At what age should I be letting my dog be used as a stud?  I have had numerous requests for pups from my little guy, but am hesitant to let him breed too soon. 

I should mention that he has expressed "interest" but I am not entirely sure he knows what to do.  He has been "boffing" his spayed sister in the ear, head, leg, occasionally gets the right location!  Also, he is a toy crossbreed fyi

We tend not to promote crossbreeding on here

I have a feeling this thread might blow up but ignoring he is a cross breed Id say.... first of all read the 'Should I use my dog at Stud' section on this site and ask yourself could you cope if his temp changes, and are you aware you would be as responsible for a litter as the bitch owner esp if any of the pups showed heriditary defects etc.

Nobody would breed their dog without him being tested in the ring or the field, health tests have to be done ie. HD, ED and eye tests etc etc  so he would be about 18 months old as he has to be a certain age before he has had the tests and passes. If you cant tick these off then don't breed with him.

Why do you want to use him?  

I apologize. I am new to this site and was just surfing the web looking for information on responsible breeding practises.  My reasons for wanting to breed "Dash" is that he seems to have garnered all the positive aspects of his cross-breeding.  I am a very responsible and caring pet owner and was not really interested in breeding Dash, but have had so many requests for a pup from any litter he may have (including his vet!).  He is the embodiment of all that is good in a small dog, great temperament, clear intelligent eyes, no current hip/joint issues and is vet checked regularly.  It may be "gushy" to be so concerned for him but I consider him one of the family and given all the normal care and attention I would to a child.  I have not decided to breed him as yet...I was just looking for useful information.  His vet has mentioned that it would be a shame to let all his "good genes" go to waste.  My choice for a bitch for him would be diligently screened as well.  Is it the opinion of this forum that no dog should be cross-bred?

yes thats the general opinion, me included, whats the point?  The point of breeding is that you should be trying to improve on every generation to improve the BREED, to me crossbreeding is just producing pups for the sake of it. I have had many requests for my males for crossbreds or un-kc registered breeds, both of which i have no interest in playing any part in.
Just my opinion.

You haven't mentioned a single good reason why this dog should be bred from. Having no joint problems at 8 months is certainly no indication of future health. Having a lovely temperament etc is nice for your little pet but as a cross breed there is absolutely no guarantee that any of the pups will turn out remotely like him. I assume from your flag you're in canada? I'm don't know what the situation is like there but here in the UK rescue centres are full to bursting with lovely little dogs that would make perfect pets - point everyone who has inquired about a pup in their direction.

> It may be "gushy" to be so concerned for him but I consider him one of the family and given all the normal care and attention I would to a child

I think you'll find that people on this forum do also give their dogs the utmost care, attention and thought - but we extend that out to the breeds best welfare and the dog population as a whole.

Thank you for your opinion, and I agree with you to a certain extent.  Although history shows that many of the current "pure-breds" are a result of cross-breeding, surely you cannot deny that!  I am not interested in starting a new line of breeding, but many people do not want or care if their beautiful dog is "pure"...they just want a healthy pet.  My thought was to breed Dash once, but thanks to the helpful information I have garnered on this website, I am having seconds thoughts, ie, I would not want a change in his temperament...a big issue for me and one that will probably be a deal breaker.  Thank you for all the helpful information.

I would just cherish him as a pet. He sounds lovely, and it sounds like you are doing a great job with him. It would be a shame to ruin his lovely temperament and risk his life by breeding him- mating is a VERY risky activity. Once he's had one he will want more, what he hasn't had he won't miss... Thats the way I always look at it

And by the way, yes, we have the same shelters bursting the seams.  I think it is a horror what some people will do with their animals.  To avoid this, responsible breeders take monetary deposits in advance from thorougly screened purchasers to ensure proper placement of their pups.  Pure bred or not, it would be the same practice I would follow as well if I chose to breed Dash, however, that seems unlikely now given the information I have learned here.

The only reason that people are against cross breeds is that.... though you boy is great he is unlikely as a cross to pass it onto the pups more to do with geno markers bringing certain traits would be more watered down does that make sense so his pups would most likely not look like him, also with cross breeds there are no real guides on health tests so its kinda like 'pot luck'. At 8 months old you cant tell if he carries any problems im afraid that even your vet cant tell at this stage, ONLY proper screening will tell.

