i was at the vets yesterday getting 1 of my girls spayed ,and in walks this woman with a pup rapped up in a blanket so i say what breed you got? she shows me and its a little girl shih tzu she was beautiful ,i looked and siad how small she was ,well we got talking and she breed the littler AND GUESS WHAT!!! ****SHE DID THIS FOR A DAUGHTER TO SEE ****** i sat there with my mouth open!!!! she siad ive not done it for the money!!! i siad how have you paid for eveything ,she said i carnt bleave how much its cost and now im asking my family and friends for some money cus the little girl she was at the vets for is very poorly :( ....., i havnt stopped thinking about just how stupid this woman has been.

What a load of piffle the woman spoke, don't believe her for one minute, she did it for the money and soon found out there often is none, serves her right.

I'll tell you why I don't believe her if you want your child to experience birth you don't go out and mate an animal, put the bitch and pups at risk with all that hard work and spend 8 weeks washing and cleaning up wee and poo for a show and tell, how many people would think to do that? No, you'd get books to explain along with having to sit through those horrible birthing video's at school.

Children don't ask for such experiences.

For those of us who breed for the right reasons, yes it is wonderous for a child to see what happens, it's a bonus, but no-one does it for the effect. But then again, what do I really know of some people and the way their brain works. Perhaps she will wish to show a foal being born next, oh what about a Tiger cub?

Some people............

Every time I have a litter born I am glad my children are NOT around to watch as it truly is NOT a pretty sight -involving blood and afterbirths and more blood and often trying to revive puppies or kittens and sometimes failing -not something I want a child to see at all.

My daughter wanted to watch a litter being born after we had had several as she was usually at school, when she did she wished she hadn't.  She found the smell of birth the hardest to take, watching a video you are removed from it.

My daughter wanted to watch our girl having pups (it was a planned litter)..it was a fri night when it all started..she watched the 3rd being born as she was out for the others....she almost passed out!!
Dont think she will be watching again..

Stupid woman!!

Have never even considered any of my children being present during the whelping and they have never asked. I consider it to be a very private time between myself and my bitch, my husband is present in case I need him but that is it.
I agree it is not the sort of thing children should be present for, I mean how would they cope with watching you revive a seemingly lifeless puppy for a start ?

>I mean how would they cope with watching you revive a seemingly lifeless puppy for a start ?

That's what learning about life is all about - that it's not all roses.

That's what learning about life is all about - that it's not all roses.

Yes but that lesson will be learnt whether they WATCH a pup die or are just told about it afterwards. I'd rather do it afterwards when I had the time to explain properly.

Exactly MarianneB - and mine have learned about it afterwards due to puppies not making it. They have also learned about life and death when their grandad died, pet rabbit, elderly dog etc etc.
We all have to know about these things , but we don't exactly all go out of our way to witness people dying etc in order to accept that we all die sometime ! In the same way that we don't all need to witness a baby being born to understand all about birth.

Therefore no need to let children be present during whelping ! Silly to suggest otherwise.

Apart from that, if I was trying to revive a puppy, it wouldn't exactly help me in my task - or the pup - to have my children getting upset and stressed by what was going on.

> to have my children getting upset and stressed by what was going on.

As a child I attended/assisted in many welping and births of  other animals, not once did I get stressed or upset even when I was the one helping to revive the pups.

i wouldnt want my children watching pups being born ,i really dont think theres any need for it ,but thats my take on it! ...it can be to frightening ,......but the woman at the vets was "dont know how to but it" thick sorry but the things she was sayin ,she never even read anything about pregnency or whelping :( ....i sat there in shock! with my mouth open my hubby said ,she breed with a friends dog :(

my daughter was 16 when our girl had pups...that was the only reason she was allowed to watch..any younger and no i wouldnt have let her...
she knew the risks involved of the pups possibly dying etc, but still chose to watch. The 4th pup was stillborn due to being quite large, we tried to bring him back without success..we were all upset, but at least she realises that things can go wrong.

(Every time I have a litter born I am glad my children are NOT around to watch as it truly is NOT a pretty sight -involving blood and afterbirths and more blood and often trying to revive puppies or kittens and sometimes failing -not something I want a child to see at all. )

I suppose it depends on the child.
I was 10 when I first saw a litter born after previously seen rabbits, guinea pigs, mice and hampsters born. Then as now, I can't help but feel 'wonder' at how the Mums know exactly what to do for their babies.
My son also helped with a litter when he was about 11. He's also seen various other animals born. He wasn't fazed at all.
If there's a problem then yes that's part of life and how children learn.

im sure when you started helping you was told what was going to happen ? and maybe you where more grown up then some kids the age you was ...but i know mine and i know they couldnt handle any being born dead ,so i think it does depend on how you are as a child! :) x

>My son also helped with a litter when he was about 11. He's also seen various other animals born. He wasn't fazed at all.

My son helped at lambing when he was about 7. Lambs often take a lot of getting going (and birthing is much messier than a whelping!) and often don't make it. He realised that's nature's way - the weakest don't survive, and it never bothered him. It didn't affect his care for the living ones though.

"As a child I attended/assisted in many welping and births of  other animals, not once did I get stressed or upset even when I was the one helping to revive the pups"

Well, that was fine for you. My point is, there is no good reason to have children present during the whelping, the fewer people around the bitch the better IMO. I am the best person to try and revive any puppies if need be, particularly with my nursing background and there is nothing to be gained from having an audience.

My children do play a vital role (IMO) in helping to socialise the puppies though, and handle them from a few days old, something they and the puppies thrive on, especially from 3 weeks +.

We older ones must have had a terrible time as kids, think my first human death I saw happening was at about 6, helped my nana lay folk out by 8, pulled on the wire to help gdad cut calves up inside the cow so she could pass it coz it was positioned badly!

