endorsements on papper work i have read this a few times now what does this mean? how do you do it and why do you do it? thanks scarlet

There are two endorsements that a breeder can put on their puppies' registration: 'Progeny not to be registered' and 'Export pedigree not allowed'. This means that the puppy can't be bred from in the future without the breeder's permission (usually when it's passed the necessary tests for hereditary conditions and proved itself worthy in the showring or field) and that it can't be used for showing or breeding abroad - it can be taken abroad on holiday or emigration.

so how do i do this for my puppies if we have some and does it tell you on the pappers what the endorsments are? thanks

R - PROGENY NOT ELIGIBLE FOR REGISTRATION

X - EXPORT PEDIGREE NOT ALLOWED

The first, "Progeny Not Eligible For Registration" does not prevent a dog being bred from, but it does prevent this dog's progeny from being registered at the Kennel Club.

Similarly, "Export Pedigree Not Allowed" does not prevent a dog from being exported overseas (except to Malta), but does prevent the dog from being registered with an overseas Kennel Club.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/365

It explains it on the registration form when the breeder applies to register the litter. Here is the Kennel Club's endorsements information guide.

thanks for your help. can i ask do you's endorse your litters? is it what i should do to be a  responsible breeder?

Yes, definitely. It's a sign that the breeder cares about the future of the puppies.

i endorse now i didnt use to but after reading so much here i now do ,but in my contract i put that when all health tests have been carried out and ive seen them and the dog/bitch i will remove the endorsemts.

so to endorse my litter i also need a contract stating what the endorsments are and the requirments if any to have them lifted in the future. does it also state them on the papers?

>is it what i should do to be a responsible breeder?

It's one of the indicators of a responsible breeder.  I hope it starts much earlier than that with choosing to breed for the right reasons, health testing, choosing a good stud dog etc

As a puppy buyer, I would certainly expect to see puppies endorsed.  Good breeders will remove endorsements in the right circumstances and I think it's right that they retain that element of choice.  

When you are vetting your potential owners remember to take the time to explain what the endorsements mean, and why you've used them.  Also, what criteria you would use to decide if and when they can be lifted.  I remember being very reassured about my breeder when she explained the need for health testing and the steps she takes to protect her puppies from indiscriminate breeding.  In fact I'd walk away from a breeder who was not concerned about the future of their breed  :)

Yes the kennel club state you have to get the new owners signature to show they knew and understood the endorsements.

On my puppy contract (we each keep a  signed copy, signed by myself and buyer) re endorsements it states:

"You will see on your 'KENNEL CLUB' REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE that there are two ENDORSEMENTS on the forms.  These are to safeguard the welfare of the puppy and the breed.  Should you wish to breed from your puppy in the future, I will apply to the 'Kennel Club' to lift the breeding restriction, (If you have a bitch puppy, this would not be until she is over two years old), subject to receiving copies of Satisfactory HIP, and EYE test Certificates, Normal Kidney blood test result, and that they will be DNA tested (unless clear by parentage) for PRCD-PRA, and only bred from in such a way that no affected puppies will be produced, and provided he/she is of sound temperament and general health with no major conformation faults according to the KC breed standard.  Any potential plan for breeding should be discussed with me in advance............"

All my puppies have always been endorsed (15 years now), including my own ;) and I have had the KC ring me when registering my own litter asking me if I would like to lift it, as they can't register without it being removed by me in writing first. LOL.

All my litters are endorsed too

All my litters have always been endorsed, i even have endorsed puppies i am running on just in case.

My pups are also all endorsed and after a few false starts I have now got (I hope) a watertight contract in as much as I have the requirements as to lifting them in a seperate paragraph and expect new owners to sign that bit individually to the rest of the contract. That way they cannot claim not to have seen it!
I would expect all good breeders to endorse their pups and those who don't I would be a little suspect of.
Aileen

I am a good breeder and I do not endorse my puppies and never felt the need to. Fortunately anyway we have only hip scoring in our breed. I can honestly say that people over the years who have had puppies from me I have found to be honest and trustworthy and sensible people. I hope I have never got that wrong. They are people who have wanted a pet and I hope I would have seen through them if that was not the case. A friend of mine does endorse as they have some health issues to be concerned about.
I am very careful and selective about my puppy buyers and keep in contact with them so if they did decide to breed on, I feel they would discuss this with me anyway.
Diane

> I am a good breeder and I do not endorse my puppies and never felt the need to.

