saw ceaser milan at the o2 shake hands with him,he was great will up date later only just got in .

if anyone elis is going to his show there was sad bit, funny bit and making sence bits.
well worth the vip tickets.

now you can see where the mistakes are been made bye pet owner ?
as he states he not a dog trainer,

dont not want to write any more incase some of you guys have not seen the show yet .

but if you do go enjoy it.

I am dead jealous, I really wanted to go to one of these shows as I love Cesar. I think he is great and would have love to have met him.

Wouldn't go if u paid me!

Nor me.

You'd have to pay me an awful lot of money to go.

Sorry but i can't understand why anyone would choose to go.  His 'training' practices are mostly cruel & mainly based on dominance!

I'd have loved to go but couldn't get tickets. :)

The sad fact is this man actively strings dogs up and chokes them making them unable to breath, pins them onto their side until they mentally give up and feels its fine to give them a swift kick in the flank- belly or  leg when not behaving the way he feels is submissive enough! Lovely man to copy in the training of a family pet! Not....

I like to have a far more loving environment for training my dogs rather then being a bully and aggressive. Thankfully my dogs trust me and when called come gladly because they want to.... not because I am going to be dominant to them. !!

This guy seriously was a dog groomer that found a way of dominating any dog that didn't want to be groomed.. seems to of paid off very well for him.

ah totally jealous! :) would have loved to have gone, i they going to put the event on tv?

different horse for different courses

Maybe but there are videos on the internet showing cruel measures used and would never support anyone who resorts to such methods.

And the BVA, among many other veterinary and animal welfare organisations worldwide, also oppose his cruel methods.

And I will never understand how anyone can chose punishment/force based methods when there are reward based ones that works just as well or often much better. Even for aggressive dogs. I just don't get it.

Another one here that wouldn't be interested.  I love it that mine do as I ask because they love to please me.

It's great when they get all excited because they've been praised.  Wouldn't have it any other way.

he didnt in any way show cruel methods of training on the dogs or the owner that were on stage.

i am not going in to detail on what you all think of him .and what the show was about,

i went becuse it an insterested to me.
i got 7 dogs here that are happy as a pack.as well.

but it was a nice christmas persent from my lovley boys and enjoy the day in london went on the london eye a boat down the thames to the o2 then a nice meal, vip louge,

and a great show.

>he didnt in any way show cruel methods of training on the dogs or the owner that were on stage.

If he did on stage in this country what he does on his US TV shows he'd be arrested.

CM is like Marmite, you either love him or hate him, and being able to beg to differ is good. However if you watch his own pack, they do not cower down in fear, quite the opposite they absolutely adore him. Also most of the dogs he deals with are not normal family pets but are dogs with major problems. Many of the owners have already tried the gentle treats way and failed and without his intervention the dogs would probably be PTS or sent back to the rescue centre, where quite likely they would still end up PTS. His methods although unacceptable to many, may actually save the dogs life. He claims that most problems occur when a dog has not had any house rules and has been allowed the freedom to become a spoilt child/hooligan, and also many owners do not exercise their dogs enough according to breeds needs.
I know I will probably have howls of protest, but I think he is quite amazing

has he stated
rule
bounds
impatations

> CM is like Marmite, you either love him or hate him

The big difference being that Marmite does no harm!

>Also most of the dogs he deals with are not normal family pets but are dogs with major problems.

Then there's no need to show them on TV, because most people have 'normal family pets'.

>His methods although unacceptable to many, may actually save the dogs life.

That's still no excuse for abuse, which people copy from his shows and end up making their dogs worse and having them put to sleep. If a professional with a regulatory body did what he does when they're not actually being attacked they'd face disciplinary action and possibly be struck off.

As I said, being able to beg to differ is good and I have no intention of entering into discussions over the pros and cons, but feel that we are all entitled to our own opinions and views as this forum shows.

I watch his tv show often and tbh am often amazed at how much he can help nervous dogs adjust.
I have never seen him being cruel or kick a dog merely tap it's side to refocus attention. I guess we see different things.
I trained obedience from the age of 12 and have tried many strategies along the way- Been training my paps to retreive a dumbell this week with clicker and this has been fun however I also make Cesar's poo choo noise if they run barking at the door and they know that means give it a rest.
I guess we do what we can and as said some love him and others hate him. I was being bought a ticket for Christmas but didn't dare let Dave buy it as my mum was so ill I was scared to book anything. After she died last week I am tempted to go just as night out and something to look forward to that involces dogs. I wouldn't feel cruel and may hope to pick up a few tips

I wouldn't go either - but I'm glad you had a good day Briedog :-)

I agree with you Roxy lady, his dogs really do adore him.

