that the bitch trusts absolutely will save it.   Similarly, one can help smaller puppies latch on - and generally it has been my experience that a trusted owner gives a slightly nervous new mum confidence.

Of course, some of the "bigger breeders" may take a similar attitude to that of farmers - that when you have livestock, you have deadstock - and if one has several breeding bitches who have large litters then maybe the loss of a puppy or two is not as heartbreaking as we do.   I know that used to be a general attitude of some older breeders some 50 or so years ago.

Our pups were born just over 3 weeks ago..I know without being near my bitch to help her and her pups, I would certainly have lost one of them as she wasnt able to suckle. I will be sleeping next to her until the pups are about 4 weeks old..possibly longer.

All of my dogs, neutered, or not, males and females, are all part of my family.  So, any breeding bitch is used to having me around and would miss this terribly.  I think you can tell when they rely on your help, and lean against you when in labour, unlike livestock.  It is total trust.

I agree that the way we rear dogs has probably changed a lot (for the better I hope), and if I didn't stay with my bitches, they would get distressed and be torn between leaving pups and being with me.  I know we have had this conversation before - and I vividly remember Brainless explaining that she stayed close - watching "unobtrusively" and this is probably relevant.  It's not so much as being in their face all the time.  More the fact that we are close enough to hear that crying pup that got stuck round the back etc.

So, I hope that Barbara won't mind me pinching her word, but I think that unobtrusive is just about right.  :-)

i too am with my girls 1week before whelp and for about 3weeks after ,and by that time pups are on the move and running around ,ive had to move stuck pups though the night when mum is fast asleep and has 1 trapped behind her ,im sure if i hadnt had been there and not moved pup it would have died.

That bond of trust they have with us is quite humbling.  Baby monitors are a godsend too.

I tend to "sleep" on sofa next to the whelping box for around 3 - 4weeks. That said, my current litter are 2 weeks today and there are 6 pups, so a large litter for my breed, but for several nights I have not really felt needed, pups are big and chunky, eyes all open and I may consider sleeping in my own bed from the weekend. I have a close bond with my girls and they are more than happy to share their days and nights with their babies with me close at hand. :-)

I slept by the whelping box the first 2 nights, then moved to the sofa. I am a very poor sleeper and wake up 3 or 4 times every night, and whenever I woke up I checked on the puppies. There were only 2 in the litter which were both big and strong, so I wasn't too worried about Ellie smothering them by mistake, not like you would be with a bigger litter. After about 10 or 14 days I moved back upstairs, but we had the puppycam on all night and I checked all was well every time I woke up. I also had friends in America who were addicted to the cam and I daresay they would have phoned if they'd seen anything wrong in the night! :-D

My bitch was like this with her first litter for the first week.  It was frightening seeing her pick them up by the head.  Like your girl sounds, she was unhappy despite being in a private bedroom with a warm covered box.  She really wanted to raise them in the cupboard our outside in a hole she had dug.  Give her time and she should settle down as they get stronger.  Supervision is a must as she may hurt one by accident and try to distract her when she is intent on her mission to move them.

I must add that she was the perfect dam after she settled and hopefully your girl will be too.  I guess some don't like not being able to control where they raise their litter.

My bitch was fine with her second litter.

I have found (for my bitch) the best method is a wireless cctv camera with view into enclosed whelping box sending picture to t.v. in sitting room. This allows me to monitor bitch pre-whelping, moving in with her when she is ready to whelp, this way she doesnt get unsettled by me
physically checking every five minutes or when I think I hear a noise. Up to and after whelping I sleep on living room couch which means I sleep light and react to any noise via cctv and can monitor pups behaviour without my presence being a distraction.
Obviously I do spend time with both mother and pups and when she is ready she is free to come and go from myself to pups and vice-versa and when pups are old enough they freely follow her back and forwards
Stan Berry