Dont agree with the kid thing, sorry but mine are never foul mouthed when out as a family,  but then I agree with the family continental thing. 

Good news for the dogs at your pub though.

>I don't allow anyone under the age of 18 in my pub and I feel that regulations regarding children in places that serve food & alcohol need tightening.

Deed Not Breed! ;-)

No I don't agree with the kid thing!! Fair enough if pubs limit children to a dining room but we have always tried to take out daughter to a variety of places so that she knows how to behave in defferent places. She is never fould mouthed and sits at the table with lovely manners only standing up if she needs the toilet. She is 9 now and has been this way for as long as I can remember. Same as if we ever nip into a pub on a Sunday afternoon which doesn't happen often but she sits with her drink and behaves. I agree some children can't behave but I think that is more the adults fault and it is those families that should be asked to leave not them that ruin it for everybody else.

Most pubs round us allow dogs but again I prefer them to be kept in the bar area and not in the dining room as we don't have the dogs with us when we eat at home so I don't want to go out for a meal and have somebody elses dog drooling at me while I am eating!!!

ETA: Everything of course is dependant on the type of pub!!! I wouldn't take my daughter into a town centre drinking pub!! I was basing it on eating pubs!

> Most pubs round us allow dogs but again I prefer them to be kept in the bar area and not in the dining room as we don't have the dogs with us when we eat at home so I don't want to go out for a meal and have somebody elses dog drooling at me while I am eating!!!

I wasn't even referring to the pub itself but the garden.  quite agree that dogs should be only in the drinking are or garden.

I loved taking my children for a pub lunch on a Sunday, but as you say expected them to stay seated only getting up from table to go to the loo, and I expected to leave once the meal was over and children would get bored.

In fact Wetherspoons policy states children are welcome with parents coming for a meal, and should not have more than one or two drinks while with children, and they should stay in the family area, and not be in the pub after 9pm. 

Unfortunately parents are abusing the privileges and management seem afraid to take them to task, hence children running around past the bar, where in danger or tripping people up or getting trodden on, and disturbing those of us who do not want the sound of children's bickering and shouting whilst we have a chat.

My children have grown and I go to the pub for some adult time.

> Unfortunately parents are abusing the privileges and management seem afraid to take them to task, hence children running around past the bar, where in danger or tripping people up or getting trodden on, and disturbing those of us who do not want the sound of children's bickering and shouting whilst we have a chat.

This is exactly what I mean, being in the position to decide on allowing in under 18's, I don't think it would suit us one bit. Even the best parents of babys/toddlers sometimes cannot stop them from screaming full throttle :) But its the ones who really don't care/notice what their children are doing that annoy me!

Dogs are allowed in all areas of the pub for the simple reason food isnt our biggest source of income. and we don't have a garden :( Ohh I would kill for a vegetable patch!!

My children have grown and I go to the pub for some adult time.

I couldn't agree more and remember having this conversation with people in our local pub who thought it was fine to bring their kids to the pub all night long and get absolutely wasted. I told them I came to the pub on a night for some adult time while daughter was safely tucked up in bed with either grandparents or babysitter. To which she replied it was ok for people like us who could afford a babysitter. I told her in no uncertain terms that if they had 2 pints less each that then pays for a babysitter. I was gobsmacked!!!

4 TTs and 1 pom x Jrt with more TTs in the planning :D

only three,

25months
3 1/2 years old
and nearly 7.

all male and all live in the house with me, would love 4 but OH said no.( although i'm working on it ).

8.

6 pugs
1 'staffy' (probably has a splash of lab in there somewhere lol ;-) )
1 hotch-potch hairy terrier type

:-D

Oh how I love the british victorian attitude to kids!!!  Be seen not heard.  Anyway enough twittering on, have to make a new thread about cos I am drifting of the original subject to which have answered.

I don't think I have a Victorian attitude to kids and when we are in a suitable place I can run about and make just as much noise as her but to me sat at the table eating a meal is not a place to be running around or shouting at the top of her voice! We are out in public and should respect other people who are trying to have a quiet drink or meal!

>to me sat at the table eating a meal is not a place to be running around or shouting at the top of her voice! We are out in public and should respect other people who are trying to have a quiet drink or meal!

Quite right - and they can't learn how to behave in public if they're never taken out in public - very much likes dogs, really. Socialisation and training are essential!

Quite right - and they can't learn how to behave in public if they're never taken out in public - very much likes dogs, really. Socialisation and training are essential!

I have to admit I use lots of the same techniques!!!! Consistency and reward is the key to both!!!

> the british victorian attitude to kids!!!

It's not the kids that are issue. It is the ignorant parents. Very much the same with dogs, it is how you 'train' them. Until your dog is trained you wouldn't let it go terrorising others in the park :)

> Well most will have generations of dogs so most of the socialisation is needed when they are puppies, and usually one at a time.

For me, i find the 'one at a time' difficult - I hate leaving anyone out; kids dogs or whoever. [Too soft - if I had a penny for each time I've been told this....].plus, having come across travel SICKness, I don't feel able to 'sociallise' Heidi to different modes of transport and have been reluctant to take her out in the car.

