So we have a Rottie, and an Akita (sorry I dont know what the other BOB were) But....
Will crufts give the RIGHT image of the breed or do the bad thing and people get them just because they have won crufts????
I one way I was pleased the Rottie got through as I have one and want them shown as good dogs not bad (especially when the cporgi was having a go at the rottie and the rottie just looked at it!!!!) But then realised that it was probably a bad thing as the back lash from being BIS lives on even now years later !!!!
Lea :)

And OMG the female presenter has just questioned the German shepherds breeding and back and said that it needs to be straighter,
That would NEVER have happened on BBC!!!!!
The only thing that I didnt like about that was that kisko(sp) said you should go to a KC accredited breeder!!!!
Lea :)

Rottie
Cardigan Corgi
Scottish Terrier
Pharaoh Hound
Akita
Maltese
A Gundog

I think it will be a Gundog or the Corgi.... I am cautious about the Rott or Akita for the same reasons as you...

> And OMG the female presenter has just questioned the German shepherds breeding and back and said that it needs to be straighter,<br />That would NEVER have happened on BBC!!!!!

It might have done, had the BBC carried on with its coverage; Claire Balding was the presenter on the BBC too.

Aha thats the name, age creeping up on me. Claire baldoing would NEVER have been allowed to question the BOB if crufts was shown on BBC still!!!!
Lea :)

> Aha thats the name, age creeping up on me. Claire baldoing would NEVER have been allowed to question the BOB if crufts was shown on BBC still!!!!

How do we know that, though..? The Beeb pulled out straight after THAT programme... so had they continued, who is to say the subject wouldn't still have come up, with the forthcoming CC restrictions?

That idiot male presenter it just me or was he actually taking the mick when he was shown the King Charles and Pappillons???

He's rather weird isn't he and you can tell that in reality he's not a dog person.

Did think the GSD looked awful though on the move.

>Did think the GSD looked awful though on the move.

It truly was appalling. To be honest, if that's considered the best that the global GSD fraternity can produce, they've got their ideas screwed. I've seen sounder pet GSDs in the street.

Scottie was a beauty and excellent mover for such a short legged breed.

Went today and really enjoyed it.   Unfortunately some judges are still putting up the same exaggerations they always have.   Having watched the footage on TV for the last few days the German Shepherd dog mentioned was frankly a disgrace to the dog showing world.

I was realy suprised at the reporting of the GSD. A  judge that the kennel club had appointed, deemed this dog best of breed. It is the fault of the judge to award a prize to a deformed dog or was this just the camera angle. The programme was insinuating that show gsds are all this shape and the fault of the breeders.Judges can with-hold a prize if none are deemed good enough and if they all looked like the shots shown this is what should happen with a respected judge, or was the programme saying that the judges are in the breeders pockets. I think the programme unfairly discriminated against the GSD as many breeds have faults that cause health problems, not only the gsds.There is a war going on between the kennel club and the gsd fraternity and the programme was just pandering to the kennel club.

> the German Shepherd dog mentioned was frankly a disgrace to the dog showing world.

I might be tottaly mistaken on this and it could have been a trick of the editing - bear in mind they don't have much time to edit the online streaming - but did the judge look towards the GSD when choosing his cut, with a grimace on his face at one point?  Or did I imagine that.... it was a very split second thing.

i totally agree with you with the gsd it looked horrible when walking lets hope people will agree and help wipe this out in the breed love gsds but have seen better walking streets

I do not show or own a gsd but I was at a gsd breed club show this year as a spectator and not one of the dogs in reality looked like the one shown in the clip.

it was the "germanic" type GSD not the "alsation" type maybe now people will be aware of the difference when the two types are seen together personally the i prefer the "alsation" type closer to the KC standard with stronger back ends

What an idiot that male presenter was! where did they find him!

Of the dogs ...the Maltese I would like to see get it !
But the best dog there was the Pharaoh hound   ... for me that is!

> And OMG the female presenter has just questioned the German shepherds breeding and back and said that it needs to be straighter

I never saw it but a friend mentioned it this morning what the presenter had said, i never noticed the dogs back as my own dog was in the same class.
And as for KC accredited breeder thats a farce, they even register litters with parents being 50+ hipscores, anyone can be a KC accredited breeder if they want to be, its not worth the paper its written on sometimes, dont get me wrong im not slagging the Kc accredited breeders off that do all the proper health checks and only breed of suitable animals, good on them.

the male presenter is a prat.. he is always like that no matter what show he is on ...I cant for the life of me think why they gave him that job.

