Hi,
I have a dilemma.
Someone has been on my waiting list for over a year but I didn't send him my questionnaire or ask many questions because I didn't have a litter. When this litter was born I sent him the questionnaire. He didn't send it back, but sent a deposit. I sent him a text and an email asking questions about his experience. I got nothing. He lives a long way from me. How long would you wait before saying 'hard luck, you should have let me know about yourself, I'm letting someone else have this dog' ??

I'd send his deposit straight back.  had 2 oppertunities to answer your questions and not bothered. I wouldn't give a third chance

I was hoping someone would say that. I'm just not happy that he doesn't want to tell me about his background etc.....

....but the nice person in me is saying, what if he just keeps forgetting?

If he really wanted one of your puppies, you'd like to think he would show at least some interest!   If he's not committed now, will he ever be?  Unlikely.

Send deposit straight back and let pup go to someone who really wants it!

Do you usually vet prospective owners via questionnaire? 

As a buyer I would expect to meet the breeder, usually before pups are on the ground, and I'd expect to be interviewed.  Following a successful meeting, and once accepted onto the list, I'd expect to be making regular contact with the breeder to ensure they knew I was still interested and serious.

Some puppy sites advertise the booking of puppies via deposit and seem allow a 'sale' without too much input from either party - could he have mistaken you for one of this type of breeder?  Do have a check back through your contact with him to see how he might have got the wrong end of the stick (in order to stop it from happening again in future) but either way you do not have to sell to anyone you don't want to.

You probably should have returned his deposit immediately with a letter explaining how you choose your puppy buyers and reminding him to make contact...

Distance is no excuse.  Keen puppy people will move heaven and earth to get the right dog and breeder
.

To mis-quote Fords' advertising "it may be your dog, but it's my baby!"

Personally, if the person has not answered my questionnaire, s/he wouldn't be offered a pup - and I would not have banked their deposit cheque!   I've put lots of time and love into every litter I've ever bred - last night I hear from owners of a puppy that I bred 15 years ago, that she had gone to Rainbow Bridge ....if the person cannot be a***d to fill in a questionnaire, then they are not the owners that I want!

> I sent him a text and an email asking questions about his experience. I got nothing.

If I wanted one of your puppies I would be doing everything to let you know that the pup would have the best ever home.  If you want something badly enough you are willing to convince the breeder that you are ideal to own one of their puppies.

I suppose I'm just fed up of people who think "I can afford it, so I can do what I like with it."  (not with my pup you can't!)

I know it was probably rude of me, but I had a telephone call this week, and the frst question was "how much"

I said that I couldn't discuss price with someone who hadn't been vetted.  The answer I heard as I replaced the receiver was "OH!"

I always meet prospective owners, if they cant make the journey I cant vet them................Distance should be no object if they want one of YOUR puppies. How can they possibly know they want one of yours unless they have met you and your dogs and discussed the planned litter/litter, how you rear, what support you offer, etc, etc. I am, at this very minute waiting for a couple to arrive for vetting. If they want just any puppy from my breed from any breeder.............they will be able to get one with less hoops to jump through.

Diane

I will on occasion accept somebody having a puppy from me even if we don't meet until the day they collect, if they live very far away. However they then know that they DO run the risk of being turned away, there are no guarantees before we meet.

I do not breed regularly but always have long telephone conversations with prospective owners pointing out pros and cons of the breed. If they live a long way away I send them to someone who I know who I trust to be honest with me about the reaction they have to our breed's enthusiastic greeting. Everyone knows that even if we get as far as them coming to see us there is no guarantee. They have to be happy with us and we have to be happy with them, after all it should be a long relationship you are entering in to. My husband used to cringe at some of my questions but now agrees that it normally sorts out they type of owner we want for our pups.
Any doubts at all then they don't get one of mine. I had been speaking to a lady who gave all the right answers, she came to see us wearing a cream designer outfit :( I only allowed one dog in the room at a time and the look of disgust when mum to be licked her was enough for me, byeeeeee!!!

I never take a deposit either, I just go on trust. 

Wouldn't have thought he kept forgetting. If I had a new pup on the way, I certainly wouldn't.  i'd be on the phone every week :)

and if he is forgetting, he can't be that bothered can he?

I expect anyone who wants to be on my puppy list to fill in my questionnaire. When I get it back I then phone them to ask more questions and I expect to be grilled as well!! I always invite people to meet my lot at home as many have never met my breed "in the flesh".
I find the questionnaire sorts out who is really interested and who has just been cruising the internet.
In answer to the OP, I would return the deposit. I just wandered why it was sent in the first place?

I take it that he sent you a cheque as a deposit, and that you have not as of yet cashed it?

