my staffy is supposed to have papers but i got it off the guy who bought it off the breeder and i never got the papers so i was wondering wer i cud get dem bcoz i dont no the breeder and i was wonderin if i went to the vets wer it was vaccinated wud they have a copy off the papers PLEASE HELP ME!!!!

No, I'm afraid the vet won't have a copy of the papers. If the person you bought him/her from doesn't have them you'd have to contact the breeder (at least the person you got him/her from would know who that was!). As you're in Ireland the IKC would have a copy but you'd need to know the breeder details to them to know which papers were wanted.

but i think another person  had her aswell so it might be difficult and i dont know if she is in the ikc

If she is IKC reg'd then she must be microchipped.

> supposed to have papers

Did he say the dog was registered with the Kennel Club?  I was reading an article recently where buyers were being sold dogs with 'papers', but these were nothing more than homemade computer printed pedigrees featuring unregistered dogs.

Ideally you want to trace the original breeder - preferably through the person you bought the dog from.  Alternatively do you know the full name of your dog?  If you know the affix you may be able to trace the breeder direct.

The vets won't have copies of registration documents but might have the dog listed by it's full name (affix).  Whether they agree to divulge this info is a different matter as ownership has changed.  As a last resort you may be able to trace original owner/breeder using the microchip number if your dog has one fitted.  The vet will be able to scan for you.

Sadly this breed is much exploited by puppy farmers - you may find that is an unregistered dog.  Good breeders will often rehome their own puppies so are unlikely to be sold in the way you describe.

I found the IKC very helpful when it came to tracing owners/breeders via MC details. So get your dog to the vet and ask him/her to scan the dog. If she hasnt got a chip then the chances that she is reg'd are nil.

>but i think another person  had her aswell so it might be difficult and i dont know if she is in the ikc

If she's not registered with the IKC (or the British KC, which is very unlikely) then the papers aren't worth having. Enjoy her as a lovely pet. :-)

i have the microchip papers and every thing and got them transfered to my name and i was wondering will it cost to bring her to the vet to trace the owner or to just go in and ask plz reply

also wud i be able to ask for the name coz i got the vaccine leaflet ting and all just no papers

If you have the MC details then contact the IKC and ask if a dog with this MC number is reg'd there. And if you transfered the MC details into your name then you must know the details of the previous owner as they need to give their consent.

but i think another person  had her aswell so it might be difficult and i dont know if she is in the ikc

So we have:

Breeder
1st owner
2nd owner
Now you.

Who told you the dog came with IKC papers? (Actually silly question must have been the 2nd owner) so when you bought/were given the dog what was the excuse for no papers being there?  Did this person tell you that you needed to trace the breeder to see if there were any papers?

The lesson is not to buy any dog unless the papers are there. If the dog does have IKC papers the breeder will have transfered them to the first owner, in which case going back to the breeder will be no good they can not transfer to you as the pup is in someone elses name. You would need to trace the 1st owner, but then if there were papers in the first place why would the first owner not transfer to the 2nd owner, makes no sense why you would have no papers with the pup, I would guess there never were any.

Are the papers important to you? If so, then never take a dog without the papers infront of you, you'll probably just be on a wild goose chase. This poor dog is on it's 3rd home, I would just enjoy her and give her a final forever home poor thing deserves it.

Just love her. :-)

Hiya,

I agree with above, don't worry about the papers - the poor girl is just a young pup and on her third home already.  I would just concentrate on building a bond with her and socialising and training her and giving her the life that she deserves - those are the things that make you a good owner and make her yours and your hers not a piece of paper.

Enjoy her :-)

Of course if you were charged a high price for a papered dogs and she was advertised as such, the seller has breached their contract and you would have a claim against them under the sale of goods act for misrepresentation. 

Might teach the person not to try and cheat people.

Agree with the others poor mite to be pushed from pillar to post in a short 8 months! :(

ye its not really important shes a lovely dog and i dont need papers to love her but if she had pups they wud be worth more wit papers because i wanna become a registered breeder

Be careful with the breeding idea particulaly if you dont know her full history including the lines she comes from.
Even health testing her which imo has to be done you cannot be sure of her parents and grandparents health and temperment. As you know staffs are being bred so much at the moment and there are so many ending up in rescue

Staffy pups are ten-a-penny at the moment; rescue kennels are reporting about 50% of their intake are staffies or staffy crosses. There is absolutely no market for them, so whether you have papers for her or not, please don't breed from her.

Staffiemad,

If you wish to start breeding you really need to do some homework BEFORE you buy a puppy.
Learn what lines you like and would like to start breeding with, get in touch with a breeder whose dogs you like and reserve a puppy & build a relationship with the breeder.
You really want to start right from the beginning.
Starting with a girl whose lineage you have no idea of is really not a good idea.
Even if she has papers, you have no idea of the dogs on the papers and she was not chosen because of her background was she.
You need to ask yourself why do you want to breed Staffies?

please go to your nearest rescue and have a look down the kennels and then have a think whether the world needs more Staffys. 
all those pleading eyes were once cute staffy pups, all full of promise and with new owners who swore they would love them forever and within less then a year have decided a staffy does not fit their lifestyle and dump them.  do you really want to be responsible for more broken hearted young dogs?

> do you really want to be responsible for more broken hearted young dogs?

and lots more dead ones, as the destruction rate in Ireland is very high.

Most rescues here dont take Staffies and hand out my number like hot buns. Last week alone I had to turn away 12 Staffies from private homes and more calls from people who work in Pounds. Most Pounds here do not rehome Bull Breeds and being brought to the Pound is a sure death sentence for any Bull Breed regardless of age or temperament.

I am SICK and TIRED of people wanting to breed more Staffies, the country and the pounds are FULL of them.

