If so, what do you think of them?

They're not a recognised breed.

seen many bc types that look similar to them, so wouldn;t know if i had or not.

Yes,I saw one at an agility show and thought it was really nice,very attractive,I like the black and tan colouring.I haven't seen one competing though yet.

My sister has one.  Bonnie is black and white and Sis is tired of explaining the difference between ES and BC.  She is a very smart little dog, just turned 10 months.  Actually, she's not that little, standing at least as high as my Lab at 23.5 inches but much more slightly built.  Sis took her to one measley obedience class and that was it.  I'm sure the dog is capable of much more than is being asked of her.

We first learned of ES about 15 or 20 years ago when someone told us they had one.  They are becoming more popular this side of the pond, where I think the "breed" name came from.  They seem to be the old reliable farm dog we used to see everywhere that looked like mostly collie x spaniels with bits of other breeds thrown in.  The dog that brought the cows in for milking, escorted the kids to wait for the bus, brought the mail back on the way back to the house, picked up the eggs in the hen house, moved the sheep from field to field, alerted the household to the approach of a stranger and kept the boss's feet warm by the fire at night.  :)  Versatile.

Because Sis was looking for a puppy she and I both looked at the websites of a lot of "breeders" here and in the U.S.  Some were really emphazising the work ethic of these dogs and would not let them go to non-working homes.  Many were competing in agility and herding trials.  They all claim to do cerfs and elbows and hips etc, and Sis's breeder did too but bred an OFA displastic bitch anyway, which was Bonnie's dam.  I couldn't talk her out of getting the pup.

They're not a recognised breed.

Whats that got to do with the question???

seen many bc types that look similar to them, so wouldn;t know if i had or not.

The ones in UK at the minute don't look like BC's - the ones here are all black and tan (except my tri bitch)

Yes,I saw one at an agility show and thought it was really nice,very attractive,I like the black and tan colouring.I haven't seen one competing though yet.

That is one of my pups :)

>>They're not a recognised breed.
>Whats that got to do with the question???

It means that the average Joe would think it's a collie cross of some sort; the name on its own suggests an 'Alsatian' (an English version of the German Shepherd).

Jetstone Jewel, it took me 15 years to get my first ES. Many breeders want the dogs to remain working dogs only. But they are also fantastic pets and are all the things you mentioned :)

It means that the average Joe would think it's a collie cross of some sort; the name on its own suggests an 'Alsatian' (an English version of the German Shepherd).

LOL but the question is: Ever met an English Shepherd? If so, what do you think of them?

> They're not a recognised breed.

Neither are other working breeds such as kelpies-and look at how successful those are as working and agility dogs,including Agility Champions.

> Ever met an English Shepherd? If so, what do you think of them?

I wouldn't know - there are plenty of collie-types around.

i didn't say bc . i said bc types,    

> The dog that brought the cows in for milking, escorted the kids to wait for the bus, brought the mail back on the way back to the house, picked up the eggs in the hen house, moved the sheep from field to field, alerted the household to the approach of a stranger and kept the boss's feet warm by the fire at night.  :-)  Versatile.
>

Sounds like perfection to me!  :-)

Have to admit that the pastoral breeds are my biggest weakness.

Are they recognised anywhere -with any reputable organisation? I only checked AKC and FCI and they're not there. As for kelpies -never even realised they're not recognised here, but they are of course in the FCI so in many countries.

Sounds like perfection to me! Me too! :D
Are they recognised anywhere -with any reputable organisation? I only checked AKC and FCI and they're not there. As for kelpies -never even realised they're not recognised here, but they are of course in the FCI so in many countries. They are only registerable with the UKC and the English Shepherd Club in the US. The breeders there do not want AKC status because the breed would be likely to change.

"Do not want AKC status" sounds to me like "Cannot get."

"Do not want AKC status" sounds to me like "Cannot get."

LOL very cynical ;)
They have been asked many times to join the stock register (or something similar - can't exactly remember) which is a way of getting rare breeds recognised, and later down the line they are registerable to the main body.
They have refused, and are adamant that the ES won't be tampered with by people wanting dogs just for looks. Thats why many breeders will only sell to people who have farms and will work their dogs.

I believe it is called the Foundation Stock Service. FSS.
TMs were on it for many years.

Foundation Stock Service details. It sounds like a very sensible programme, and it's hard to imagine why any developing breed wouldn't want to take advantage of it.

> Thats why many breeders will only sell to people who have farms and will work their dogs.

Well in that case, there certainly should not be an explosion of puppies in this breed then - the number of farms and working dogs is decreasing faster than the dog population is increasing.   I certainly would not expect to see litters being advertised as "available".

Having owned Australian shepherds for over 10 years - and bearing in mind that the English Shepherd evolved from the same strains as the Aussies, albeit on the eastern seaboard whereas the Aussie evolved on the western seaboard of the USA - we know only too well that this is not a breed for the faint-hearted - and neither would be the English Shepherd.

Strange that this thread evolves just as a litter is on the ground......... - or am I being a tad too cynical????

Why is it called English Shepherd if it was developed in the US?

Edited to add: they look like any collie/bc x you get in the pounds here *runs for da hills*

You could ask the same question about the Australian Shepherd, that was also developed in the US.

Didn't know that either, Jeangenie, so why?

The Aussie evolved from the dogs brought by the sheep drovers that came to the West Coast of the USA from Australia when they brought sheep into California in the late 1890s/early 1900s.   These dogs were an American original developed in the West by eastern and Midwestern sheepmen drawn to western adventure and the Gold Rush and by Spanish settlers in the Southwest. Details are lost, but it is likely that the breed came from mixing and matching good stockdogs of a number of other breeds: the various Collies from the British Isles, herding and driving dogs from the European continent, those Spanish dogs from the American southwest, and a striking merle-pattern shepherd dog that came from Australia with immigrants and their sheep.

Basque shepherds from the Pyrenees figure prominently in the breed's evolution and came to the US from Spain, from Spanish colonies south of the US border, and from Australia. These sheepmen needed robust dogs that could help guard the flocks and spend months on the range with only sheep and human shepherds for company; tough, smart, and able, the Aussie fit the bill.

> Strange that this thread evolves just as a litter is on the ground......... - or am I being a tad too cynical????

No, it occurred to me too - so perhaps we're both cynics :) 

...particularly as the same question has been posted on another pet forum also

lol.  me too..................

Lokis mum wrote "Strange that this thread evolves just as a litter is on the ground......... - or am I being a tad too cynical???? "

Maybe , Maybe not, but a lot more people are aware of the litter now than would have been if you hadn't mentioned it!!

OK - the English Shepherd originated in England - it is not a developing breed, it is a very old breed and the breeders don't want it changed. I have a litter and I posted this question on another forum in which I've talked about English Shepherds and all sorts of stuff for quite a while. Is it wrong to ask people what they think of my breed just cos I have a litter? I have to say that on the other forum I have much less cynical and interested replies.

You're not allowed to say you have a litter if you mention the breed as that is classed as advertising here.

A not very subtle advertising ploy :-(

>Is it wrong to ask people what they think of my breed just cos I have a litter?

Yes; it's against the Terms of Service you agreed to when you joined this Forum.

But I didn't mention the litter and wouldn't have if people hadn't brought it up!

Well as everybody, except the OP, seems to be keen to mention the litter I best lock this thread.