Better when its recorded as you can fast forward through his idiotic comments. What annoys me is that for all the wasted time they spend on him walking around the stalls talking rubbish we could be looking at the dogs in the rings.

> So we have a Rottie, and an Akita (sorry I dont know what the other BOB were) But....
> Will crufts give the RIGHT image of the breed or do the bad thing and people get them just because they have won crufts????
> I one way I was pleased the Rottie got through as I have one and want them shown as good dogs not bad (especially when the cporgi was having a go at the rottie and the rottie just looked at it!!!!) But then realised that it was probably a bad thing as the back lash from being BIS lives on even now years later !!!!
> Lea :-)
>

I doubt that highly. A few years back a GS won and there was no upsurge in the GS population. I think it's worse when a small breed wins.

I think Claire was only saying what the majority of people think about modern GSDs - a lot of them look awful and can't move properly.

the male presenter reminds me of Mr bean ! surely they could choose someone more appropriate who actually knew what a dog was

> the male presenter reminds me of Mr bean !

nooo he's not Mr Bean, he's the bloke on the Lloyds Bank adverts!!!!!! LOL

cant think who the lloyds bank man is atm ? keep thinking about the halifax bloke no thats not right lol

> cant think who the lloyds bank man is atm ?

Cartoon bloke with a pointy nose? who seems a bit naïve? (oh no I don't believe I just said that!!! but he did take an armadillo into the shower with him. And bought a goldfish in a bowl. Oh and a puppy at one point - whatever happened to the puppy????)

If the alsation type is the best type for health why do the judges not give firsts to this type? these are the people who influence the breeders who only want the rosette. Also why do the kennel club not appoint judges who prefer this type in preference to the germanic type?

> If the alsation type is the best type for health why do the judges not give firsts to this type? these are the people who influence the breeders who only want the rosette. Also why do the kennel club not appoint judges who prefer this type in preference to the germanic type?

I think that Crufts have appointed the Alsation type judge next year, and the year after, so i was told.
I'm not a GSD person so not sure how true this is.

Peanuts

some judges like the germanic type!!! they think it is the correct GSD. but next year should be very different with some very nice dogs that can move properly

next year should be very different with some very nice dogs that can move properly

IMO this is very disrespectful to the breeders, owners and dogs who were entered in this years show.

> IMO this is very disrespectful to the breeders, owners and dogs who were entered in this years show.

So do i, its each to their own which type of GSD people prefer, we prefer the Germanic style after all this is where they originated from, doubt we will go next year or the year after with the English style judges,

others are of the same opinion of the GSD movement just read the other comments

The other comments were read matter of course!

The comments were made by posters who may not be familiar with the breed standard and have never owned a GSD and possibly have little to no knowledge of the breed.

Not unsimiliar to yourself with a statement you made on a previous post stating there were 2 types of GSDs and that straight backs have better temperaments! You were corrected by a more knowledgable poster and you then backtracked stating you didn't wish to get into politics!

>The comments were made by posters who may not be familiar with the breed standard and have never owned a GSD and possibly have little to no knowledge of the breed.

And you know that how, exactly?

you are correct about not wanting to get into the politics, but not correct about me not knowing about GSDs i have 7 of them at the mo and have had them for 25 years

By gaby   Date 14.03.10 01:44 GMT I do not show or own a gsd but I was at a gsd breed club show this year as a spectator and not one of the dogs in reality looked like the one shown in the clip.

Those that like the 'Alsatian' type obviously haven't seen any recently!  Look more like a corgi cross, with saggy backs, too short legs, heads too big and strung up on cheese wire!!  They often have dubious temperaments and very few have the recommended health tests done.

The KC also insulted a lady in a display team with a 5 month old GSD, saying it was not the sort of GSD they want at Crufts so would not let her join the display and chucked her out!!!!  I have never heard anything so awful!!! She had been in the breed for 40 years.

Unsoundness does not kill a dog - why are they not taking away ccs from other breeds with health problems which do?

>Unsoundness does not kill a dog

??? Really? Are you sure that no dogs have ever had to be put to sleep because of poor hips; because their owners cannot bear to watch them struggling with a life of pain?

I have to admit to feeling despair over the future of GSDs when their breeders and owners cannot see what's right in front of their noses :-(  What hope does anyone have of improving the breed when people think it's ok to be unsound because you like the germanic type over the english. It's ok to have back legs that can barely support the dog moving because you prefer it's head, or it's topline or something ridiculous like that?

my fur kids have had their hips and elbows done and they are the correct height for breed standard they also work the cattle on my farm and swim in the river on my land, very much fit for function

Unsoundness does not kill a dog
saying this sounds like you think it is OK to breed dogs that are not sound just because they have the look you like. It may not directly kill a dog, but surely it is cruel to inflict a life of discomfort  and disablility on a  dog for the sake of fashion?
and what is the point of having a dog that looks nice if it can no longer fulfil its original purpose. the Police and armed forces are already moving away from GSDs towards Malinois as they are a much more  sound dog without the health problems. if they carry on like this for a few more years, there will be no GSDs fit enough to work.

