Right baby born Monday 155am by C-section...mom upset she didn't get the birth she wanted. Now she has wanted to breastfeed all along and she was doing well at it...baby eating was happy etc.
He now is jaundice and needs to spend time under the photo therapy lights..which we expected.  He has to go nude into the incubator which is set to 34c  fair enough....they are now insisting he be topped up with formula by bottle so he wont be fussy when he is under the lights. Last night instead of helping her to feed him they gave him a bottle right away. Since she had the section her legs have swollen and she is wear the stockings but has limited mobility and relies on them to help her position the baby for feeding and to put him back in his bed or under the lights.
When he is out of the "box" (as we call it) he is alert and happy. He just doesn't seem to like being left on his back exposed so he cries. They seem to take that as a sing she is not feeding enough and then it is a reason to "top up".
She stood up for herself and they were not happy and sad if they didn't think he was getting enough then he "WOULD HAVE TO BE TOPPED UP"...DD said they were not cross but not nice about it either.
Since she didn't get the birth she wanted I am trying to support he wish to feed the way she wants and the nurses seem to pressure her when I am not there. They are being very strict on when I can visit and I myself don't feel confident to speak up only because they don't do anything in front of me. I am not sure how long he and she will have to stay in hospital but I am starting to worry the feeding will be permanently ruined if they keep insisting he has to have a bottle. She rang  me last night in tears when they wouldn't help and gave the bottle instead. I can notice a change in how he is trying to suckle after they give him one....
I plan to ring a support group for advice....but am not sure how to deal with the nurses...they have signs up everywhere in support of breastfeeding but they seem to undermine it for their convenience..
She texted me she wanted to give up as they weren't helping....I feel really bad for her..she feels like cr@p and not getting the help she needs but they wont let me in to help her either....
Hopefully the support volunteer will have ideas.

Thanks I am soooo tired right now and just keep going...:-)

Hi Freewayz,

I think it would be much easier for you to look at this site below, it explains the different types of jaundice. If the nurses suspect breasfeeding jaundice then topping up is no bad thing, but it does depend on which type it is. So if I were you I would firstly read below and go and ask some questions, so that you are both clear on what is going on.

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/firstyearoflife/breastfeedingandjaundice.htm

I know when my first son was born, and I was totally new to the whole thing for some reason (I don't even know why) my son was put in a heated incubator a few feet away from me after my stitches were done, the nurse left and he began crying, now I was like sausage to this! I'm not lying here listening to my baby crying, lying in an incubator, I got out of that bed and went and took him out got back in bed and began breastfeeding him, the nurse came in and looked a little shocked that I had gone and got him out, but I just looked at her as if to say, it's my baby and she said nothing.

So, if your daughter wishes to breastfeed tell her to do so, to get her baby and do it, and to tell the nurses she wishes to breastfeed they won't say no if she holds her own. :-) It's her baby, unless there is a real reason not to do so, then she should stand up for herself, she's the mum no-one else.

DS was born 12 weeks prem.  I wanted to breastfeed but had had 2 ops simultaneously (ceasar and burst appendix/endo ) and had no milk :(   I was also bedridden and antibiotics for over a week :(   I managed to get an electric pump organised, and baby was fed with formula at first (against my wishes)    I continued on the pump until I was off ab's and then was able to save the milk by freezing. Meanwhile my 3 week old babe was rushed 30 miles for an emergency op and I followed on.  He was then fed intravenously for 11days while I still pumped.  Eventually he was allowed oral feeds from the bottle - my milk at last!.  A month later I took him home bottle and breast feeding and after a week the pump went back to Boots :-D  IT IS POSSIBLE!