If you have not cashed it, send it back your still ok, if you have cashed it you have entered into a contract with him. :-(

I truly don't understand how anyone can be on your waiting list without being vetted first, that is how they make it onto your waiting list in the first place otherwise he is just an enquiry. If you have told this man he is on your waiting list, your telling him you have accepted him, which is why he has now sent you a deposit, if you have cashed his deposit he has every right to take things further, he may well feel that you have messed him around for a year and entered into a contract with him for a pup, he may also have felt that he does not need to fill out your questionaire as you have already accepted him, it is a cack handed way of finding an owner for your puppy.

I hope that you did not cash his deposit and I hope that he will go away quietly as you have another owner for your pup. I can't say I blame him if he is upset, he's waited a year and the kind of home he would be offering your pup should have been sorted out then.

You owe it to your pups to be more careful, the man may have had a fabulous home for your pup, you'll just never know.

Just one more point, have you actually phoned this man and spoken to him, maybe his e-mail is down or he did not receive the one you posted out, or he is visually impaired, in hospital, on holiday? Have you tried to contact him by phone at all?

If you are at all in doubt, then he goes without.
I have lost count of the number of times a breeder has said to me "if only I had trusted my instinct"

Thanks for the replies everyone, I've returned his cheque. I gave him several chances - I'd emailed, wrote on facebook, rang and texted. He has written to me by email before so he can read/write. I'm following my instincts.

I'm a bit fuzzy at the mo - I fell down the stairs this morning and broke a bone in the base of my spine and the hospital gave me a cocktail of painkillers, so I'm 'spaced out' lol

Get well soon Jackie...broke the bone in the base of my spine a few years back...wet floor at work!!!  Not nice.

Hope you will soon be feeling better, pain is awful and does get you down.  Get well soon.

Oh my, poor you, get well soon. :-(

Hi I agree with sawheaties and implement the same practices I either have a long chat with them on the phone or email them and ask them to tell me all about themselves and I certainly like to meet them before I fully commit, I dont accept deposits until we are all fully happy with each other and I feel they are right for the puppy.  I know its not always practicable when asking questions because they could always lie to you but I think meeting them and going with your gut instinct is the best method and if your not happy do not let them have a puppy.  I also never give out details of where I live until the puppies are ready to be viewed at about 5/6 weeks a litter of spaniels not far from us has been stolen at 3 weeks old the vet has said they wont last 48 hours without their mummy so you can never be too careful.

And don't forget - Google is your friend!   You can google addresses and confirm that the prosective owner does have a garden (even if you cannot see clearly that it is fenced) and not living in a high-rise!  

> I truly don't understand how anyone can be on your waiting list without being vetted first, that is how they make it onto your waiting list in the first place otherwise he is just an enquiry.

That is why I have two lists, enquiries, and bookings, people progress from one to the other AFTER vetting.

As most of my buyers are unlikely to be local a lot of vetting is done by correspondence/telephone initially, but at some point they either visit me or a trusted colleague in my breed, to ensure they are right for one of our breed.

Most people then visit once pups are born, usually once before collection if distance is an issue, and as often as they like if they live a more reasonable distance.  Not unusual to get weekly or fortnightly visits.

For example I have a potential home in Northern Ireland who have recently lost a dog bred by a Friend of mine, and this would be the next in a long lien of the breed they have owned,a nd they are prepared to travel to a reputable breeder, rather than get a readily available pup locally.

So vetting has no hard and fast rules, other than you have to be Happy that you have done it as well as possible, as you (and pup) will reap the problems down the line if you don't..

As a purchaser of a pup I think both sides should vet very thoroughly.

I completely understand and agree with breeders who want to ensure that their pups/babies are going to a good home.

Vetting works both ways I found a breeder who was reputable and who sent a detailed questionnaire. I was more than happy to complete this, send my deposit and called once or twice before the puppies were born to chat and get to know her and let her ask me any more questions. 

We travelled 100 miles to see the litter and have a face to face to see that we were suitable and at that point I began to be uncomfortable with her.  Although she had used a home bred sire she would not let me see him as apparently he was muddy!!  (makes me smile when I read about a woman with a white suit going to visit a litter).  I explained that I really did not mind (was wearing jeans /jumper) and I had had gundogs in the past and had come prepared with a change of clothes even!!  But no she was adamant - considering that 3 parties were travelling to view the litter and parents I found her refusal astonishing and extremely rude. The dam was also quickly shooed out as apparently she was overprotective.  The overall impression of her being an extremely difficult character was compounded by the way she was ordering her husband around whilst we were there and by the fact that during the meeting she informed us that she was now keeping a male pup so we would now have second choice. This was proved untrue in the following week when she emailed a group email which indicted all pup were being sold.  Moreover the pup was possible a PRA carrier so would have been a risky choice of a stud dog for her. On meeting her I really didn't feel that she was someone whom I would want to keep in touch with and decided to withdraw.