>

> I would say that most pet dogs do not get anywhere near as varied social experiences as the average show or trials/obedience etc dog?  My very 1st dog many moons ago travelled/experienced so much with me.  I was only 15 and didn't think twice about where i took him and what I did with him -he was my companion/buddy - we just did stuff together.  We'd been to farms, beaches,moorland,towns,caravan sites, cities,cafes; travelled by trains, buses, cars, boats, cable cars - not by plane tho.  As I've got older and more informed  seem to do less/go to fewer places with my dogs - partly I don't do as much of anything [esp. as just going/gone thru teenage separation with sons] and also very wary of doing anything with my dogs that could upset anyone.  It seems these days that anyone will be upset by anything a person does with their dog/s - even just going for a walk.  Having a travel sick dog puts me off trying her out on public transport, having a barky dog puts me off ca mping/other holiday residences/activites.

> I would say that most pet dogs do not get anywhere near as varied social experiences as the average show or trials/obedience etc dog?I

'm sure you're right these days - it seems these are the only places [and that mnay be dwindling] a dog and owner can relax and not be condemned for minor mistakes.
WOW - Didn't realise I thought all that.I think I've got a lot of it off my chest LOL

until recently I had no transport so dogs came everywhere with me on errands etc.

As for travel sickness, the only way around it is to travel.  On buses I always took kitchen towel and bags,a and wet wipes.  Generally you get no more than froth if you don't feed before a journey.

As for a barky dog, if kept with you and taught quiet it works fine.

this year we camped with the dogs, us in caravan and them in a tent in their crates, they were very good, and that is all five.

Three travel in a crate and two on back seat attached to crate with foot-well filled with our gear, so they can't fall forward.

Landrovers are not the best for travel sick dogs,a nd our Inka still gets a bit queasy, but is better on back seat with the eldest than in the back.  they adore car travel, so much so that when going for walks Myka digs her feet in going past the Landy wanting a ride instead ;)

To be honest having cars has become the biggest reason dogs are not taken out and about to their walks, they get put in car and driven there.  This means that there are fewer well behaved/socialised to crowds etc dogs than in the past, certainly I was every dogs friend that lived near me as a child, as they all got walked everywhere.

What I meant by individual socialisation is that I only need concentrate on one at a time with the generations, I still take all of them out together mainly, except to shows, when it is whoever is being shown.

Mind you the most I have taken on the train in one go was three,a nd I once took four on the bus as I had picked up some heavy fruit and veg on offer when walking them, so decided to see if I could get on the bus as the bags were heavy.  Luckily bus half empty, managed to get 3 to go under the seat and fourth between my feet.

All young, whether animal or human need to be socialised to everything and learn how to behave.  and yes you are right it is some of the parents who can be a PAIN in the buttocks but it just shows how badly they were bought up!  As for me I was thrown into everything as a kid, and our dogs likewise.  My kids and dogs have the same treatment.  just wish people would understand that to education isnt just in school or at training classes.  I know some kids are annoying and parents alike but NOT everyone is the same and the minority always ruin it for the majority.  Dont we have enough predujice in the world without this too. 

As for barky dogs, I'll stick up for them too a bit, yes they are annoying, but when my mum's street got hit by a gang of burgulars they didnt touch her and her immediate neighbours.  Just 7 others in the street. Thanks Sam and RIP my barky boy.

> I know some kids are annoying and parents alike but NOT everyone is the same and the minority always ruin it for the majority.

I never suggested otherwise.  It isn't the presence of children that is the issue but that the parents are not following plain good manner,a nd that staff are unwilling to tackle the ones who are spoiling it for others.

I was most put out years ago in the same pub not to be allowed to take my kids in for a Sunday Lunch and having to walk 3 miles to one that allowed children.

It behoves the staff to tackle anyone who is breaking the rules, being antisocial.

In the same way I wish they did allow dogs, on the understanding they could be asked to leave if there was a problem.

> On buses I always took kitchen towel and bags,a and wet wipes

Great idea -  with the use of Stugeron tabs and not feeding I may pluck up the courage to take her on a bus

> this year we camped with the dogs, us in caravan and them in a tent in their crates, they were very good, and that is all five

Not done it with 5 but for many years camped with 2 dogs and 2 kids in a very small tent [only hol I could afford and loved it too]  not done it with Heidi tho kids too old now waiting til I go on my own with dogs now I think:)

> Mind you the most I have taken on the train in one go was three,a nd I once took four on the bus as I had picked up some heavy fruit and veg on offer when walking them, so decided to see if I could get on the bus as the bags were heavy.  Luckily bus half empty, managed to get 3 to go under the seat and fourth between my feet.

You're a brave woman!

> just wish people would understand that to education isnt just in school or at training classes. 

Can't agree enough Interestingly when I wanted to take my son at 5 yrs old out of school for a holiday his teacher said that he would learn more on the hol than in school so no need to take work with us - how amazing is that?  Don't know if that would happen these days.

> As for barky dogs, I'll stick up for them too a bit, yes they are annoying, but when my mum's street got hit by a gang of burgulars they didnt touch her and her immediate neighbours.  Just 7 others in the street. Thanks Sam and RIP my barky boy.

Bless Sam and 'Barky Boy' I think my neighbours like my dogs barking [we're at the end of a row] it keeps all sorts away!

I am so with you on that Masonsmum!!!

2 adorable mutts. Boomer is a German Shepherd/Collie mix and Lola is a Queensland Heeler/Border Collie/Australian Shepherd mix. They are my babies:)