i want to get into showing,but a man over the park said to me (and i know i shouldnt listen to everyone) cor you'll be lucky to get anywhere with that one,move it along and bring in another one you CAN sow.
well i was offended by this ok so lola might not be showable but why would i want to move her along......i dont and wont!

so anyway can i go to ringcraft and just ave fun (im sorry my H button isnt working very well im aving to tap it hard to get it to work)
and if she placed great if not do i have to stop?

i am at the mo looking out for an apricot pup to show but havent been lucky enoug  yet.can i just go and practise with lola im so affraid ill be laughed at,im really bad at meeting new people and talking on the phone to ask to join their ringcraft class.
can someone tell me what sort of thing i sould be asking or doing or saying.i reeeeaally want to meet new doggie people and learn more but i cant do it alone im scared :-(

First of all, EVERYONE will have an opinion of your dog if you start showing. The best thing to do is to go along to a ringcraft club (we have people who come just for socialising their dogs) and try it, see what you think, it's a great way of getting to know people and their dogs, and if you have open/limit shows held locally, then you're bound to see the same people at those shows.

The other thing is, even if you don't show Lola, it will be excellent practise for you, and when you bring in a new puppy then you will at least have some basic idea of what goes on, how to handle, etc, etc

I can assure you that no one will laugh at you at ringcraft, IMO you generally get two types of people who go, newbies and seasoned exhibitors who have young puppies and want to continually socialise their other dogs. Generally everyone is anxious at ringcraft to talk about their dogs, well they are at mine anyway! LOL, and once you've been a couple of times, you will feel alot more comfortable. If you want a bit of moral support, is there a friend/relative you can take with you?

All I would say, is don't be afraid to ask ANY question, it's how you will learn and understand what happens in a show environment

Above all, it is an incredibly addictive and social hobby, and I'm sure once you start showing and having fun, you won't be able to weait for your next show!! & (most importantly) you ALWAYS take the best dog home

thanks for all that.im happy for people going over my dogs and finding fault but i think it was a bit naughty of a guy who knows nothing about dogs what so ever to say things like that...you know.
i found one half hours drive from me which im happy to do i think its close compared to some peoples travels.love to have shown my rotts,shame i had a youngen at the time.

I came away from a show last week absolutely deflated because some were telling me to move on my puppy because he isn't good enough, he was 4th out of 4 in his breed class but then won three out of three AV classes (one of them with 15 or so present in the class) after I'd been told he was no good!

Depends what you want I guess, I now have 4 dogs (our limit) and only 1 might be OK at the shows, but then they were bought as pets first, show dogs second!  Give your dog a chance, have fun and if it does OK then it's a bonus...  We usually travel a max of 1.5 hours to a show (unless special reason) but in the Midlands we're lucky to have a reasonable choice of places to go.

I have to say that sometimes I'm not sure it matters how good the dog is as I'm new to showing and that is a barrier in itself, and sometimes due to our handling abilities, made worse by the fact that my daughter is the handler and she's a junior....

> i want to get into showing,but a man over the park said to me

A man over the park said to me " them dogs 'ave all got bad hearts you know"..... and the ink wasn't even dry on their clear (cardiologist issued) certificates. Everyone's an expert these days!!

Get a knowledgeable opinion from 2 or 3 people who know about your breed.

As for ringcraft...it's as much to train handlers as it is to train dogs - go and learn.

There's always people that will tell you your dog won't get you anywhere . Nine times out of ten these people know sweet FA about dogs or showing. Just do what I do and take it with a pinch of salt.

You will meet some great people at ringcraft, and if we are all honest there will be a couple you won't like, but that's the same everywhere. I'm sure there are a couple of people where you work or where you live that you dont't really like. But with that said, I go to ringcraft for the social life as well as for the dog. I also am a trainer there now, and unless one of us is ill, we go every week sometimes twice or 3 times a week. I love it. It's a great way to learn and gain confidence. It also does the dogs good as they have a new set of hands going over them on a regular basis. You can pick up grooming techniques, feeding tips etc

People won't discuss a fault with you unless you ask them, then in most cases, they can teach you how to hide that fault, by grooming or stacking your dog.

Like someone said above (sorry can't see who you are when typing) people that go tend to be complete newbies or extremely experienced exhibitors with new puppies that will be willing to help. So, virtually everyone is in the same boat. Hardly anyone will know what their doing.

I hope you go and have a really good time. After the initial nerves have gone I'm sure you'll be great x

To be perfectly honest Tamara, a novice can be given a top class dog but because there is so much to learn about showing, they'll not make the best of the dog and so won't do well anyway.