So why not endorse for extra security, it doesn't cost anything.

Fortunately anyway we have only hip scoring in our breed.

I do not doubt that you are a carefull breeder but there is more to endorsing a pup than ensuring health checks are done. It helps to ensure
pups are not just produced without care, My contract has quite specific requirements for the lifting of endorsements, in order to make sure the pup is of a quality to be used.  Health checks are only a small part of it. I hope your trust in people is upheld, but I have maybe a more  muddied view of joe public, much as I am very carefull with my vetting I do preferr to have the small amount security given by the endorsement, and as Babara has said "It don't cost nuffink"
Aileen

Slap on the wrist for me, I've never endorsed, must be a bad breeder then.   Tut tut, Christine!     *Tries to remember how many pups she's bred that have been bred from with her approval or not.  Mmmmm that would be none*  ;-)

what do you do if the breeder puts on the endorements after you have brought the puppy home and when the paperwork arrives there theya re on the paperwork and you dont have and have not sighed a contact, the dog is healthtested and the breeder still wont lift the endorments even though she never told you they would be on the paperwork in the first place and should not have put them on as the puppy was in your home not the breeders.

I also have on my puppy contracts something along the same lines as Brainless.I also have 2 copies both signed by the buyer & myself.This has proved to be invaluable to me in one case.I had a familya few years back who had had everything explained to them regarding the endorcements.They happily signed the paper work and took the puppy.A couple of years later I received a phone call saying that the dog had 'accidentely' got a bitch pregnant,so would I lift the endorsments off his pedigree.I explained to them again why the endorsments had been placed  and said No.A few weeks later I received another call saying the puppies were lovely could I just lift the endorsments,when they got the same reply from me I was told that the breeder of the bitch said there were ways round it and she could get them registered.She even told the family she could get his endorsments lifted!!I was so angry I phoned the Kennel Club explained everything and faxed them over the copy of the signed contract.When I heard back from them they said it was a good thing I had a copy to prove that they had signed and that they would not take his endosments off unless they heard from me.

To newf3 I shouldn't think the breeder has a leg to stand on in this case and I would imagine the KC would lift the endorsement against the wishes of the breeder.

The kennel club now expects purchasers to be signing an agreement/contract at the time of purchase that states the breeder has explained the endorsements are there, what they mean, and under what circumstances they will be lifted.  I think they asked for this because as you say, many people were surprised to find the endorsements and felt the breeder had not pointed out they would be there.  However, if the breeder has not followed this, I would imagine the only recourse would be to go through the kennel club but wouldn't hold out much hope for a simple solution.  The breeder can only place endorsements whilst the pup is in her physical ownership, you say the pup was in your home not the breeders, if it happened between you purchasing the pup and transferring the ownership, perhaps the date on your receipt (if you have one) may not tally with the date she placed the endorsement at the KC (though this is strange, most breeders place the endorsements when they register the litter, and it seems odd this wouldn't be done prior to the pup being sold).

Like already mentioned, the placing of endorsements are not only about health testing, see if your pups breeder will discuss her reasons for not wanting to lift them, she may expect the dog to be proven in the showring, or may want to see that the dog is an excellent example, she may simply have the best interests of her breed at heart.

may i just say this IS NOT MY puppy i'm talking about,
my breeder has been nothing but helpful, its a person with another breed who came to me for advice, i told them to speak to the breeder about there resons for not lifting them so i am glad you have also said that.

Cavlover,
i know they have contacted the KC but they seem to be taking the breeders side on this.
as i have said i only know what this person has told me, i myself have a great breeder who is always there should i need her.

>what do you do if the breeder puts on the endorements after you have brought the puppy home

The KC information on endorsements says: "Kennel Club regulations allow the registered owner of a dog to place endorsements on a dog's records, provided that the dog is in their physical possession and registered ownership."

If the puppy was not in the breeder's possession at the time the endorsements were placed (and that should be straightforward to prove) then they should not have been placed at all. If the breeder had applied for registration, including the endorsements, before the puppy was sold, then the placement is allowable, but they should have been explained to the buyer with written evidence of this. The same KC page says:

"Written confirmation must be obtained from the new owner at the time of sale to state that they have been made aware of any proposed endorsements, even if the endorsed registration certificate is given at the time of sale. In the event of a dispute where such evidence exists, the Kennel Club would normally decide in favour of the vendor's endorsements being retained. Conversely, in the absence of such written evidence, the Kennel Club would normally decide in favour of the purchaser and lift the endorsement."