Did the lambing in the fields, saw pups being born, well anything on the farm and used to do our own culls for xmas and easter orders as well as going out on a 'mission' (yeah I was a kid thought it was great fun lol)under the cover of darkness to collect other folks chickens they wanted slaughtering and dressing.  They couldn't do it themselves incase it upset the kids, we always knew 'who' we were eating for sunday lunch so a litter of pups being born wasn't an issue as far as smell, mess and 'flat' babies went it was just the law of nature.

My own kids were present at whelpings, after all they were part of the family and the bitches accepted their presence, whenever they were home or wanted to be. They were sad if any died or something went wrong but didn't end up traumatised by it all again accepting its life.  At the end of the day how YOU as their parent react and behave during these events will teach them far more, if you flap they'll learn to flap, if you just deal they'll do the same. I have a drama queen for a daughter she HAS to flap its part of her personality, before she gets down to dealing with it, we just ignore her, she pulls herself together and copes  brilliantly.  Good job too on account of her sisters life threatening allergies, if she'd not learned to cope better her sister would be dead after their horrors of the New Year. Funny how you don't worry about sticking ya only sibling with a huge needle when they're swelling and going grey she said she could never do it, I told her she would coz the alternative was far worse she ended up doing it 6 times  so far this year and remembering to ring 999 After she'd done it, I am so proud of them both for coping.

Its just everybodys choice as to whether they want their children to see it or not.
My son saw the lot as a child...cows,sheep,horses and dogs all having their offspring on the farm being born and it did him no harm,just made him repect nature for how it is.

> SHE DID THIS FOR A DAUGHTER TO SEE

Oh dear :(:(
Regardless of wheather people think children should or should not witness the birth of puppies, planning a litter with the reason 'it's for the kids to see' is just so wrong :(:(

It makes me mad and I've never bred a litter. All you breeders that invest so much time researching and plannig the right mating for the best possible litter, must be so cross at stupid people like this :(

> Well, that was fine for you.

Yes it was and gave me some valuable experience.

> there is no good reason to have children present during the whelping, the fewer people around the bitch the better IMO

Sometime in certain breeds with a large litter it may be necessary for a all hands on deck approach. We were taught how to behave around the bitch.

> and there is nothing to be gained from having an audience.
>

Totally agree and I was participating my presence allowed my mother to have toilet breaks, have a cuppa. Even if no problems with the whelping I still assisted with recording the details of the litter, making the bitch comfy or whatever task was to hand. My other siblings were not really interested, however I was going to be a vet, unfortunately my Maths did not make the grade.

>> SHE DID THIS FOR A DAUGHTER TO SEE
> Oh dear :-(:-(
> Regardless of wheather people think children should or should not witness the birth of puppies, planning a litter with the reason 'it's for the kids to see' is just so wrong :-(:-(
>
>

Absoulutely agree :)

What was wrong with showing her the miracle of life on 'You Tube'? Plenty of videos on there!!! Make you laugh don't they!
Mel.x

I'm another that has always been around watching pups being born and sadly with the Pom's the occasional loss and sadly once the loss of the mother during giving birth. 

I feel sorry for the puppies, i hope they are still getting the best care now she has run out of money! And is not cutting back

All my children have watched, been around if the bitch was happy for them to be.  What could they learn?  That things are natural, that things can go wrong, how do expect them to be educated about real life!  She has cuddled a pup as it took its last breaths (due to being born too small), bought one into the world when it was her dog that was breed.  I am a responsible breeder who would wishes to pass my knowledge onto the one person in my life who shares my dreams and aspirations.  The others have never been to bothered, but they dont show, so to them its all just boring.  Although I do catch them playing with the pups when im not looking!

How can we teach a generation of new breeders of how to do things right if we dont let them get involved.  My husband got involved with every new foal that was born on his mum's stud farm from being able to walk.  When we thought about having our own foal he new all about the pitfalls and we made the right decision at the time not to go ahead, but without his knowledge we could have made a mistake and listened to the peer pressure we were getting.

My daughter has presented to her class a 30 page topic on breeding pups and what a wonderful one it was.  I was so proud of her about how much she knew.  A vet in the making.

What White Lily was so rightly pointing out was that the litter should be bought into this world for the right reasons and not just so her kid could get educated!! 

My children have been present if they have been home, as they have during matings (had to take them with me), they are very matter of a fact about the facts of life and death.

My son was the youngest at a whelping, probably my second litter when he would have been 5, and my daughter the year later found the smell off putting, but was a great deal of help the following year with my bitch popping out 9 like shelling peas, and keeping watch while I had to cook or shop, but she was 10 by then.

My children have also attended funerals, which seems to be something many think children should not do, but I think it is possibly cultural, as the Polish catholic background * am from, that is the norm.

I have heard this said more than once " I am thinking of breeding from her for the kids and anyway its good for a dog to have a litter isn't it "
I shudder at the thought, the other conversation I have had a few times is people trying to pursade me to mate with their dog/bitch because the pups would be lovely it is now almost a relief that i can say with honesty that mine are both neutered that stop the conversation in it tracks
As for children seeing whelpings I guess it is partly up to your life style ie farmers and partly your feelings you know you dog and your kids. Similar question to children being present at birth of siblings its right for some and not others.
My daughter was present at her friends babies birth but she is 17. I was unsure of how she would find it being that she can be a bit dramatic but took it all in her stride and is pleased to have supported her friend .
As to funerals my family have included the children we did not force them but gave them the choice and made arrangements to have someone available to take them out they didn't want to stay. The youngest at 4 obviously didn't understand but she was fine and in the future she will know she was not excluded