Went to a limit show today, didn't take my girl as she was in season.  Was surprised to see one of the judges witholding a 3rd and 4th in a breed class.

Not something you often see at a limit show, come to think of it can't say I ever have seen it happen except at open and champ shows.

What a brave judge, but if the dogs aren't good examples of the breed, then good on them.

It is about time judges had the courage of their convictions.. it matters not whether at Champ, Open level or a members Limited Show.. If a dog does not come close to the breed standard then it should not earn a place with those who do...

Also to withhold the 3rd and 4th place, they must have come pretty poor... :-(

Good for them, never seen it happen at limit, so it must have been poor specimans of the breed.

Agreed, we need to see more of it especially in terms of CC's, RCC's, stud book qualifiying places and Crufts qualifiers.

Kudos to the judge.

Echoing what other are saying, I really wish more judges had more balls to stick to what they thought...

That and maybe one day judges will judge the dog and not the person. i can live in hope!

I've only seen it a handful of times ever and never at anything less than Champ shows. It would be nice to think that all judges stuck to their guns, sadly it doesn't happen very often.

Whle I would applaud any judge WHO IS A BREED EXPERT with-holding places, I would not applaud a judge who didn't know the breed.  I've lost count of the number of judges who have placed my dogs' front feet 6" apart, when it is a breed characteristic that they have a 'horseshoe' front with forelegs wider apart at chest than at feet!  I've also seen them placed BOB and not be typical of the breed.  This has happened at CC level as well as Open level. 

If it becomes common place to with-hold places, then judges with more conviction than experience/knowledge would be capable of doing a lot of damage to inexperinced exhibitors ;)

Our judge withheld the whole class last year at crufts, cant remember if it was limit or p grad, his wife got threatened and everything, if he didnt think anything worthy of a placing its his opinion, brave man.

I think it was P.grad. bitch... apparently according to my friend who is GSD breeder.

Yes it was,

I was just wondering what breed the judge withheld  from at a limit show perhaps they were not the preferred breed type for that certain judge.
I,m right peeved today should be at our local open show for my girls first veteran class but my mate can,t get his car out for the snow.
The veterans will be in the ring anytime now grrr.

> I,m right peeved today should be at our local open show for my girls first veteran class but my mate can,t get his car out for the snow.
> The veterans will be in the ring anytime now grrr

Ah thats a shame, grr! snow spoils everything.

Only worry is, though if they start doing itmore and more at this level it may stop people who are thinking of getting a show dog from showing their dogs that may be not quite the best and thus not giving the experience in the show world that they may need.

We have to look at the whole thing, not just, was it a breed specialist etc, etc...

I know we say to people, yes of course, just take your dog along to a little limit show, and have fun.. BUT, we do have to take note that breed standard is breed standard, whatever the show.. and someone who takes a 'possibly poorly bred' pet along to the show (Please note, no disrepect, but we all know there are dogs out there that fall way below any breed standard)  has to accept that they may not get placed if more that 5 in the class.. BUT... I have to agree with any judge who has 5 dogs in a class, and 2 fall far below the recognisable breed standard,

I would say it would be more disheartening for a much loved pet to get placed, albeit 5th out of 5, just because it was a Limit show, and never ever get a whiff of a place at Open level..

Ringcraft is the place to start, and get hands on experience, shows are a fantstic place to meet people in your breed, and get to know all about showing and the breed itself. ideally with a decent dog yes, but if that is not the case, then go visit shows without the dog, in preparation for the future...

The best experience is to have fun at any show, with or without a dog, not to be dishearted...

I have to add, through recent experience, this also applies to temperament, which is sadly being much overlooked when judging.. Its not just conformation that counts!

Sadly though these days many newbies seem to want to start at Championship level.  I'm actually all for not giving places if dogs do not represent their breed standard in any way.

Judge witheld from his own breed Bassetts.

Then possibly he felt they were too exagerated?  I know very little about Bassetts as I'm in gundogs and toys.  If so he should be congratulated to sticking to the new standards unaffraid of come back from those within his own breed.  The only witheld places I have personally seen have been the dogs did not allow the judge to examine them.

I have just heard about this. The judge has only owned 2 Basset Hounds, and think only one now - main breed poodles. The two Bassets he witheld on had no glaring faults and had won first prizes at champ shows in 2009! Don't think the judge has attended a breed seminar yet either.
Judges are not always right and we all know about 'political judging'!

Who are we considering here, owners, judges or dogs. Call me naive, I don't understand terms - P Grad, Limit show, inexperienced exhibitors, B.O.B. but surely the dogs comes first. All the best to judges who to quote Kaya 'have the courage of their convictions' lets hope it continues, so some breeds can revert to a healthier for purpose and not looks.