Terrier Group 1 the Scottie is not in the catalogue and was a late entry as reported on Dog World site today.  Not my group but I would be pretty peeved if I had been beaten by one who had been allowed to break the KC rules entry declarations.  In fact it still makes me cross as it seems one rule for them and another for use mere mortals who must abide by the rules.  A friend had problems with the  online entry last year for Bath, and rang the online entry manager at 11.45am and was told the glitch was sorted and to try again.  He tried again and still could not make a payment, he rang back at 12.00 non and was told tough luck it was too late as the entries closed 30 seconds ago. 

maybe the forum moderator knows the whole story?

what would be the reason for a late entry normally?

Well there's still time if this is true that their win can be taken away and the runner up take it's place tomorrow. 

Same thing happened to me as your friend.  Had been tring for ages to enter a show and it kept chucking me out, phoned them up at 12 noon and they said I was to late.

Could it have been a  postal entry not arrived in time to go into catalogue, but exhibitor had proof of entry, thereby allowing him to enter, according to KC rules and Regs?

I hope it's for the reason Kayc said, or for a legitimate, non rule breaking reason. If not I think it's a disgrace that they aloud a late entry. The KC have no problem in stripping awards in other areas, so they should do so in this case.

After looking on all of the Crufts results pages I can`t find the ATC number for the Scottie....Should it not have one printed after its name???

Which country did it come from ?

russia i think - i am in the scottie breed but not able to go this year (inherited timeshare holiday), the couple of people i know have not mentioned the dog being a late entry so maybe it has been questioned and all is well. Will have to find out tomorrow perhaps.

It should have an ATC number and it should by KC rules been granted BEFORE date set by the KC that was well before close of entries.  However I don't think they actually post the ATC number on the results, just show it in the catalogue.

They do put the ATC number on the results just looked at some breeds from abroad and they all have them , all our newfie friends from abroad have them on the results.
It should be the same for all dogs from overseas

Peanuts

OK I see they have them for Crufts, though looking back they have not always put them up on Ch show results in the UK.  So does it even have an ATC number?   The other thing I checked is to see if the owner had another dog entered and had to withdraw for some reason and special dispensation was given to substitute but no she does not.

In our breed there were entries who are Ch's in their own countries (that the KC recognise the country titles) and should have been in Open but were in L & PG.  Yet if one of us did something stupid in all innocence like forgetting to change our ring number over we would get hauled over the coals by the KC, fined and have our win stripped, etc.

Not my group but I would be pretty peeved if I had been beaten by one who had been allowed to break the KC rules entry declarations.

Who said they had broken any rules ????  Maybe it is just a genuine error.  It could be many reasons all acceptable.

In fact it still makes me cross as it seems one rule for them and another for use mere mortals who must abide by the rules. 

Who is "them"

A friend had problems with the  online entry last year for Bath, and rang the online entry manager at 11.45am and was told the glitch was sorted and to try again.  He tried again and still could not make a payment, he rang back at 12.00 non and was told tough luck it was too late as the entries closed 30 seconds ago. 

I am sorry but I have never heard any of them be that unreasonable, generally if you phone and there is a problem they take your name, if it still doesn't go through and they can see that you did log on then they take the booking.   Sometimes the events that actually happened are not actually what is claimed by the person trying to enter..   The online sites have been very fair to most I think

Why do people look for the negative rather than the positive.   I would hate to take a first place off someone because of a technical issue , at the end of the day the best dog won. Be pleased for it.

maybe the forum moderator knows the whole story?  The forum moderator of what site?

OOpps touched a nerve did we???

And read other's post thoroughly please before flaming.  The original thread and all responses are under the question WHY / IF?  Not one is accusing just ASKING for the why and wherefore the dog is not in the catalogue.

Last year at Crufts a friend had entered 4 dogs via Fossedata online.  He never got his passes etc.  Fossedata denied the entry but as he had all the confirmation emails and payment receipt the KC allowed him into the show, gave him ring numbers and his dogs were shown.  They were not in the catalogue either.  So we knew he was a legit entry.  That is all we ask of the Scottie story. 

It has been explained on the Crufts Facebook page. The entry had been posted but not received. The exhibitor has proof of postage so was allowed the late entry.

OOpps touched a nerve did we???

Not at all, what a childish reply, how could your negative post touch a nerve. I only saw the little dog on the overview and was pleased to see such a lovely little mover regardless who owns or where it came from. It wouldn't matter what dog it was ,I dont even know it's name. I was just disappointed in your negative post and thought I would point out and encourage some positive reponses. There is and was no need for the negative comments , a question can be asked simply.  You could have just asked the question.    Who is the " we " you keep referring to??  Do you mean "I" as in you?

And read other's post thoroughly please before flaming.