I was told it couldn't be done and he would never breast feed, but being told something can't be done is like a red rag to me - knew it would be best for him and me ;)

Your daughter needs to speak to whichever nurse is in charge of the ward - as senior as possible - a MIDWIFE may be best ;)  I found them marvellous.  Some nurses I found can be a pain and arrange things only to suit themselves, one of them was removed from the maternity ward as she acted unprofessionally regarding my post-op care , another I wouldn't allow near my son after she bathed him for the first time in the SCBU without me and lied about me being asleep - other mothers told me and reported it   I was told I could have had her sacked

As long as your daughter wants to breastfeed then she should be able to.  If baby needs 'topping up' then she should be allowed to either pump or give water.  My daughter was Jaundiced and I continued to breastfeed even while she was under the blue lights, those nurses at least tried to help ;)

Don't be afraid to speak up on your daugfhter's behalf, she is vulnerable after giving birth and these nurses know it

Good luck - give them h*ll

Crikey! - sorry about the long post :(

Can she not express her milk for little one? Tell your daughter to speak with the Senior Nurse or Senior Doctor on duty and talk about her concerns so that she can be more informed. If the staff in her opinion being overtly pushy and not informing your daughter and not allowing her input into her Childs care then contact the Patient Advice/Liaison Service.

My daughter had a terrible time in hospital she felt she couldn't deal with it as the staff where pushy in the end I put my foot down. If you can speak in the right person's ear then all can be resolved very easy with no animosity so maybe you try and talk on her behalf.

nothing to do with maternity, but when i was in hospital afetr spine surgery last may, the night staff were dreadful, the day staff  couldnt do enough for you, bearing in mind i was more or less bed bound for 6 weeks. but i had several run ins with the night staff. i was desperate for toilet one night after having catheter taken out and pushed the buzzer for help to get to the toilet which was all of 5 steps away, a carer came in and asked if i could hold on for another hour because she didnt want to go and wake up the duty nurse to ask if i was ok to get out of bed, i was fuming at this, id already been holding it for ages because id finally managed to get reasonably comfy, so in a moment of madness and slightly out of it on morphine, ketamine etc i threw the covers back and pi$$ed over the bed, and told the "carer" that she'd have to go and get the nurse now because my bed needed changing! needless to say it was done in 5 mins and in the following few weeks when i pressed my buzzer they came to help me.

i wouldnt dare do that sort of thing now, but then again im not bed bound or having ketamine now, so i am quite lucid.

what im saying is, dont wet the bed, but stand up to them, and you'll find that things do get done. like i said, the day staff were GODS and i literally owe my life to them, but a bad experience with 2 members of night staff has left me with a sour taste in my mouth when i know im facing surgery again soon.

I really feel for you and your daughter. Some good advice on here , get in touch with any of the support groups, nct  ,le leche league they will be able to give good advice. As I understand jaundice is not unusual in breast fed babies in particular and as carrington says there are different reasons for it. your daughter should be allowed to demand feed as much as she and baby want yes  of course in between being an incubator for him.  Trouble is babies are all different and often breastfed ones feed differently and more frequently which causes problems in hopsitalTell her not to panic to much about the top bottles while not ideal to establish breast feeding she will be able to get over it. Same story with my son and after we got home he was bf for a year. There should be a breastfeeding counsellor in the hopsital as well who should help and be on her side. Poor thing she doesn't need all this after a birth and a caesar as well , reasure her that once she gets home things shpould improve. I personally found the le leche league excellent albeit very natural everything.
I hope nothing I have said offends anyone I am speaking from personal experience  and yes Tanya I also found night staff generally much less empathetic than the day staff and that wasn't just maternity

Some great advice on here Freewayz.  Your daughter has rights so DEMAND THEM.  Good Luck, and I hope that you get to speak to the right person.

I know your daughter is very tired & emotional, she probably feels poorly but please try to make her stand up for herself. As a mum of three I've found our maternity nurses short tempered with no time at all for me. After my first baby I tried to breastfeed but was so inexperienced I just didn't know what I was doing, after losing her patience with me I said to this particular nurse can I have a bottle as I was so worried that my baby was hungry and she told me that I was giving up and would 'come to love my baby' in the most horrible manner. I was so upset. If it was now 13yrs later theres no way I'd let anybody speak to me in that way. Congratulations to you, you may be the one who has to speak up for her.

