Hello all,

Relatively new to this champdogs malarky (although have been scanning other very useful posts for advice for sometime).

So my intact male labrador Digger is a bundle of fun, he's never aggressive with other dogs but he is all about "the play" and can be very boisterous.

As he's two at the end of April I'm putting this down to youthful exuberance but am just starting to worry - "MAYBE HE WON'T EVER CALM DOWN!"

So a bit about Digger, he's from proper show lab stock and (I think) he's a real beauty (OK maybe I'm biased). We keep him pretty trim (way under a show build) but he still weighs 40kg+ so when he's boisterous...you know about it!

When he was a puppy he was socialised as much as possible - though I don't know if we met the 100 dogs in 100 days target, and now I'm trying to get him around as many dogs as possble but not many owners like their poor dog squashed (and possibly play mounted...though rarely). Really I need some Rotties/Boxers/Mastiffs so he learns a bit about hierarchy as at the moment every working lab he comes across looks like a whippet and he can boss them around a bit too much I think...

And if it's a bitch vs a dog he doesn't listen to you at all...

I don't want to stop him playing with other dogs, would just like two things...

1) he looks at me to say mum can i go and play and if i say no then he follows me off for maybe a play with me instead
2) if i say OK he goes and has a nice calm sniff and doesn't barrel in like a 40kg train

He just needs to be a bit calmer...

Sorry I appreciate that I'm rambling, I actually find it quite upsetting as he's so good natured and smart and calm at home...but noone sees that as he's barreling around like a loon!

Any advice greatfully received...

Thanks all

Helena

He sounds like a typical lab to me, I'm afraid you have another year of Mr Boisterous yet. :-)

Labs are ultra friendly and bouncy and love to play, it's part of the breed trait and until he is fully mature approx 3 years, this is the way that he will interact. The good news is that most people know this is the way that labs are, the bad news, smaller dogs and often people get bounced on and over greeted, so you have to control that, at this age by vigilant recall, meaning you have to watch and spot people and dogs first and recall him before he starts towards them, it may well be worth you investing in a long line for the next few months whilst he is at the 'kevin' stage. No person or dog appreciates a lab coming at them full force.

The best way to keep him and everyone else around him happy whilst he matures is to split his life into 2 sessions, firstly you need to spend a lot of one to one time with him doing training, recall, retrieve games, teaching him basic sit, stay, down etc this will take up a lot of time and you make it fun for him with lots of praise and treats, if you get that really good bond with him then when you give a command he is more likely to listen to you. In other words you take the focus off anyone or anything but you. It is how you make a dog obediant and fully invested in their owner, it is also a usefull way to fill up those 3 years.

It is always more difficult when you have the one dog as breeds like this are so attracted to their own species and do not have other dogs to teach them manners aswell. I have always kept young labs on a long line when in places where there are a lot of dogs and allowed them to greet on my terms sniffing and body language but reigning back in if a dog shows signs of wishing to pounce all over the place, only when meeting a dog of similar size and with the owners permission has a dog been allowed to run and play freely.

Once they are over that 3 year hurdle it is amazing how they calm down. Just use this time to teach him manners and commands a whistle or clicker would work wonders too. And of course if you can find a regular dog walker or a group of others to make friends with it will do him the world of good too.;-)

Thanks for this Carrington - what great advice!

He has calmed down a lot over the last 6 months (believe it or not he used to be worse!) and when it's another in tact male dog he's now doing the calming signals and not looking them in the eye jumping all over them etc so I know that he's learnt some manners...and in these cases a "Digger, Come on!" works every time...

However with bitches or neutered males he's a bit more "BAM!".

I think I need to invest some time in taking him somewhere with loads of dogs on a long line and letting him meet lots of other dogs until he realises if he goes in all guns blazing the fun stops...this coupled with him maturing more over the next week should work.

I'm doing some work with a dog behaviourist based around if you see a dog, you then look at me, lots of praise and treats...it's just such an advanced training technique that it will take longer to learn than most other things.

That's one thing the dog behaviourist said...soooo many ppl have issues with recall around other animals and they get disheartened, but it's a very advanced training technique and it's the pinnacle of the bond with your dog. If any of the underlying foundations of this are inadequate then it will never happen.

Thanks again Carrginton...

Helena 

I use a long line for my girl when out walking.  It gives her freedom of feeling she can run free, but gives me control in different situations.  I let the line trail (can get muddy) so she feels she is free from a lead. If she looks like she is going to barge in, a quick foot on the line can stop her in her tracks lol.  While you have her on the long line is also a fantastic way to learn recall... My girl has excellent recall now and would not run off and barge her way in any situation without seeing if its ok by me first.  Good luck x

how long a line out of interesy? I could do with 400 metre one :)
Zo is just GONE and never comes back but when I show up panting heavily having come to apologise/retrieve her, she trots up and lays down acting yes I know but I had to do it...
I rarely let her off on all but the true farm field walks now, which is gutting as our 4 mth old trots along wonderfully and has superb recall.
Zo never had it not ever...
She ignores me totally grrr

Thanks Lindy - I am going out this weekend just to stand at a busy spot with long line and do some recall with some yummy treats! Only problem with standing on the line in digger's case is that doesn't often stop him, in fact you end up on your bum...he weighs 6.5 stone at the end of the day! But I'm starting to get the knack now so...