Use the dog that you have to serve your apprenticeship.  Watch, listen and learn at every show you go to.  You'll learn more at Champ shows but start at the Open shows.  And the contacts that you make around the ring over the next couple of years will improve your chances of being about to buy a top quality puppy in a couple of years time.  No breeder is going to let their best puppy go to a novice who won't show it to it's best.  In a couple of years you'll know how to make the best of your dog and you'll stand as good a chance of the rest...... :)

I feel a bit upset that Ringcraft is only open to KC reg dogs (it is where I live).
My own dog would have greatly benefitted from that kind of socialisation and I would have gone along to learn (as others have said, it is more training of the owner) and got experience and learned and enjoyed. Maybe even have been encouraged to get into handling... I could have handled other peoples' dogs, without owning a show dog. But it was closed to me/him/us. If I did get a show dog now, then 4 years of exclusion from local ringcraft means I am back to square one; if he'd been allowed in as non KC reg 4 years ago I could have learned so much. I kind of resent that, in a way.

That's awful. Our society isn't KC reg so I don't know the KC rules regarding crossbreeds attending a KC reg society. We have a couple of crossbreeds at ours, not many granted, but thats not because we don't allow them to attend. And if I'm honest, one of the best junior handlers at our ringcraft is the owner of a crossbreed. She'll be able to apply all she has learnt to a pedigree pup.

> Our society isn't KC reg so I don't know the KC rules regarding crossbreeds attending a KC reg society. We have a couple of crossbreeds at ours, not many granted, but thats not because we don't allow them to attend. And if I'm honest, one of the best junior handlers at our ringcraft is the owner of a crossbreed. She'll be able to apply all she has learnt to a pedigree pup.

It says this on the website of our only local ringcraft class: "We would love to see you at our next ringcraft class these are very informal, open to all Kennel Club Registered dogs, you will be sure to meet lot's of other newcomers and regular members who will be more than willing to offer you help and advice."

Says it all.... as the owner of a cross-breed, and a novice to showing (but not to dogs or training in general), it didn't encourage me in any way shape or form.

> I feel a bit upset that Ringcraft is only open to KC reg dogs (it is where I live).
>

Well that isn't the case with my local KC reg ringcraft.  One lady regularly has her non standard GSD's to train, never been asked for KC papers, and some people are happy to just show at Companion level where the dogs don't have to be registered at all.

As you say you can learn how to handle etc with an unregistered dog and enjoy the entry level companion/fun shows, before getting a dog that can be shown at higher levels.

Also ringcraft is great for pure socialisation, and there are people that come for that reason alone.

> open to all Kennel Club Registered dogs,

This could of course include dogs registered with the KC companion dog register and those on the working register.

>> Well that isn't the case with my local KC reg ringcraft.  One lady regularly has her non standard GSD's to train, never been asked for KC papers, and some people are happy to just show at Companion level where the dogs don't have to be registered at all.

I think that's fab.... but as the owner of a cross-breed, reading the statement I posted above which is on the website of my only local ringcraft class, who can blame me for not bothering?? I didn't even feel it was worth going along to look, TBH.
Exclusive? Yes. Encouraging? No.

This could of course include dogs registered with the KC companion dog register and those on the working register.
Absolutely.  It just means that it's run under Kennel Club guidelines which some classes aren't and anything goes. :( 

Before I realised what this meant I went to a class that wasn't affilliated to the KC.  There was a GSD that had been rehomed to a young couple that worked all day and was completely wound up and full of energy.  It was never show quality but they thought that ringcraft training might help it - it was the only class on the night they had free!  The dog walked around the hall on its hind legs, baying for 2 hours while the owners held onto its collar.  The trainers weren't experienced enough to know how to help and a number of new puppies were completely traumatised by the performance over a few weeks.  I didn't go back and only went to KC classes after that and never experienced any problems again, although I'm not sure what guidelines they need.

It is more likely that whoever set up the website didn't envision anyone wanting to show unless they had a KC registered dog, and that it probably wasn't a rule, just a statement to clarify what the classes are for, as so many people turn up thinking they are coming for Obedience.

It's worth a phone call surely? :)

> This could of course include dogs registered with the KC companion dog register and those on the working register.

Ahhh that's true.... I did hope to register mine on Activity if he seemed likely to succeed in any Activities. But as a puppy cross-breed, starting out, and not being a purebred automatically KC reg... that was something for the future. Future didn't happen so he still isn't reg. Oh maybe if I known reg with Activity could have got him into ringcraft... well.... but I didn't know that, why would I have known as a complete newbie with a cross breed pup?