I see having a pup as a huge commitment and thought very long and hard about it and was prepared to be extremely cooperative - there are good and bad purchasers and good and bad breeders. 

In some ways its a bit like making any big decision-  find a breeder /purchaser you trust and can respect if not even warmly like.

i agree 100% with you spaniel fan....good and bad in breeders too! ...i always like to meet the family 1st so they too can say no for what ever reason.but never had 1 say no yet :)

I forgot to add that my breed has a very good are rep system where prospective owners visit to find out exactly what the breed are like, good and bad points, seeing a dog in it's home environment is very important.

My breed is very boisterous and people often warm towards it because it is reccomended for people with allergies and doesn't shed. Then when you point out they bring mud in just like any other dog and need daily grooming people often aren't as interested.

People lie and get to know what you want to hear. If I have someone who says they don't work or are at home a lot I ring them on and off, just to see if they are there, obviously I give them several chances. It is important to me that they are as happy with me as I am with them as the relationship should be a long trusting one.

My breed too are not for the feint hearted and unless they have had one before I am guilty of running the breed down to point out the potential issues although of course some of these are for all breeds. I have turned down on meeting although this has been rare because a long telephone interview normally has sorted out unsuitable people. I have a 6 week old litter now and there was someone who had booked a dog and was waiting for several weeks. When I was arranging the day to come and meet us, she let it slip that she was going back to work full time before the puppy was due with them. Her Mum would be coming in to look after the young child and the puppy and although I felt bad too, I felt the risks were too high so I turned her away. I had no problem with the child as mine are good if brought up with children sensibly but felt it only needed her eye off the ball. By the way when I asked to meet the Mum she said that was not possible as she would be looking after the child when they came to meet us. Think that nailed it completely.
Weigh up the risks as homing all puppies is a total risk. All my dogs live in the house with me and are quite boisterous and I also deliberately launch them on people ( they love to meet people ) and jump all over them. If they are unphased and especially if they go away excited about my boy Harvey who is nuts, I get some confidence they will be able to cope with their one little puppy.
Just do your very best for them, that is all that can be asked of you.
Diane

Oh yes the mass onslaught of excited dogs is pretty telling ;)

I had 6 people come around on Saturday, the family and their friends, two were children of say 8 and 10, so they got the choice of waiting for the dogs to calm down and have one in one at a time, or the excited lot in at once, they opted for the latter, and were all laughing at them vying for attention, with the youngest climbing under and over her fellow to get more than her fair share!

The best time to vet prospective owners is when you don't actually have any puppies.

The best time to vet prospective owners is when you don't actually have any puppies

I quite agree - its good to see family around your adult dogs so you know how they react to boisterous, hair shedding dogs.

One of my girls has recently been confirmed in whelp and after Easter I have several people coming to meet me, her as well as other canine family members.

It is another sign of commitment too - they have to make the effort to come and visit without seeing a puppy.

>The best time to vet prospective owners is when you don't actually have any puppies.

Couldn't agree more with this statement. I recently had a couple travel from north of Aberdeen just to meet my dogs and see how their Choc Lab would get on with them. They couldn't wait to get their puppy ;-) I won't be breeding for a few years now so I was glad to pass them onto other breeders. One of the things that appealed to them the most was that my dogs were straight into the water, taking their Lab with them :-) The comment was 'Oh, I do hope that the new puppy teaches our boy to go in the water more' ;-) This was a 'working' gundog too :-p

> Oh yes the mass onslaught of excited dogs is pretty telling ;-)

lol, that reminds me of the breeder I got my staffy from.  They told me that they invite interested people in and then let the dogs come from upstairs into the living room.  Any fear, revulsion, hysteria etc etc at the sight of these staffy's coming down the stairs from the potential viewers and they know they are not the breed for them.

I have been told in recent years by the breeders my dogs came from that I would be added to the list BUT both times it has been a list of people who are interested that will be informed when there is a litter due.  This doesn't necessarily mean that you move onto the waiting list for a pup but more of a waiting list to be vetted for a pup.

Yep, when I had puppies and had people round, I just had the adults galloping around demanding attention and shedding hair all over right from the start - I have a hairy attention seeking breed and you want to be sure the new owners aren't going to be too house proud! :-p

When I bought my bitch it was sight unseen, but both myself and the breeder had agreed that we would both make the final decision on the day we finally met - I wanted her as a foundation bitch as well as a pet, so the temperament and structure were very important, and although I was slightly known in my breed by then she would have wanted to be sure I wasn't a puppy farmer. Of course I fell in love and probably would have bought her anyway! :-D I had been in close contact and had been sent loads of pictures and even a short video already though.

