Last October my 5½yr old toy breed had a dental; teeth cleaned and a few extractions. I don't remember noticing anything like this before, cos I remember when it first started I wondered if he was in pain from the dental (I first noticed it whilst he was eating, in the week or so after his dental). He'd start eating normally, then go down into a play bow and eat like that...often quite slowly and sometimes reluctantly.

Ever since then it's been reoccurring, but infrequently and never for that long. He's not stopped eating, no sickness or diarrhoea and he seems to be jumping about and on/off furniture as normal. Just every now and then he'll go down into a bow (now not necessarily related to a meal) and it seems something is bothering him. He's also often reluctant to eat his "bedtime biscuit" - which can be anything from a piece of dry dog food, gravy bone or something other kind of biscuit - which makes me think teeth, but then is sometimes reluctant to get out of bed which makes me think back (he has to jump a foot or 2 to come out, I was planning to move him to the bottom anyway & will be doing that before tonight)...

I can't put my finger on anything and I haven't even been able to work out where the problem is - neck, back, teeth, something else

This morning the dogs all had those little bone shape biscuits (not an everyday occurrence) and he took his but then lay and guarded it. Nothing else amiss at this point, but that made me think it wasn't going to be one of his better days! I got the dogs breakfast, wormed him (Drontal) because due to an oversight I think he is overdue and then fed them. He has Royal Canin Mini Adult with a small amount of Butchers Tripe on top. He took his tablet no problem (in some tripe), then proceeded to eat all the tripe and a small amount of biscuit before he decided to stop and start this bowing business again. I didn't actually give him chance to see if he would go back to it (he usually does), I picked the bowl up (so the others wouldn't get it) and then picked him up to see if I could pinpoint anything (I couldn't). He went over to the carpet and stayed there in a bow for a few minutes, then he appeared to recover and trotted outside perfectly normally...I went out of the room, and when I came back noticed there were tiny amounts of blood on the floor. Went outside and he'd done a poo, half normal and half bloody diarrhoea...this is the first time I'm aware of anything other than normal poos. The blood is fresh (bright red) but some of it is slightly...how can I put this, rubbery? Almost reminds me of blood a human would get with a period, if that makes sense. So now that makes me wonder if it's gastro related?

Not sure if it's relevant but the thought did just occur to me he covered a bitch in October, so that must have been very near to when it started as well. (Not his first - bitch, that is :-D)

I'm taking him to the vets again, but I just wondered if anyone else has come across anything like this? I don't really even know which area of him to start looking at...

Think that it is called the praying mantis position and is due to pain.  Sounds like that it is related to eating, you need to pop him into the vets .

As I say I am taking him to the vets. It wasn't my usual practice that did his dental, so if it was likely to be related to that I'd rather he went there! I just wasn't sure if the bowing was pain in general, or likely to point towards pain in a specific area!

I think I'm going to cancel with my regular vets and get him in with the vet that did his dental instead, because given the history I think it's quite possibly teeth and as it did start after his dental....

Dogs - they're such a worry!

Bowing and stretching usually indicates pain - very often a colicky pain in the gut.

My terrier will sometimes fall asleep in a bowing position - it just seems to be one those positions that he likes and adopts at random. He is very fit and does not have any health problems so it may just be something that he likes to do but then he is a very odd little dog all round :-)

One of my bitches had did this. She also had a temperature. I took her to the vet who gave her a thorough going over & prescribed Ranitidine. As this was the 2nd episode I realised that both times were linked to when she had been wormed with Drontal.

Ok, so vet couldn't find anything obvious. Gave him an anti-inflammatory and a few weeks worth of Zantac....and if the Zantac don't do anything I don't know where I go from here, really :-\

The only thing I'm wondering about is if the way he eats has changed since he lost those teeth, and he's giving himself indigestion?

There's been no more blood or diarrhoea since that episode yesterday, it appears to have been a one off.

Hope the Zantac reduces his colic.
Perhaps feeding another way ie switching to a flat plate to eat or gradual change to a different food type entirely...worth a go.

Is it because he has had some teeth removed and is unable to break his food into small enough pieces.   So that when he swallows he is swallowing a large lump of biscuit or food, which is painful and would then cause him to have oesophageal pain?