> It's worth a phone call surely? :-)

Not at the time, no... it seemed like an exclusion. It's only later that I've realised what I could have gained from it if I'd been allowed in.

Never come across that before. I took my working registered Beardie to ringcraft she loved it and I showed her at companion shows with some success and a LOT of fun lots of placings several firsts and a RBIS.

I agree with Westcoast - even if your dog isn't 'show quality' (and that bloke probably hasn't a clue), you can still have fun showing her, get to know people, find out how to show a dog, and then if you still aren't doing well with her and you want be competitive as well as just having fun, you can think about getting another. My first ever dog won a CC, but he would have been made a champion if I had had a clue what he was doing. I know for a fact of one champion show class he would have won if I hadn't been handling badly due to inexperience, because the judge turned out to know my boy's breeder and told her so many months later. It's better to have an average dog to learn on before you try to show an outstanding one. :-)

>I feel a bit upset that Ringcraft is only open to KC reg dogs (it is where I live).

The ringcraft club I last went to didn't care two hoots what was at the collar end of the lead. Pedigree, crossbreed or mongrel, it didn't matter. They were teaching you how to show your dog's good points off to their best advantage - and to teach the dog to be relaxed when a stranger examined them; if all dogs were taught this it would make a vet's life (and the patient's) a hell of a lot less stressful.

I guess it probably merits a thread of its own.... even online I found it very hard to find a good training class before I got my puppy when I was looking. Someone who has grown up with dogs, has done training before.... wants to do everything right, and still had trouble... Not to mention the dodgy club I mentioned in another post, which was a real rip-off and the club owner told me lots of porkies when I confronted him. I really didn't think it would be that hard... I knew what I wanted but it was by no means easy to find it, and I ended up being shafted anyway. 

Do you think it could be like that for other new dog owners?
How about the ones who are very new and have no expectations? For lots of dog owners, going to any kind of class is a thing on its own (I have met SO many who don't think it's necessary... say no more). Has anyone done a survey on what is available to those who do want to do classes, and what they get?

[I'll butt out now but it's worth thinking about - I guess you all recommend good classes for your new pup owners based on loads of experience, but believe me, it is truly hard even if you do know a bit about it, but are going into it cold, to find what you need.]

I wouldn't care one bit if the class I went to was KC registered or not, ALL that matters is whether the trainer/s is any good or not. The ringcraft I go to openly say crossbreeds are welcome for socialisation and indeed there is currently one attending.

> I wouldn't care one bit if the class I went to was KC registered or not, ALL that matters is whether the trainer/s is any good or not. The ringcraft I go to openly say crossbreeds are welcome for socialisation and indeed there is currently one attending.

That would have been lovely, but here the class specified KC Reg only.... so I didn't bother to go &  see what the trainer was like, I was automatically excluded.

>here the class specified KC Reg only

I've heard in the past of people getting confused between the fact that the club was KC approved and thinking it was the dogs that had to be; is it possible this was the case here?

Thanks all who posted info for me ...kinda more like encouragment and it helps.i know shes not the best dog in the world but we love her and shes a good girl,im gonna call the secatary today and hopefully ill be going to the class on thursday :-)

Have fun and let us know how it goes :-)

You'll be fine, go along and ENJOY

im scared lol,but i wanna do it so hey ho off i go.
still gotta call her yet lol.

> I've heard in the past of people getting confused between the fact that the club was KC approved and thinking it was the dogs that had to be; is it possible this was the case here?

I don't really want to hijack the OP's thread any further, but no - the quote above was taken directly from their website and it clearly says KC Reg dogs.

Most ringcraft clubs have match nights once a months, perhaps this is the reason why only KC reg dogs are being accepted by them.. It would be such a shame to be allowed to go every week with a non KC reg dog, only to be excluded everytime a match, or event was held.. these events are held under KC rules and regs, so its would not be possible to change them, and usually, as with our club, a trophy is up for grabs at the end of the year...

Just a thought, this is what I am doing at the moment... I have 4 pups, and unable to take all to ringcraft, so we have different training classes on 4 seperate nights, 2 of those are simply puppy classes, but the trainer knows that we are going to show, and has altered her class a little, to add in a 'stand' along with the sits, stays etc...

If you go along to your training class, and ask if it would be possible for a little 'show training' (many people at puppy training classes also show) you might find they are very encouraging :-)

Does anybody out there know of any ring craft classes in Rossendale or greater manchester? Thanks, any help would be great!

>these events are held under KC rules and regs

I suppose only if its a KC registered club, I know its slightly different but our agility club isnt KC reg and we still have our annual "fun" show.