As this bitch is already in her third home, it seems very likely any pups could share a similar if not worse fate.

This is not the time to breed Staffies.  If it were a champion bitch vital in a long established breeding program, then maybe, but such breeders have long waiting lists of serious buyers for their puppies.

I agree. This is a pet bitch who should be spayed after her first season and have a relaxed life purely as a pet.

Staffie mad you need to digest this
"Most rescues here dont take Staffies and hand out my number like hot buns. Last week alone I had to turn away 12 Staffies from private homes and more calls from people who work in Pounds. Most Pounds here do not rehome Bull Breeds and being brought to the Pound is a sure death sentence for any Bull Breed regardless of age or temperament.

I am SICK and TIRED of people wanting to breed more Staffies, the country and the pounds are FULL of them."
Quoted from Otterhound who is based in Ireland too.

Do you want to be adding to this problem? Do you want your pups to become part of this statistic?
To find exceptional homes for each and every pup you have is hard.
Even those which have had prior breed knowledge and experienced dog owners, which you'd think would be perfect homes can infact
cause problems as society today doesn't really want to put the effort in to having well mannered dogs and when the going gets tough
they opt for the easy option for them - rehome the 'problem' and get a new one....which ends up with the same 'problem'...and thus
the vicious cycle doesn't end...

Obviously some take bad advice for training and some bullbreeds can be more of a challenge than others to train.
Some are misunderstood by trainers and so incorrectly labelled as trouble and so not socialised etc and the little 'over exhuberance'
problem becomes a more serious problem.
Reputable breeders will have the pups they've bred back at any time in the dogs life, can you do this and safely?
As some breeds do not mix well with too many or single sex households.

As much as you love your dog, you shouldn't be seeing pups = euro signs. Especially when the bitch concerned is only 10 months old!!
Having a litter of pups isn't cheap nor easy and the expense comes before you are able to sell any of the pups.
You have 8 weeks of feeding how ever many pups are born, clearing up the poop and pee that they generate..
Looking after a litter is 24/7 job. Are you in a position to give over 8 weeks plus to look after dam and pups?
To socialise them to all different sounds and experiences as possible whilst they are at home with you?
To be prepared for any vets bills that come up and also to be prepared to hand rear the litter?
Some people do not consider that they could lose the dam in the whelping...it can and does happen.
Having a litter of pups isn't risk free to the dam.

To be honest taking into consideration Otterhound's experiences in Ireland especially with the bullbreeds
enjoy your girl as a valued family member, get her spayed.

> Do you want to be adding to this problem?

Yes I'm afraid they do.

From the minute you read " I'm looking for my dogs 'papers'.....you just know it's for breeding and if its a SBT or staff-type it's guaranteed.

if she had pups they wud be worth more wit papers because i wanna become a registered breeder

Unfortunately, Tooolz you are dead right,

The only difference papers will make to this OP is an extra £100 on the price per pup.

It is pointless talking to 'breeders' like this, it really is. We need the TV and poster campaigns NOW! We need to reach the general public NOW! We need to drill into them they should never buy a pup that is not KC registered with full breed specific health and line temperament checks, everyone deserves a pup from good lines. It is all we need to put bad breeders out of business, when will it start and why won't it start? How many more deaths and rescues in crisis will it take, we're forever chasing our tails here.

Though to be honest, I have a feeling this is a WUM but I guess it makes no difference these kind of breeders are out there in their thousands.

>The only difference papers will make to this OP is an extra £100 on the price per pup.

If that. Some people are having to give staffy puppies away because they can't sell them. The breeders are only likely to cover their costs if the dam is herself very well-bred and the sire a Champion. Otherwise from a callous financial point of view it's just not worth it.

Very true!

> and rescues in crisis

Battersea have had to start a waiting list for dogs waiting to come in, many rescues have to do this, yet many relinquishing owners will dump the dog or take it to be PTS as they won't or say the dog must go now.

We have a friend with a Staffie they had at 5 weeks old as the breeder who had the two pups and Mum in a flat begged them to take it as in was driving her to distraction.

They now have a neighbour with a Staff bitch mated to their American bulldog male with a litter and are tempted to have a puppy.

We are pressurising them not to give such an irresponsible puppy producer money, but plenty of people do.  Half of the 8 pups ahve already been sold for £450

Has anyone seen a programme called Wonderland: 7 pups for 7 people.....the woman had a litter of staffs and they had a starting price of £350 I think it was...I think she only got this for a couple of pups and the rest were given away or forced on family members and she even had to end up having one back because the man got kicked out of his house and couldnt even afford the second vaccination. Was quite sad to watch and the woman was tearing her hair out by the end of it all.

"Is this the Bull Breed Rescue?"

"Yes, it is, how may I help?"

"I've got a bitch and four pups, Staffies."

"Staffordshire Bullterrier?"

"No, Staffies!"

"I see... what do you want me to do?"

"I need to get rid of them ASAP, can't sell them and they start to destroy the place, Dogstrust in Dublin gave me your number. When can you come and pick them up?"

......

Phone conversation this morning at half past nine.

I'm constantly asked if I'm going to have a litter from my cocker girl... she's not good enough (very pretty and fab colour though ) but that is not enough to warrant a litter....

Not only that, I don't want to risk her health for a quick buck.  My puppies breeder recently had a litter from another of his bitches.  IF he had been hoping to make money from the litter he most certainly did not, she ended up with emergency ceasarian and lost the pups too, so with the stud fee, he was over £1000 out of pocket and nearly lost his girl.  Don't suppose she'll have another litter now either....

So is it worth breeding and risking what you have to add to an already saturated market?

Just a word of warning ... sadly there are more staffies, and their crosses, in rescue centres than any other breed!!!  If you don't have papers, especially if you're unlikely to get hold of them, then you don't know the parentage and the health background.