> Slap on the wrist for me, I've never endorsed, must be a bad breeder then.

Horses for courses I would say. Your breed members all seem to know one another, not many pet people would be tempted to have a one-off litter of 14 large lively gundogs in a specialist market....

now if you bred Cavaliers....... :-(

Almost everyone who has one says..."just one cute little litter/do her good/ all my friends want one/only have 2 or 3 little puppies/ take up no space/ easy to make a few bob/ everyone else does it!!/ health testing? what? for just one litter, not worth it....etc etc.

If and when I ever let a cavalier go I always endorse, in this breed it would be criminal not to IMO.

Slap on the wrist for me, I've never endorsed, must be a bad breeder then.   Tut tut, Christine!     *Tries to remember how many pups she's bred that have been bred from with her approval or not.  Mmmmm that would be none*

Christine, I did not accuse anyone of being a bad breeder, I know nothing of how you breed, but I do think all pups should carry endorsements for their own good. Personally I can think of no reason not to, it costs nothing and will help eliminate the "odd" litter being bred or at the very least being registered and possibly reflecting badly on your good name. For those reasons I have and always will place endorsements and expect a signed contract to prove it. That is the expected policy in my breed. I hope you continue to get no problems with your pups, I myself like the added insurance of an endorsement. Maybe I came over badly by saying I would be suspect of a breeder who did not do it, but in my breed it would be expected, and suspect if not done,  Maybe within your breed things are slightly different.
No offence intended
Aileen

same here Merlot,
I have always sighed a watertight contract and had endorments on all the dogs i have brought, all the newfie breeders i know ALL do it.

> what do you do if the breeder puts on the endorements after you have brought the puppy home and when the paperwork arrives there theya re on the paperwork and you dont have and have not sighed a contact, the dog is healthtested and the breeder still wont lift the endorments even though she never told you they would be on the paperwork in the first place and should not have put them on as the puppy was in your home not the breeders.

In that case the Kennel club will lift them as they were improperly placed.

Also it isn't just the breeder that can endorse but the owner of the dog, as long as it is still in their physical p[possession at the time they place them on the dogs record.

For example a retired breeding or show dog could have endorsements placed on it's paperwork.

> Slap on the wrist for me, I've never endorsed, must be a bad breeder then.   Tut tut, Christine!     *Tries to remember how many pups she's bred that have been bred from with her approval or not.  Mmmmm that would be none*
>
> Christine, I did not accuse anyone of being a bad breeder, I know nothing of how you breed, but I do think all pups should carry endorsements for their own good. Personally I can think of no reason not to, it costs nothing and will help eliminate the "odd" litter being bred or at the very least being registered and possibly reflecting badly on your good name.

Persnally I wouldn't sell a puppy to anyone I didn't trust 100%.  My puppy buyers are met at least twice before I sell them a pup and they are encouraged to come & see what mess the hoodlums make before they leave at 8 weeks old.      Actually maybe I give off some 'aura' about not breeding because even those pups I've bred that have done brilliantly in the showring or have been worked have never been mated either!  Only one unsuccessful AI attempt with a 'Mia sister' and that mating was with my full blessing.

We always hope that we make the best choice of new owners for our pups, but there is always a risk, and at least with endorsements, there is even less incentive, to breed in the wrong way.

Can anyone tell me if there are such contract templates available, or would I be best paying someone to draw one up for me? I will be endorsing all my puppiesif/when they arrive but would like to make sure the contracts are absolutely water tight.

The best contracts are short and to the point, but I know of no official templates, breeders have drawn their won up and amended them as experience has dictated.

Your welcome to use a copy of mine as a starting point, and ask a solicitor to look at it for you.

My pups were born 2.5wks ago...very precious to me and will have pedigrees endorsed (have already filled form in and now trying to think of names!!)
I need to write a contract..dont have any idea where to start or what to put without it appearing rude though.
I do have people wanting my pups and have explained that there will be endorsements..they dont appear to be put off by it, just need to make sure they understand why and that I'm only doing it for the pups and breed welfare.

Have pm'd you mine for a starting point.