Our cross bred dog has just hit 5 years old and she is.. incontinant, has fits, skin problems and is gradually getting sicker she wont last another year this only started to show in the last 12 months so in theory if we bred her all the puppies would also have the same problems  .

Your vet can get into a lot of trouble for encouraging you to breed your boy and to be honest its one person to say "Id love a puppy" but its a different kettle of fish to actually have one you might find these willing people are less willing when it comes to the crunch.

As I said you can get great advice in the "should I use my dog at stud section"

Its not that people on here are against cross breeds most of us on here have them, but you have to remember many people on here have been breeding for years I don't mean they breed lots of litters, the top breeder in my breed has just had a litter after 4 years, its that they spend lots of time and money getting the best possible healthy dogs.

Stud dog owners don't look for a bitch to breed with, its the bitch owners that ask the stud, also we keep a intact male and female, have you been around a pining male when a bitch is in heat??? Could you live with the noises?

Im sorry but just enjoy him as a friend/much loved family pet don't breed him

Triona
     

Can I ask why he's been seen so often by your vet?  Not much of a vet either to say that their are no health problems, you can only tell regarding, hips, eyes, elbows etc. etc. by having certain tests not by looking at a dog.

My dogs aren't seen one year to the next by my vet, the only time in reality that they see them is for puppy vacc's, booster and then for x-rays for their hips to be scored.  Other than that they just wouldn't ever see them and definitely would only have been seen twice during their first 8 months and that wd. just be for their puppy vaccinations.

Thank you, Tanya.  I have decided not to breed him.  He is a lovely little boy and very dear to me.  You know us seniors, we seem to be very attached to our pets and I would not put him in harm's way for anything.  I needed this information to be sure and now I am.  Not that I don't believe he may have made a good "papa" but I did not realize or think about how his temperament would change and I agree, once he's had it, he will want more.  At the moment there is not an aggressive bone in his body, he is well socialized and loves everyone and all of his canine friends in the dog park.  I would not want to change that.  Thanks again, to all of you, for your help in making my decision.

I'm glad to see that you are reconsidering breeding from your boy, Lady - as he is a cross, you couldn't guarantee that any offspring would look like him, nor that they would have his characteristics.   You have taken good advice and you can cherish your boy and be proud of him - why not try training him for obedience or maybe what about training him as a PAT (Pets as Theraphy) dog???

Re the vet question - I don't know how it works in the UK, but here we schedule the first vet visit within a week of birth and first set of shots, then 30 days later - 2nd set of shots, 30 days after that is final set of shots, except for rabies.   He had his rabies shot at 6 months.  I have two puppies (his sister, Daisy).  I usually take them both in together, so when Daisy went to be spayed, I took Dash along to the vet as well.  My vet weighed and gave a general phsyical to Dash at the same time.  It wasn't necessary, but very nice of my vet.  I think my vet is well within her scope of competence in saying that currently he doesn't show any signs of health issues.  That is not to say he may not develop some later on, but since he is checked regularly we will know that when the time comes, right?

Thanks Lokis - that is exactly what I plan to do.  My profession was in the health care system here, working with palliative cancer patients and I have seen the joy and stress relief a well behaved dog can bring to someone's life that is about to end.  It is a very moving experience and Daisy and Dash fit the bill perfectly.  They are both well mannered, loving little dogs that love nothing better than to curl up beside someone and lay their head down.  Our hospice centres allow pets to visit and we will be attending their pet therapy orientation this summer to learn how to become pet therapists.

That sounds like the perfect thing to do

For reference in the uk most puppies have their injections done before they leave or at least 1, they get a check up with the new owner as stated in puppy contracts and only see the vet again for boosters or health tests. Unless they take ill then they go in but otherwise if the dogs are healthy they don't see the vet very often at all.