Jane I use a 20 foot line...i think...it's super long...

I love seeing Digger off of the lead but at the mo he just doesn't seem to think I'm as fun as other dogs...

It's such a difficult to teach...a solid recall = the holy grail!

i am not sure 20ft is long enough lol for Zo...
when we go on off lead walks with no other dogs, just her and our younger puppy, her recall is very good.
I am starting with when my hubby gets home, long line and getting her to come back to me when she is really hyper wanting to see him
it took 5 mins last night but we got there

Are you sure you're not setting her up to fail?

Was that to me?
If so I really want to try things that do not endanger people as she is 30kgs and runs like a train, she knocks people flying and jumps on dogs, so if I can gain control and get her eyes on me in low risk comfortable environment is that not a better way to start?
I appreciate all tips as I am quite desperate
TY

> I use a 20 foot line...i think...it's super long...
>

I use a 10 meter long line (it has a D-ring on the handle, so you can clip the handle to the fastenting clip, next to the collar/harness and use it at half length), that's just over 32 & half ft long :) Got it form Pets at home, it's great, I've never once worried about it not being strong enough - a worry I had with the first 'long' line (only 10 ft long).
The only problem I have with it is trees, LOL, if Buster is having a rare burst of running, you can guarantee he'll run the other side of a tree to me I end up being catapulted around it after him

>>Are you sure you're not setting her up to fail?
>Was that to me?

Yes; when you said "I am starting with when my hubby gets home, long line and getting her to come back to me when she is really hyper wanting to see him" it would seem she's not ready for that and that it would be more logical to work up to that situation - start by getting her behaviour more controlled at times of lower excitement and working up in stages.

Jane,

Sounds like Zo is a bit behind where Digs is... I'd recommend the following few steps (well this is what's worked with Digs so anybody feel free to correct)

1. firstly have a nice game of recall between you and hubby. Both sit on the floor at opposite ends of the hallway/room with some treats and one at a time do a recall each way e.g. you say "Zo come!" she comes to you, treat, you hold collar...hubby says "Zo come!" and treat etc etc

2. when this is relatively solid you can start with the getting her away from exciting things. Zo on long line with exciting thing e.g. hubby when he comes homes, lead is slack, she's allowed to go and greet. Take up the slack (but not so she's pulling against it - at point just before this) and then say "Zo Come!" (really high pitched exciting - have some yummy treats). Just say it once...if she doesn't listen then a quick flick with the lead, she should turn to say "what!!!" at which point kneel on the floor, arms out, "yeah, good girl", treat out, she should come, treat her.

If she doesn't come give her another quick flick...or however many she needs before she looks at you and starts to trot back towards you...under her own steam! this is the key thing - you're not realing her in under force, you're saying look at me and then she decides to come back.

Only say the command once (super important!!)...otherwise she's learning that she doesn't have to do this on the first call! Negates the point of the recall training...

It is amazing how quickly this works...(or it did with Digs anyway!)

Now...when I say a flick I don't mean yank her head of it's almost like a nudge in reverse...and it's quick, not to "violent" and it's a flick and release...

Hope that makes some sense...

Also it will be easier if hubby ignores her whilst this is going on...otherwise hubby is sort of going against you...

Zo is not a food orientated dog, which makes the training that much harder, it is hard to to know what grabs her as squeaky toys are only rarely fun, she is a complex character in that regard
She will work for liver sometimes, people have suggested short feeding her to keep ehr more keen and hungry but she is already a bloody fussy eater and can go 1-2 days without eating just because she is not hungry, she is on the lighter side of healthy and we have switched her food and given her more vigorous exercise to try and create an appetite but no real change as yet.
I do recall games with hubby and me and she is great, until another dog comes anywhere near. So we no longer let her off the long lead in that instance

Just thought I'd update
WE took Zo and our 5 mth old girl to a big nearly empty beach yesterday with a long line on Zo.
Did frequent recall with big arms out lots of yeehah whoopee type good girl calls, ---- >and every time she came back! There were a few groups of dog walkers on the distant horizon, as we approached them I saw her clock them and start walking, so I called her back and praised loudly then ran to the sea distracting her.
A bit closer and her recalls tarted wavering so I long lined her and ran up into the dunes to distract her,we played hide n seek and she never once looked at anyone else as they walked past!

Am filled with much more confidence and control now, she was 100X better than I had hoped or expected!

Had labs all of my life and they are babies for 3 years somtimes more,this is why so many end up in rescue they look so calm and innocent when puppies,but they are hard work when young,I have girls never had boys as they look to strong for me,you will find however one day soon your boy will be a gentleman.

