Hi all, how do you get your dogs to do an instant down at a distance. all of my dogs are pretty obedient and can do instant downs when nearby, but would like to perfect an instant down when they are some distance away - especially with the monsters high chase drive! At the mo I can get Mauser to do it at a distance but only when he is already heading back towards me! But would love to be able to train them all to do it the minute I shout the command - you know an instant drop! Any advice will be most welcome - even if it isn't the norm way of achieving it! Julie:)

A 12 bore will have an instant result ... I jest of course ;-)

Do you use a whistle and/or hand signals at all? My dogs are whistle/hand signal trained at close quarters. Making sure that they do it first time ~ every time, then when I am confident that they have mastered this, I expect be able to get them to do it at any distance :-) Having said that, I don't really require my dogs to drop into a *down*. Because they work I need them to stop/sit/stay, so what I have done is teach them to stop/sit to the whistle and then I use a *different* hand and signal and no whistle command to drop them. As long as you can perfect it at close range,you should be able to drop them at any distance :-) Do you take your dogs out individually to train?

Hi Leigh, I have tried whistle training with Mauser more than the other two, mainly because he is a b****r for hunting birds in the undergrowth and bushes and usually disappears, and you can only locate him from the flush of birds:D with the whistle I have taught him to 'come' on two blasts - so that makes sense for my purposes then to train a 'down' to say 'one peep'. In theory then - if they know 'one peep' means drop down, they should do it any distance from me, whether it be close or far away? (they all know a hand signal for down, so I could retrain with handsignal and peep until they get the idea) I suppose one of the probs with a voice command for distance control is that they can't always hear me (not selective hearing then!) and if they are away from me, aren't facing to see the signal - so the whistle should work!

oooooh - I can be like 'One girl and her Monster' :D - Didn't think of the whistle - thanks Leigh! Julie:)

Julie,
if you look at some of the past threads on whistle training, they might give you some other ideas too :-) Here is one to be going on with : whistle training. What sort of whistle did you/do you use?

Leigh, I use a ACME 210 1/2, but would actually like a louder one, I was unsure which way the pitches worked! My local gunshop has relocated but I don't know where to, I haven't had chance to look them up - it was Greenfields in Canterbury - I didn't realise there had been past threads on whistle training - I will look it up - thanks Julie:)

Julie, can I ask you why you need a louder one? You make them louder by blowing them harder :D But if your dog has ignored you the first time, he will undoubtably ignore you even if you blow it harder ;-) Unless, you buy an Acme Thunderer, that will stop a cart horse in its tracks :rolleyes: I use a 210 1/2 too :-) You can buy other acmes 211 1/2 and some more, but all that is different is the *tone* not the level to my knowledge.

Personally, I use Turner Richards for my gundog equipement. But if you are stuck for somewhere local to you, I have friends/family who live in Thanet and I can make some enquiries for you if you like.

I bought the 211 1/2 by accident and it is higher pitched than the 210 1/2. I wouldn't say it is any louder.

Helen

Leigh - a friend of mine has a different pitch'd one to mine and hers it much much louder - unless she's just got a bigger gob than me:D But seriously, mine lets out a very high but not very loud peep, I always wondered if it was faulty? I'll order a different pitch and one the same (the Thunderer sounds just the job:D) from Turner Richards - they aren't expensive, so its no biggy if it isn't any different, although I got a different pitched one on purpose because we used to train our dogs alot together. I used to like looking in Greenfields, the next nearest gunshop is Ashford I think? - Family in planet thanet aye? They have probably seen me and my unruly mob then! Thanks for the offer that's very kind of you! Julie:)

ps oh god, you're not related to my vet are you? - I didn't mean he was passed his prime in the looks department honest :D - he is a shooting man too! :D

I think you are confusing "Loud". Loud is what we hear but as we get older we loose the high and low ends of our hearing and only tend to hear the bit in the middle. (My hearing is damaged anyway through too many years in a test bed so don’t even hear the middle bits that well!) Our dogs hearing of high notes is so much better than ours so there is no doubt your dog is hearing the whistle. That said, only two things are left:- A/ He doesn’t know what it means or B/ He isn’t interested in complying! I can blow the stop whistle when Anna is two fields over and she will stop.

When you whistle your dog, whether it's a stop or recall whistle your dog MUST obey! Never allowed to disobey! It is an order, not a request. Do that and you will have perfect whistle control.

Regards, John

Hi John, its not the dogs that have trouble with the whistle volume - its me:D ! It really doesn't sound very loud to me at all , so I was assuming it needed to be more audible (don't know why!)- Mauser can hear it wherever he is and he comes to two peeps, he is pretty good with it:D Does that mean I'm going a bit *mutton* in my old age - now you come to mention it - I suppose it doesn't matter how loud it sounds to us, as you couldn't have a lot of people using whistles in the field that were really loud, could you?, everyone soon would be a bit hard of hearing (bit like myself:D) John, you are absolutely right, I am confusing loud! Thankyou for your help :) You've saved me some money too - I don't need a new whistle now - it makes sense - perhaps I was expecting those ghastly 'carnival' type whistles, the ones that make you wince with pain! I can see what Leigh meant when she was querying the *loud* in my question! :D

The thing is, they are designed to be into a dogs best hearing range, not ours. So the volume they hear it at is not the same as us.