Hi there - sorry your baby is poorly, there is nothing scarier than seeing blood coming out of them when they go to the loo !!! have a look at my thread - Bedlington Terrier with Colitis.  Although yours does not seem so severe the symptoms you describe are almost identical.  Barney stretches and bows when he has belly ache.

Have a read - I think its a fairly recent thread and come back and pick my brain if you need to.

I would def take him to the vet though for piece of mind - but it does sound very similar to Barney's symptoms - if so dont worry its just a dog thing and if you read through our thread you will see how many dogs do it - doesnt make it any easier or less worrying to see tho !!!

Actually just reading back through the replies - I seem to think barneys bad times started after being wormed !!! we used ADVOCATE from the Vets - but we usually use tablets or Stronghold which is put on his neck - wonder if there is a link ?

Anna (and Barney the Bedlington who is currently asleep on the bed with his friend Jess the Cat !!!! )

> Is it because he has had some teeth removed and is unable to break his food into small enough pieces.   So that when he swallows he is swallowing a large lump of biscuit or food, which is painful and would then cause him to have oesophageal pain?

This is what I was wondering! I've started soaking his food right through to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks toolz :) I think I probably will switch his food, I've been thinking about it for a while (since they changed RC the last time!) but even a 2KG bag of RC lasts ages and although we don't win a lot we've won enough over the last year or two to give me a good stockpile(!) (all well in date, I swap it with friends if it hangs around too long) so I've kept on with it as I had no reason to switch - until now he seemed to be doing well on it. However, now something is obviously up somewhere so I want to try something else.

Thanks Anna :) I will sit down and have a read.

Hope that soaking his food sees an improvement.

Its a pleasure - Barney is doing really well on his new diet - but it does sound like your pooch and his sore teeth may have something to do with it.

Feel free to pick my brain if you need any more info

Anna

I don't know, I can't work him out!

He has good days and bad days and it doesn't seem to matter what I do. I soak his food and he's fine, next time I soak it and he's not...I give it to him dry and he's fine, give it to him dry and he's not! He can eat seemingly exactly the same on one occasion and it causes a reaction, the next time it doesn't - and vice versa. I feed twice a day, prefer two smaller meals than one large one.

We've been out of routine this weekend because I've had two days of shows, but Friday was a good day - no reactions at all. Saturday I fed him and he was obviously in pain afterwards and out of sorts for the rest of the evening. Sunday I think ok - woke up, left, got home and it was pretty much time for bed! - and today he seems fine again! Enthusiastic for his breakfast, ate it eagerly and since then has been fast asleep on the bed! Haven't seen him do anything out of the ordinary.

So now I don't know whether I'm better leaving well alone and seeing how he goes, or changing him over to another food slowly? If changing I was thinking of something like Wafcol Salmon & Potato as a starting point...

He's been on the tablets 4 days now and the vet gave me 30 days worth, so we have a while to go with those yet, too.

I do hate intermittent problems! Makes them so much more difficult to solve.

This is a complete shot in the dark, but as you are stumped to a possible answer, could it be that when you are paying extra attention to him (studying him to see if he is OK) that is the trigger? It's funny what dogs learn to do to manipulate us, - just a thought.

Also, keep a diary detailing things that could have possible imact - change in routine - different walk that day, different length of walk, visitors, visit from strangers, excited play, bit of dropped food eaten from floor when preparing dinner - any tiny little thing. You may find a pattern/trigger to the bowing.

I have no experience of having a dog 'bow' (other than a play-bow) and allthough it seems like a common indication of tummy pain, it's could be possible that is is linked to stress or excitemet or manipulation of you? A play-bow is also an apeasment/calming signal, so maybe something a dog will do when stressed or if it thinks YOU are stressed (ie, worried about him eating)?

Thats an interesting point about the dogs manipulating us - I think they play us all the time !!! I have got much more relaxed with BArney now - even if he is having a bad day and try to keep to a routine of morning and afternoon walk whatever the weather - which he is not always pleased about !!! I find if I dont walk him he gets a bit bunged up !!!

They are little monkeys aren't they !!! Barney sometimes turns his nose up at food but if I feed the cat at the same time and make it look likeI am putting some cat food in his bowl he eats it all !!!