And i'm really pleased you had a lovely day Briedog...i for one would love to know what went on in the show. :)

Many of the owners have already tried the gentle treats way and failed and without his intervention the dogs would probably be PTS or sent back to the rescue centre, where quite likely they would still end up PTS. His methods although unacceptable to many, may actually save the dogs life.

That's simply untrue. None of the dogs have been treated by proper trainers. It has been proved that kind and gentle reward based methods are MORE effective than methods like his even for really aggressive dogs. (Self explanatory really: treat aggression with aggression and you get more aggression, or the dog shuts down in despair. That's not solving a problem at all.)

I say it again: why chose harsh methods when there are kind alternatives? If people have such a need to dominate, why not just take up boxing instead?

I watch his tv show often and tbh am often amazed at how much he can help nervous dogs adjust.
I have never seen him being cruel or kick a dog merely tap it's side to refocus attention. I guess we see different things.

I'll give you some examples then:
http://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1160909300600&oid=20444826822 This one you need a Facebook account to view, but it is worth it. Most other places have been forced to remove the worst videos. It's 14 minutes long and includes a mixture of "cases" but includes the infamous one where he uses an electric shock collar on a dog that then in response bites its owner.

http://www.stevedalepetworld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=203&Itemid=71

Here's another electric shock collar one, does not need Facebook account, give it a while to load:
http://c2.libsyn.com/media/729/06572_00_Cesars-eCollar_006.m4v?nvb=20100305100358&nva=20100306101358&t=076c571a5922db8e7cd48
Does that look like a happy dog, getting electric shocks when trying to eat the food it has just been given in a bowl? Is that a better way to treat resource guarding than with kindness?

Finally, he has not helped ANY nervous dog adjust at all. He pushes them so far (floods them) that they shut down, retreat inside themselves, and just give up. This means they will no longer try to run away, or defend themselves, it just means they are so deeply scared and depressed they have given up. Like a human in deep depression that will not get out of bed. It's very, very scary indeed that somebody that works with dogs can not recognise this behaviour in a dog. I personally have a dog that was like this when I got her, she shut down completely. The vet thought she was brain damaged as she didn't respond to anything. Today she's a normal dog, because she ha been treated with kindness and never again been punished for anything.

This is always such an emotive topic...

I agree with a lot of the things that Caesar says about exercising dogs before training, no touching or eye contact when a dog is over excited, and his use of calming signals is very good. When I'm out walking Digs if he is totally focused on another dog i will either tap him with my foot (CM stylee...and no i'm not kicking him, it's the lightest of nudges) or I use the Aa-aa (Victoria Stillwell stylee) which really snaps him out of it.

I wouldn't blindly follow eveything that CM does, just as I wouldn't blindly follow anyone when it comes to my dog...his care and training is my responsibility. CM has a msg on at the beginning of his programme to say that these methods shouldn't be attempted without a dog trainer...as does Victoria Stillwell...as does Dog Borstal...as does every other dog training show going!

Anyway...glad you had a great time, I think I'd pop along if someone gave me a ticket simply because I love to learn and be educated on anybody's process...it's my responsibility to decide if it's appropriate for my dog.

Helena

Someone Pmed me a clip of a show I actually watched and it was intersting just viewing one section where he appeared to set the dog up to react - I missed that in the show because you are involved in the whole story and not focussing in small details.
I can't get the non facebook clip to load - laptop slow- and am not a facebook member- I do however disagree with prong collars, shock collars, electric fences etc so can imagine they are not nice clips.

Obviously we see the parts of the shows the production company choose to air and many of the shows I have not seen so can't comment extensively.

To those going to see- enjoy. To those who choose not to that is your choice too.
Most of us here want what's best for our dogs and will often have different or even no viewpoints at times.

or I use the Aa-aa (Victoria Stillwell stylee)

Pleased to say Victoria Stillwell has made a complete about turn and now clicker trains. (Watch the US version of the series, it is really excellent!) No more aa aas, no more hooters, no more air sprays or anything similar. :)

I love Victoria Stillwell's technique for training, however her voice is soooo irritating, I don't think I could listen to a whole programme ;-)

Thanks - I'll watch out for the US version of the show Marianne - Digs loves the clicker! 

I use the aa-aa's as it cuts through Diggers excitement and says focus on me please...I do it at normal voice level...don't shout it or anything. I find it effective as it punctuates quite well and isn't like any other commands.

Have never used an airhorn...;) think this might exacerbate the problem!