Who flamed? Do you know what flaming means? I know who hit a nerve :-)    The other posts or replies are not the people who put this post up, it was YOUR original post and title and YOUR first and original post I replied to, I have no reason whatsoever to read others they have no baring on or do not alter  your exact original comments , which I replied to.

Not one is accusing just ASKING

You didn't just ask though.

.  That is all we ask of the Scottie story. 

That is not what you asked though.  Who is the " we" again.      You said if you were the scottie folk you would be peeved....... . That wasn't a question.   I think the little dog was a beautiful example of the breed and an example of how good small dogs can move, I am sure the scottie folk were delighted , as dog exhibitors we should all be pleased to see such good examples on the TV and forget the ifs and buts for a change.

Fossedata's system shows everytime you logged on.  If you friend had the reference number Fossedata would not deny the entry.  They are very reasonable people.

I have used the online entry for 7 years , had a few issues over the years but always resolved by the teams quickly IF I was not at fault.

"We" is a commonly used term in ENGLISH grammar FYI.  And  my post was not negative IT ASKED A QUESTION - would you like me to explain the meaning of WHY / ASK???

FYI I have never questioned the quality of the Scottie OR the judges descision.

If you ask around there are many people who have had problems with online entries NOT going through correctly, even for this 2010 Crufts - multiple dogs entered and confirmed by the online email receipt but only one pass and one entry for one of the dogs; dogs sire / dam incorrect even though it is logged udner the owners details and every other show has it correctly listed, and so on.  It is well we are aware of these problems, it could be you next time.

I never said Fossedata did NOT resolve issues - in fact the opposite, but they are STRICT on their date and time of close of entries.

KC rules and regs are there for a reason.  As exhibitors we (here WE go again) are expected to abide by them and if not we are generally penalised.  As you seem to be unaware of show organisation there are lots of hoops to jump through for organisers, including declaration of entries.   IF Crufts accepts late entries don't you think it is acceptable to declare under what terms they do so?  Maybe the Scottie was a late, entry or substitue.  It is not in the catalogue - ORIGINAL QUESTION.  As someone else pointed out it does not have an ATC number - QUESTION.

This is not about the quality of the dog.  It is about entry criteria FULL STOP.  Simple facts, a simple question.

> It is not in the catalogue - ORIGINAL QUESTION.  As someone else pointed out it does not have an ATC number - QUESTION

Under current Rules and Regs, If an exhibitor can supply proof of posting the secretary of the show MUST accept the entry.. paperwork is then sent to the KC, and THEN it will be taken to task... The final decision lays with the KC..

the obvious reason for no ATC no. lays with the above.. entry gone astray..

Instead of bickering would it not be sensible to await the outcome, rather than make assuptions, just because it annoys you...

the judge cannot NOT take the dog out of consideration.. the dog is placed in front of them, they have to judge it.. they are only the judge, not the jury!

I wonder how many of you arguing the toss, would play the proof of entry card, if your entry had gone missing in transit.. or would you just walk away, saying.. oh well, never mind.. It has happened to many of us.. so why, just because it is Crufts, should the rules be any different?

> In our breed there were entries who are Ch's in their own countries (that the KC recognise the country titles) and should have been in Open but were in L & PG.

As long as they tell the Steward and are moved to Open then it is fine.

One year one of the group winners had it's win taken away for exhibiting in Post Graduate when it had won Points in the USA.

Instead of bickering would it not be sensible to await the outcome, rather than make assuptions, just because it annoys you...

Exactly, I can't see anyone drag themselves half way around the world unless they were sure their entry was OK.


I wonder how many of you arguing the toss, would play the proof of entry card, if your entry had gone missing in transit.. or would you just walk away, saying.. oh well, never mind.. It has happened to many of us.. so why, just because it is Crufts, should the rules be any different?   If I was in the same boat I would be there with my proof :-)

Oh dear I have definately upset you :-) I am well aware of what "we" means, but when you register here you are a single member and poster so I couldn't quite understand your use of the word "we".   

if you were only asking a question you only needed your bottom sentence.

You said;

I would be pretty peeved if I had been beaten by one who had been allowed to break the KC rules entry declarations. & 
In fact it still makes me cross as it seems one rule for them and another for use mere mortals who must abide by the rules.

Nobody was beaten as far as you or I know by anyone who broke the rules, nor do the KC let some people break the rules and others not,  not sure who the them is in the  " one rule for them" comment either.

I am quite aware of the KC R&Rs and also how to organise and run a show.. thanks though not sure where I told you or implied I didn't understand show organisation.. another assumption I guess on your part  :-D

Like it or lump it , back peddle if you like  I thought your post was negative so I said so. I think we should be supporting the KC and dog showing in generally just now postively in the public eye..  I try to look for the positive rather than the negative though and await the outcome before guessing someone may have broke the rules ..

I can hardly imagine someone coming from Russia without checking all was OK.