The different numbers, (pitch) is supposedly so more than one person could blow a whistle at the same time without confusing the dogs, but quite frankly, I think it's more the way we blow it rather than the different pitch which allows the dog to work on our own whistle when someone else is blowing one.

The Thunderer is often used by the keeper to signify the end of a drive so you would not be popular if you blew one of those on some shoots! I could just imagine the guns on the shoot I pick up on putting their guns away and walking off before the drive had passed through! I have a feeling they might just use me for target practise!!!

Regards, John

LOL - Thanks John! - I don't shoot with my dogs, I was coming more from the obedience angle of whistle controlling my spaniels (who are all working lines) - but , I would have thought I would be a welcome addition to any shoot with my ACME Thunderer and my Blunderbus!!!! - not! :D :D :D LOL thank you for all your help it has made the 'whistle' pitch thing a lot clearer for me! Julie:)

Oh my Muddydogs, you are talking way out of my league. I'm gratefull if mine even look up to let me know they have heard, which gives me time to wave a biscuit in the air, they seem to smell a good deal better than they hear. Peskie hounds. Ja:)kie

LOL Jackie,

Mine respond when I shout "come" but they run LOL

( Little angels) Pam

In the opposite direction I take it Pam. Have always said that hounds should not have dew claws but 2 fingers, so they can wave them in the air at you, when you call them. In fact when you ask them to do anything.
Ja:)kie

LOL @ Jackie....... Only hounds though, what about naughty little Mockodiles :D :D

Beth

Jackie..

You are right again in the opposite direction.. the turn their little heads as if to say ..try and catch me...

air becomes blue..

Pam

LOL Jackie, that was my thought too. If I can get them to come back from a distance, I'm delighted :).

I have a friend who taught their dog to respond to 'Watch', which would get their attention even when at a distance, then with the dog looking at them attentively they responded to normal commands. Think they did it by holding a finger to their chin, which the dog had learnt to think was a treat! DOn't know if getting their attention like this first would help?

:)

Hi arwenwulf, I do a 'watch me' with close obedience work and find it useful especially if we are walking through somewhere busy - which they all know, but have no hope when they are free running over the fields, only Decoy will still 'watch' when out, and thats because I have what he wants - his ball!!!:) You get that command from starting with 'whats this?' showing a treat and holding it near your mouth and slowly change it to 'watch me' using the finger up by your mouth, thus fooling them into always believing there's something yummy in the offing and they need to look at your face, I also praise if they happen to be looking at me whilst watching telly,etc, "are you watching, good boy, watch me" kind of thing - but then of course I'm due to be carted off shortly and no doubt sectioned under the mental health act!!!:D Julie:)

I have always just used a long lead and slowly keep working my way farther and farther away until I am at the distance I need (for sit/down stays) then take off the lead in a closed area (duh) and work form close and go farther and farther out again.

A very similar method i was shown was to train the Down and generalise it to different locations, so the dog will obey eventually even when there are mega big distractions.

Then start to teach the distance part of it by say, tying dog on lead to a table leg in house, asking for Down, then reward, then ask for Down but move 2 steps away, etc. The dog usually offers different behaviours but will usually offer the down at some point.

Keep doing this and very gradually get further and further away over the weeks ahead. This will get the dog used to Down away from the owner :) I used a clicker to mark the correct behaviour.

I got good results too from just asking for a Down before throwing fav. toy (remember to use the release word such as OK, just before chucking toy) and you can gradually ask for Downs further and further away. A toybesotted dog will learn this quickly :)

Lindsay

Hi Lindsay and puppyraiser - I do a 'down' before throwing toys because cookie (GSD/Collie) is rather too enthusiastic and trys to grab the toy before you throw it, and as I have small kids, I decided to teach downs before he are allowed to retrieve a toy (didn't want him jumping up for it). At obedience club the method they teach is to chuck a toy, send away for the retrieve and then run after your dog and as it is picking up the toy, push them into a down, shouting 'down' - I don't find this works with mine! they either try to get to the toy too quickly, before I can keep up with them which invariably they get there before me in any case! and it was a bit fumbly to push them down, as they were kind of expecting a retrieve and 'geared up' to hold and bring it back! I have thought about using a stairgate and getting position work in from the other side - but wondered if this would cause problems as in initially only being able to teach it indoors? I like the whistle idea as they already come to whistle and could combine the two ideas , getting in the whistle as the signal! as I can't always shout that loud, especially on the beach! thanks everyone for all your help:) Julie:)