Fortunately, in some ways Digger, is the most bomb proof dog ever. Since we wanted to work him he's been around loud noises etc from when he was young to stop him being nervous. I wouldn't use the methods I use with Digger on a more timid dog or a rescue I was unsure of say.

As we all know and agree dogs come in all shapes, sizes and characters and I would only ever offer my own experience and what works for Digger and I.

cesar milan collar and lead are great.

Is that the "Illusion collar" you are referring too?

I wanted to go! But with tickets travel and B&B would of costed us such a lot :-(

Are there any clips online to watch?

Was there any requests for problems dogs to go to his shows?  Are there dogs there, or is it dogs that his company set up to go?  Just interested in the set up that's all.

Glad you enjoyed Terri and not getting at you in any way.

One of my behaviourist friends(who uses only positive methods) says that at least 50% of her work comes from owners who have seen the show,copied CM's techniques and ended up with aggression and fear problems,occasionally so severe the dogs have to be PTS but thankfully she often manages to explain to the owners why these methods are so bad and turn the dogs around.As she sees first hand the awful fallout from his methods she campaigns against him.
Perrodeaga,there were requests on his facebook group for dogs for his show,I think he had problems getting enough.

yes the illusion collar

Collars that are worn high up the neck just under the ears cause pain when the slightest pressure is applied. :-(

dont think so,
no different to a slip or rope lead ,
it has two collar that you a just comfortable around the dogs neck, which keep in place the rope or slip bit roll down the the shoulders, where the dog has more power from the shoulders,

better than a halti where you can dislodge the dogs neck,and half the dogs i know are great excape artist by hooking they paws up and down collar out they wiggle or pulling down the eye lids,rub on the skin to,

> dont think so,
> no different to a slip or rope lead ,

Have you seen the actual cord that's used in the Ilusion collars? A slip or rope lead looks the height of comfort in comparison. The cord in the Ilusion is just that - a narrow cord like a garotte. Which would you prefer aroud your neck?

it the same width as my rope or slip lead i buy

plus it thicker than my show leads which i use.

>no different to a slip or rope lead

It's very different to an ordinary slip or rope lead which are broad and worn on the part of the dog's neck that's more protected from damage. The illusion collar's 'working piece' is extremely thin, like having a piece of string or the sort of thin choke chain that certain showdogs wear, strung up under their ears, where the nerves, blood vessels and windpipe are nearer the surface and more fragile. It also sits on two acupressure points which are extremely sensitive.

I've just had a look at the collar, and a photo of a dog wearing it, your correct that is exactly what it is doing.

http://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Collar-Leash-Cesar-Millan/dp/B0013UZV2I

IMO it is a very cruel collar, it reminds me of a neck brace uncomforable to start with, then with a thin lead (we know how they dig in) attached above that.

I would never use anything like that to train a dog to walk nicely. It is just pure laziness to train a dog using pain or fear, praise and reward gives you better results all round. Why would anyone wish their dog to feel uncomfortable, it all comes down to some people just can't be bothered to take the time to train a dog properly.

Not getting at you briedog, I'm actually shocked that you like the man you don't agree with pain and fear training  you've always supported praise and reward methods, I don't understand how you can go anywhere near the man.

The "cord" is very like the 50¢ slip leads he uses on his show a lot of the time, which look like a bit of washing line with a ring attached, to me.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0013UZV2I/ref=dp_otherviews_3?ie=UTF8&s=kitchen&img=3

There was an article in the Swedish KC magazine a while ago abut this collar, saying how it ought to be banned along many other types. In Sweden electric collars and porng collars are already banned. This is far worse than a choke chain.

Basically the collar is designed to cause maximum discomfort with minimum effort.

> This is far worse than a choke chain.

Agreed. Perhaps we should be grateful that in the UK we can't walk into a 'dollar store' and buy a 50¢ garotte.

>One of my behaviourist friends(who uses only positive methods) says that at least 50% of her work comes from owners who have seen the show,copied CM's techniques and ended up with aggression and fear problems,occasionally so severe the dogs have to be PTS...<

At the beginning of each show it says that people should not attempt any of the exercises shown without prior consultation of a professional... It is even written on there. If people still try it then it's their own problem. I do see why people try to copy this as it only shows successful treatments and not how many unsuccessful attempts there were prior the successful one. Many people do want a quick fix with their dogs' problems which unfortunately is not always possible. It takes time, patience and a lot of effort from the owner depending on the severity of the problem.

I do watch his program and find it interesting. I don't agree with the electric collar and some of the equipment. I work with positive reinforcement with my dogs, but I do "growl" or as well use the "a-a" noise at them if I disapprove of their behaviour which works fine.