We are quite new at this showing game and very rare for us to win a class, so why is it when we do win, that seems the batch of critiques that the paper never prints, and when a judge takes the time to keep the second back for a critique, only the first gets printed!?

Is it a space issue why the paper doesn't print the 2nd when you know the judge has written something?

and is there anywhere where all critiques are put that you can check them?

We found this, many of our critiques were not printed, I think you can only get critiques in the papers, sometimes you can get them in the breed handbook for a society that you are part of but that only has their shows in they normally have all the 1st to 3rd place critiques.

As a judge in the past I have written critiques for 1st & 2nd for a general open show & sent to both papers. On reading them once they are printed, they can be edited alot and don't read the same..sometimes reading the opposite to what has been written!!
Also if a citique has been written on 2nd place then 3rd place is not even mentioned, which in a big class is mean.
I now only critique 1st place unless a champ show, that way all 3 places are mentioned.

> As a judge in the past I have written critiques for 1st & 2nd for a general open show & sent to both papers. On reading them once they are printed, they can be edited alot and don't read the same..sometimes reading the opposite to what has been written!!
>

What a total waste of your time too, it must be really disheartening and I can understand why judges don't break their necks to send in the critiques too

this is one of the things i have grown to love now i live in Cyprus.............every placed dog gets a critique BEFORE they leave the ring!.....all done on computer with judge dictating to PC operator/translator on really nice watermarked paper so nice to keep...........that being said, our shows are about 3 times more expensive than the ch shows in the UK ................i'm ok with that now i have seen firsthand where the money goes! but it is great to get those critiques
Pauline

> every placed dog gets a critique BEFORE they leave the ring!

This is a discussion that is on another forum I belong to. With the breed I'm in this would just be such an impossibility here in the UK & I must admit I much prefer our system as an exhibitor & judge

I think if they charged 3 times more that most of usc wdnt show anymore.  Can't beleve that it wd cost over £60 an entry WOW!

with horses, last year i paid £45 per class. what i like with the dogs is, you pay a standard fee eg £22 then pay like £3 per class for same dog. when i competed both horses, you were looking at £180 in entry fees plus fuel for a 7.5ton lorry. everything for horses is so much more expensive than for dogs, although stud fee is generally cheaper :-S

as far as i was aware  only 1st at a general open show gets a critique.

> as far as i was aware  only 1st at a general open show gets a critique.

I think OD will print 2nd place aswell if sent in but omit 3rd placing, not sure as I don't get OD nor do I send 2nd place reports for open shows now

I think you should be made to do the write up for 1st and 2nd, hopefully then that will show why your dog lost out on first place.  It's not as though we write a lot.  THough saying that, no write ups have been in the paper for my dogs placings for a long time.

> I think you should be made to do the write up for 1st and 2nd, hopefully then that will show why your dog lost out on first place.  It's not as though we write a lot.  THough saying that, no write ups have been in the paper for my dogs placings for a long time.

The KC ruling is All Judges at Champ & open breed shows must produce a written crit for the first two placings in each class and submit to at least one of the weekly papers. There is nothing to say that a judge has to do a crit for a general open show or other type.

I'm starting to suspect we may not see one for Colchester from December .... I haven't seen anything in DW anyway. Anyone that has time to spare to double check Our Dogs for Cavaliers and AV Toy I'd be most grateful!

I agree it wouldn't be practical to critique all dogs in my breed either, not at champ shows certainly. But perhaps all placed dogs would be manageable?

> I'm starting to suspect we may not see one for Colchester from December .... I haven't seen anything in DW anyway. Anyone that has time to spare to double check Our Dogs for Cavaliers and AV Toy I'd be most grateful!
>

Our dogs seem to have most of the groups but no Toy results

We had a lovely write up this week in Our Dogs but I'd never of found it without the on-line search as it's written under a totally incorrect show!  Makes you wonder whether I've missed others in the same way.

Below is the link: 

Then click 'download' then scroll down to Annex B; B13 - Hope it helps

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/library.cgi?action=detail&id=488

"The KC ruling is All Judges at Champ & open breed shows must produce a written crit for the first two placings in each class and submit to at least one of the weekly papers. There is nothing to say that a judge has to do a crit for a general open show or other type"

Except perhaps good manners and respect for the exhibitors who paid to enter under them

Go to the link as above, Chapter 7, then no.7.3 and 7.4 - where it says the KC encourages judges at other shows.....................................................etc.

> "The KC ruling is All Judges at Champ & open breed shows must produce a written crit for the first two placings in each class and submit to at least one of the weekly papers. There is nothing to say that a judge has to do a crit for a general open show or other type"
>
> Except perhaps good manners and respect for the exhibitors who paid to enter under them

I don't disagree, I am just stating there is no KC ruling to say they must other than at champ & breed open shows

I did not say that you disagreed, just pointing out that the KC in their guide lines for judges encourages judges at other shows to write a critique.   Although if it is in the judges 'contract' that they are required to write a critique (any show) then failure to do so can be reported to the KC as not fulfilling said 'contract'.

One could possibly ask show secretaries if they would consider that as part of the 'contract'  when inviting judges to officiate at a show, however, it would be down to the secretary of the society/club to follow up and if no critique was forthcoming then to report the offending judge to the KC.

> I did not say that you disagreed

My previous quote was from Trimmer's post not yours.

Many clubs do include something in the contract but it is not a KC ruling & the Secretary would have to made aware, that a judge has not submitted a critique, in order to report them.