Sheila.

I Got my first lab 8 years ago and he was my first dog really (i know, not a wise decision lol) and i know exactly how you feel.  I got an 8 week old male and i had to have him castrated at 17 months old as he was so boisterous and wanted to hump everything in sight, including my 10 year old cousin (whoops).  he would literally bowl him over and hump him and only brute force would get him off.  I lost count of the number of times i cried as i didnt feel like i could cope with him and thought it would be best for him if i rehomed him to someone with experience of labs. i ended up getting another dog (not a lab obv, thinking if he had some dog company he would be better behaved) him and the new dog get on like a house on fire but it didnt calm him down (looking back i dont know why i thought it would!).  Anyway i recall the milestone being about 3 years old aswell and he just seemed to change overnight for some reason and now at 8 years 3 months old, i could not possibly wish for a better dog.  He is loyal, loving and a true true gentleman.  Not saying it took the whole 8 years, but definately from 3 onwards he has just got better and better.  That said, im not sure i would ever have another puppy lab, but would certainly consider adopting a slightly older lab in the future x

This is to no-one in particular but have replied under Diggersmum (OP) post...

How many people think Labradors are the perfect pet to have?  I bet everyone bar those who live with them will stick their hands up enthusiastically... They are not, they are damned hard work, and to have a Lab as a pet, you do need to put in a heck of a lot of hours and sweat into training them... They are an intense breed, the have a brain, and if you don't utilise it, they will, and run rings around you...

A 40kg+ Labrador can and will end up a nightmare, if not trained. this has nothing to do with socialisation, it really is down to hard graft training... you need to get the commands down pat, and not allow any leaway, and certainly no playfighting if you cannot recall your dog.

Playing is allowed after the homework is done... but as soon as play becomes boistrous, he needs to be removed, and not allowed to continue...

>Sorry I appreciate that I'm rambling, I actually find it quite upsetting as he's so good natured and smart and calm at home...but noone sees that as he's barreling around like a >loon!

would it surprise you to find Labs are ALL like this...  all mine are the opposite, I allow them to barrel around at home, this is their place, but when we are out and about, no nonsense, they are all under complete control (Can I get away with fibbing here lol) I TRY to keep them under complete control.. and if they begin to go over the top, all play stops immediately

I know you love to see them play, but its not fun for you cringing and hoping that all will be well, and certainly not fun for other dog owners or people around him...

You need to go right back to scratch in training... begin with his sits, downs and stays, and recalls... use a long line for recall, making sure, to begin with, there are little or no distractions, you need to be the complete centre of his attention... Use a whistle, a babies rattle, anything that will get his attention, and as soon as you have it.. call his name and reel him in.. making sure you do not repeat the command.. he must learn that one call, means return...

And no.. he wont ever calm down, please do not hope he does :-)  just reign his exhuberance in, and enjoy him

I will always remember Johns words about one of his dear departed girls... I think it was Beth... He spent the 1st half of her life wishing she would grow up, and the 2nd half of her life wishing she didn't... his 2nd wish came true :-)

oops, that went on a bit (blush)

I meet my friends friends chocolate lab puppy today Morse...Oh my so cute! He is 6 months old and an utter nightmare! my friend had to keep him behind the baby gate from her lounge due to him keep picking up her 18 month old child's toys...I said oh let him in... I'll keep an eye on him... OMG!  I have never encountered anything so manic in my life! everything this pup picked up I said no...  I told him drop.... but he is a mad man possessed with getting something in his gob! He didn't know the word sit so gave up and put him back out into the hall...At least he had Rodney my friends boxer to play with they get on brilliant. The owner came to collect him and told us he'd had the op at the weekend because she would be doing the washing up at the sink and Morse would be continuously humping her leg! She's hoping it will stop now lol.

Personally bull terriers are an easier pup but maybe its because it was 11 years ago that my boy was a puppy, so I've had many years to of forgotten the manic puppy stage.

I have a friend who loves her 5year old Lab to bits, but has spoiled him rotten from a puppy... recently he pulled her over while on his lead/halti trying to get to a cat....resulted in a cracked  jaw and busted knee cap!!
  She is the only one i know who will actually sit on the floor if he is on the sofa!! though she has a heart of gold, just the wrong kind of love.

My two have been far from easy....though they are a little more sensible now at 6 and 7 :)

Thanks Kay - that's brilliant advice.

I think you're right with the fun stops when you get too boisterous.

I was planning on using a friends dog to do trian the following.

1. Start walking toward stooge dog, the moment he gets over excited and lunges...180 degrees turn around back to the start.
2. Repeat process 1 (hopefully) each time getting a bit closer.
3. Once close enough to greet the moment he gets over excited...walk back to the beginning and start again.

Hopefully he'll start picking up on what it is I'm expecting of him.

Thanks again...what great advice I've been getting from this forum!

Helena