> I have to admit to feeling despair over the future of GSDs when their breeders and owners cannot see what's right in front of their noses :-(

Me too Tigger2. These are beautiful dogs, messed up by breeders who couldn't see the wood for the trees. They are so entrenched in their own positions, and so determined that those in the other camp are wrong, that these poor dogs will keep suffering. I wish they would just take a good honest look at the dogs and try to repair some of the damage they have done.
I was really pleased to hear during the judging of the rotties etc that these dogs need the right owners - they were really emphasizing the point for once

> I have to admit to feeling despair over the future of GSDs when their breeders and owners cannot see what's right in front of their noses

I could not agree more, i was at crufts on thrusday and yesterday. I went and watched a few GSD classes and i cannot for the life of me understand how dogs with back ends that look virtually dead can be desirable. How can these dogs be healthy? It was actually quite sad to see.

On a more positive note i was lucky enough to be in the main ring for BIS and i had my money on the Vizsla or the maltese. They were all exeptional and although not a breed i have ever been drawn to, i thought the rottie was a cracking example of the breed, and i was hoping he would take it.

can not agree more, we are not blind to faults in the"alsation" but the shape and movement has not dramatically changed since the 50s the same cannot be said for germanic type

presumably everyone is saying that the long leg look is better than the sloping back which i asume is why they often have bad hips?  how can changing the judge at crufts next year suddenly make the dogs all have longer legs and no slope- doesnt it take years to breed that out?

The unsoundness the kc refer to is in the length of the hocks, and nothing to do with their hips!  I am not saying that unsoundness is ok at all - it's just that there are many, many worse problems in other breeds which are life threatening and painful. GSD people are jusifiably feeling victimised by the kc.  Germanic breeders/owners are following the standards of the WUSV in Germany, which obviously where the GSD comes from.  The English type must be blind to the faults of their dogs, otherwise why refuse to carry out health tests, and put animals in the ring which are far too short in the leg, too saggy on the back, etc etc.

>Germanic breeders/owners are following the standards of the WUSV in Germany, which obviously where the GSD comes from.

All GSD breeders in the UK should be breeding to the UK standard. This requires a back which is straight (not level) from withers to croup; the bend at the start of the lumbar spine is wrong.

Germanic breeders/owners are following the standards of the WUSV in Germany, which obviously where the GSD comes from.

If the Germans are also breeding unsound  dogs with the same problems then maybe the British breeders should break away from them and start breeding for soundness again. Just because the Germans originally started breeding GSDs doesn't make them right now.

I am not saying that unsoundness is ok at all - it's just that there are many, many worse problems in other breeds which are life threatening and painful

Just because other breeds have problems doesn't make it OK for the GSD breeders to carry breeding unsound dogs.  Surely it would be better to tackle the problems now rather than wait until the problems get worse?

GSD people are jusifiably feeling victimised by the kc. 

And the KC has to start somewhere trying to rectify the problems. They have amended the standards to a lot of breeds. The GSD breeders as far as I can see are all sticking their heads in the stand and saying they their bred does not have a problem and seem very reluctant to change.

Do the restrictions that the KC have put on the breed clubs regarding CCs and double handling apply to the english type of GSD too? or is it just the Germanic type?

> Unsoundness does not kill a dog - why are they not taking away ccs from other breeds with health problems which do?

Well I for one am thrilled that at long last a member of the breed has admitted they're potentially unsound. Well done - refreshing to hear such candid comments.

i think the GSD stacking should be banned.  and it looks like they are being breed to look like they stand that way. there should be no slope no arch. they shound have strong strait backs and stand free imo

But as others have said its not just the GSD breed, now I could get into a bit of trouble but here I go..... I believe that the BM today are getting too heavy and and carry too many folds on the face. I saw an 18 month old dog at a club meeting last year who could barley make it round the ring because he was so big he also had calluses, I wanted to cry and im seeing more and more like this.

I also think many toy breed have problems, skull shapes, eyes etc etc.

I know that we will only  breed to fit the standard but also for what we like so fit/ athletic could make a 6 bar fence, past health tests even if it means I disregard some of the top winning lines in the country for oversees lines then I will.