It fits onto two sides of A4, that way the signature is only needed once.  If you go onto more pages ensure each page is signed.

Thank you for sending that over, I appreciate it :)

Brainless, would there be any chance I could have a look at it as well? Pretty please? :)

I'm writing up my contract atm for my first litter in the UK and would really love to see how someone with more experience would go about it.

Kind regards,

Sara

Thankyou Brainless.
Good starting point for me:)

Brainless, thank you very much. very interesting.

> It helps to ensure
> pups are not just produced without care

It doesn't really - it helps to ensure that if any of your pups go on to have pups themselves, that in order to be registered with the Kennel Club, the requirements for lifting the endorsements must be met.

Unfortunately, it doesn't actually stop anyone having a litter with or without healthtests :(

=============

I always draw up a separate contract listing all the requirements that must be met in order for me to lift the endorsements (I just forget to lift my own!! - I too have tried to register pups for my own endorsed bitches - oops!!!).

If you do not have proof that the endorsements have been explained correctly to the owner, I've been reliably told of instances of endorsements being lifted without the breeders permission :(

==================

Unfortunately, in my own breed, we have pretty high numbers of unregistered pups from unhealth-tested parents :( 

Persnally I wouldn't sell a puppy to anyone I didn't trust 100%.  My puppy buyers are met at least twice before I sell them a pup and they are encouraged to come & see what mess the hoodlums make before they leave at 8 weeks old.      Actually maybe I give off some 'aura' eek about not breeding because even those pups I've bred that have done brilliantly in the showring or have been worked have never been mated either!

The only pup I've sold NOT endorsed went to somebody I had known for many years indeed and fully trusted. It's also the only pup I wish I HAD endorsed........ You just can't tell what people may do in the future so it's a free way of taking extra care.

I am a good breeder and I do not endorse my puppies and never felt the need to. Fortunately anyway we have only hip scoring in our breed.

But a dog isn't only a pair of hips! What about looks (OR working ability) and temperament as well as health? All of that is mentioned in my contract in relation to endorsements.

I am not sure what you are suggesting. I am a very meticulous breeder. Do not sell to anyone, ever. I breed for show when I want a new puppy to show. I travel many miles for the right dog to complement my bitch. My breeding stock are of the best temperament and my puppy buyers are testimony to that. This is personal preference and to suggest that you are not a good breeder because you do not feel the need to endorse your puppies is ludicrous and I resent the idea. Incidentally, I am an Accredited Breeder so am required to provide a contract, have been Secretary but am now on the Committee of my breed club and sometimes rescue involvement as a result. That is why I try harder than some I know to make sure my breed is the right breed for the person.
I was grateful to people for some advice on this occasion when I had my litter but this seems to have become an attack on something that is a personal choice. If it was essential, perhaps the KC should make this a compulsory thing.
Diane

I think all that is being said is there is no need as a reputable breeder ;not to endorse' so why not do it?

I would prefer the Kennel Club registrations to be automatically endorsed, and the removal be optional, not the other way around as it is now.

So do I Barbara. Well said.
Unfortunatly we can never ever be 100% sure and to be compacent is not an alternative for me.
Aileen

I do endorse all my puppies. Unfortunately, in my breed this does not always deter people from breeding. Non KC reg litters of my breed are becoming increasingly common and this is a huge worry. Needless to say, the selection of genuine and honest PET owners is far more crucial than the endorsement itself, which is self limiting.

I also endorse all of mypups and have done for many many years.  Really don't understand why somebody wouldn't myself.  As others have said even the ones I keep ar endorsed.

Yes and yes to both points , it is only one of the things that go towards being a responsible breeder, it would be worthwhile if considering
breeding your first litter to make contact with one of your breed clubs or breed council if your breed has one and find out if they have a "breeders charter" that you could follow/sign up to

I personally provide purchasers with a sample copy of sales contract a couple of weeks prior to sale, this gives ample opportunity to consider
the various elements of the contract and raise any questions they may have.
At time of sale we go over the contract verbally and purchaser signs (two copies) of contract which states they have had a full explanation of the terms in contract and fully accept them.
Sales contract has been checked over by a university lecturer in law who has confirmed it as being enforceable in law if required
The endorsements are lifted (at no cost) when the terms are shown to have been met in full by purchaser if they request me to do so
Stan Berry