Triona - that's very interesting.  I am not sure that everyone follows the practises that I do, but I think generally, most take their dogs in for 6 month checkups.  If they have established a good rapport with their vet, most take the dogs in that often for comparison checks, much like mammograms, the vet can tell if their has been any significant change in the dog.  All results are computerized here and all the vet has to do is check previous records.  A vet checkup usually costs approx. $55.00, a small price to pay for peace of mind.  I have also had some routine bloodwork done, just to ensure that there is a "marker" for future tests and any changes that may ensue.  In Daisy's case, her early checkups showed that she had a weakness in her hips, (they tend to "pop" out, and sure enough an overly friendly wheaten terrier put his paw down too hard and popped one out, so off to the vet to help my little hop-along Cassidy get fixed up again.  She's fine now, but it was a relief to know early on that Yorkshire's may have a tendency towards this fault and that it was not a life threatening disease.  All the previous discussions I have had here, have solidified my opinion that certain things show up in one dog that may not show up in another.  Dash is one solid little boy, and probably has more bichon in him, while Daisy is much more delicate and has many more Yorkie traits.  They had different mothers, but same father (mom's were pb Bicon, father was pb Yorkie).

And..just to mention, I do not disagree with any of the breeding comments that were made here.  It is very obvious in my 2 little pups that there is a vast difference in physical composition.  I realized early on that Daisy may have health issues in future and one of the reasons I had her spayed at the earliest opportunity.  However, that does not lessen the love I feel for her and the really great thing is that they seem to have both inherited the same great temperament.  I can only hope that she will not develop any further health issues and that Dash will continue on as his own sturdy, little soldier self.

Is she his litter sister did you say?  If so and she has health problems then there's the possibility that he could throw the same health problems in any of his pups.

Not having a go at you at all, but just a warning.

No, she is not a litter sister, but is a half sister (?).  They have different mothers, but the same father and were born a week apart.

I think you have reached the right conclusion to cherish him as a pet and forget letting him be used at stud.  The more info I read scrolling down the clearer it becomes that he should not be bred from.  On top of the excellent advise about not knowing which traits, if any, would pass to his offspring, the fact that his sister has hip problems could potentially pop up in you boys offspring, it is so hard to know how inherited traits will appear in crosses - caring breeders have done years of research and careful breeding, DNA tests etc to try and minimise problems in individual breeds, but with crosses you don't have a clear picture about what may happen, genetic problems are no respectors of breed, if 2 dogs of different breeds carry the problem gene they can pass it on, so the fact his sister has issues is quite likely to be carried by your boy too.  The other thougth which occurred to me right at the begining was that you boy is a toy breed cross - from my experience toy dogs when used at stud are very likely to lose their housetraining, and will "territory mark" anytime, anywhere.  They become very macho, still loving, but very much aware of their maleness.  This is much more apparent in toys than bigger dogs - I have pugs and american cocker spaniels, with only 1 exception all of my pug boys have changed completley after mating a bitch, whilst there is much less noticeable change with the spaniel boys.

> My reasons for wanting to breed "Dash" is that he seems to have garnered all the positive aspects of his cross-breeding.

The thing is with crossbreeding you will not have the same effects repeated in the next generation or even in a repeat of the same cross.

When a breed is developed many litters are bred, those with the traits desired are selected, the rest rejected, so the people breeding need to know what the ultimate aim is in looks, attitude/temperament, abilities etc is.

This process is repeated over and over in the first crosses, then the next generations it happens again, but this time there will be e even fewer of the type wanted as 2nd generation crosses are even more variable.

This is why in my opinion, with over 200 breeds available that breed true to type, it is not in this day and age responsible to set out to create something new, when you realise how much wastage (pups that need homes that can't/shouldn't  be used to further the project) there will be even to start to achieve the breeders aims.

In my local pub there is a very cute white deliberate cross between a tiny toy breed and a curly coated one (no health screenign on parents). 

He looks very much like a Havanese, or a very unkempt Maltese.  So there was absolutely no point to his parents being mated, people who wanted a pup that looked that way could easily have gone to a  breeder of the above mentioned breed, who patella test their stock,a nd know and can research the health and temperament of their bloodlines for generations.

Now lets take your little dog.  Has he had his patellas checked?  Has he been eye tested. Did his parents have these tests and do you know the results.  Do you know what the parents, grandparents at the very least were like in health temperament, what did the older ones die of and at what ages. 

These are all things the responsible pedigree breeder can find out about their dogs/bitches background before deciding if the background is suitable for breeding on from, and then do the health and other testing (showing/temperament/ability) on their individual.  Then they have to do the same about the prospective mate. 

So Stud dog owners need to know even more than the bitch owners.