> The best time to vet prospective owners is when you don't actually have any puppies
>
>

Yes we often do this, one couple who came once the wife was terrified of adult gsd,s, this was a no no, another couple had waited for a pup since before  the litter was born, booked a male, visited every single week, time came to take him home, all well! told them to expect puppy to cry at night for a while, next morning the girl rings me in tears "pup cried all night" i told her he would settle soon as he was feeling lonely etc, another night he cried, next morning she turned up on my doorstep with the pup and said she couldnt handle his crying at night it was too upsetting for her, unbelievable!!!!!!!!! i took the pup, gave her a full refund, i gave her a hug and said dont worry about it he will find a new home soon, im soft like that,

I had a family come and meet my dogs on Saturday. I was vetting them for a friend as she lives Up North. Now, bearing in mind this lady had been emailing most people in my breed as desperate for a puppy, she had already mentioned moulting to me over the phone.
Well I just happen to have 2 of mine in full moult at the moment and they chose to wear BLACK jumpers/cardigans!! I'm sure you can all imagine what they looked like after being met by rent-a-mob lol.
She also made a point of getting hold of 2 of my dogs heads and smelling them!!! I suppose there's a first time for everything.
I haven't heard anything from her since, I'm waiting to hear if she's contacted my friend. Do you think we may have made them think again?

> I haven't heard anything from her since, I'm waiting to hear if she's contacted my friend. Do you think we may have made them think again?

Hum! sounds like it,

> She also made a point of getting hold of 2 of my dogs heads and smelling them!!!

This may be because she had read that our breeds don't have the characteristic doggy smell.

Oh yes the mass onslaught of excited dogs is pretty telling

Previous shepherd, we spoke to breeder few times, lot of questions etc, we (me, OH and adult daughter) went up to see pups and other dogs. Pups in run outside, we went in and were put in lowish chairs then pups mum uncle, gran and 2 other adults were let in. ended up with uncle -LARGE male looming over me with toy in mouth asking for game. Breeder said she was partly guided by his reaction to people and their reaction to him. Had turned down 1 couple as he definatly wasn't comfortable with them in his house. THEN we were allowed to meet pups and given the choice between 2 out of the 5 males in litter.
Chris

We like to do the "rent-a-mob" approach as well. I much preffer to meet new owners before the pups are born. If they can cope with 24 stone of hairy (often) damp smelly Bernese and the dogs like them then we can got down to the vetting business.
I never take a deposit and that way it gives me the right to change my mind at any time. If I am not happy they just do not get a pup and thats that.
Send the deposit back and find someone who is a bit more to your liking.
After all they are your babies and you can sell to however you want.
Aileen

When we were picking up our first Leo...
We went to the door, got told to step to the side and the breeder opened the door letting out 10 adults!
I was delighted :), my mum went, god they are big!
She had only ever met 1 Leo in flesh and I suppose having 10 bouncing around you is different feeling to 1 calm dog on the lead.
I'm glad the breeder did not turn us away based on my mums first comment, she could have!

18 years down the line,we both still our own Leos (I don't live at home anymore) and I don't think either of us will settle for other breed soon.
When we lost our oldie few years ago, I did try to talk my mum to have a smaller dog, she though I was nuts even suggesting another breed!

I remember when i went to see the breeder of my eldest for the first time. I went along with my Dad and to note this was before any mating had taken place.
We entered the house and then ALL the dogs were let in, lots of them.. Jumping up at us, i loved it and was in my element and wanted to take her Ch boy home with me, still love him..
I knew there and then that this was sooo the breed for me, even though i had spent a lot of time at shows and on the phone to people in the know in my breed..

I'm not a breeder but there is no way that i would allow a pup go to someone i hadn't met or hadn't been vetted by someone in the breed that i really trusted..

I so clearly remember going to see my first puppy -my very first dog had been an adult rescue. This was in 1984. :) There were about 15 adult dogs and I couldn't take my eyes or hands off them, the puppies almost didn't count at all. I always feel the same, puppies are cute but the adults will tell you what they are likely to grow up as.

One of my best experiences as a breeder was one litter where a couple had made enquiries about a pup. Answered all the questions, told me a lot, I was very happy with what I'd heard. What I'd forgotten to ask them was if they had any children, so when they turned up to view, they came complete with a toddler still not really able to walk. I was taken aback at first, but when the entire family happily sat down on the floor and let the adult dogs jump all over them, including the kid, everyone happy, I was convinced. :)

Then you have the really awkward buyers like the one I DIDN'T encounter yesterday. Not puppy buyers, but I'm sure it happens there as well, this time it was kittens. Lady got in touch, asked  a lot of questions, I asked a lot, explained a lot, she emailed and phoned and all seemed fine, we set a date and time for a visit. We waited and waited and she never turned up. Didn't even bother to phone or email. I'll never understand people like that -it's as if they think breeders are like petshops, open all day, nothing else to do. We could have been out in the sunshine wt the dogs for those 2 hours we sat around waiting!