Dill - someone should give you a medal - I am seriously impressed.  My daughter would be horrified at the OPs story.  She has just had her third child and has trained to be a breastfeeding support person.  If these nurses are giving top up bottles at this stage then the OP's daughter will really find it difficult for her milk to come in.  She needs to be feeding as often as possible.   My daughter said she could hear wrong advice being given in the hospital ward around her and firmly believes that most people can breast feed - given the right support.  She wasn't given any help and support when she had her first child - but she persevered and read as much as possible.  How awful that they are restricting your visiting.  I do wish her luck and I hope that you can support her as best as possible.  Try to find out if there is a breast feeding support group in the area.

here here ceejay I agree with your daughter

2 of mine needed to go in the 'fish tank' and i also worked as a midwife for 3 years so my reply comes from both sides !

'she didn't get the birth she wanted' -  no , she got what the doctors thought was safest for Mum and baby . They don't do sections lightly due to the cost involved , the staff time needed , because the bed is blocked for 4-7 days , and  most importantly due to the risks involved to Mum and baby .
In the time i worked in a unit we lost 2 Mums after section , and i also lost a family member 7 days after she had a v@ginal delivery . Pregnancy and birth is a dangerous thing and several women die in this country every year . 

They are probably topping up to help flush out the jaundice , she needs to tell them that she wants to exclusively breast feed . In some cases a top up is neccesary but she should offer all she has in both breasts before a bottle is given .

No baby likes it under the lights but it is a necessary evil ! Although ours always wore a nappy for obvious reasons . Mine were under about 48 hours - ask about his blood tests and how they are improving , and an estimate of how long he will need it .

They are strict on visiting to allow all mums to rest , and to reduce chances of infection . As a nurse myself i know how visitors can get in the way  and it was much better for staff and patients when we had afternoon and evening visiting years ago .

Lastly , don't forget that the baby blues kick in around day 3 or 4 . Expect her to be upset .  And don't forget to get lots of rest yourself .
They will soon be home and settled , if she is anything like me she will just want to get back to her own bed !

Forgot to say , i always found it easier to feed when lying on my side with a pillow behind baby to keep him safe .

Regarding her swollen legs - obviously she wears the stockings to help prevent DVT after surgery . She also needs to do leg exercises every hour on the hour that she is awake . Point and pull up the toes about 20 - 30 times , and turn the feet round to the left 20 or so times then to the right 20 or so times . Leg exercises are very important , aswell as wearing the stockings .

Don't be afraid to speak to the staff , you have every right to enquire about their progress .
I know everyone seems to moan about being short staffed but on maternity they really are . When a lady has a section they have 2 patients to look after - the lady and her baby , but they don't get extra staff !

Hope you are all feeling brighter soon . XXX

Thanks for all the help.

Things nearly came to blows :-) (not really but felt like it)....

I know they sectioned her for a reason (cord around baby's neck so he wasn't going get out any other way) BUT that doesn't lessen the disappointment she felt

I think the main thing that has upset my daughter is not WHAT they were doing but the fact they just did it. On the last rest period the nurse wanted to top up with the bottle and she said no I don't want him to have a bottle. The nurse was a bit stroppy and my daughter lost the plot. She wasn't nasty but had a hysterical moment....(I think you all know what I mean) Well the nurse told her if he ended up back in the box it would be all her fault because she wouldn't allow topping up etc....DD got mad told the nurse to eff off (not right thing to do but it got the ball rolling) nurse left and got the sister....sister had a chat with her and was very nice in the manner she spoke to DD. DD told her what was going on and how she felt she wasn't getting enough support etc..and how she wasn't objecting to fluids being given if he needed BUT she wanted to be given the chance to do it herself and that she didn't want him to have a bottle....It was then the nurse told her he could have been cup fed instead. She wasn't even informed of what other options she had. So when I finally got in she was in puddles and quite upset....I took the offending nurse aside and said we needed to discuss what went on and she agreed. We had a nice chat..calmly put forth our views, which were
DD wasn't being talked to about her baby's care. Obviously wasn't being given all the options and that she hadn't been supported in trying to learn how to get baby to feed properly. They are also telling her to wait 3 hrs between feeds when their own book says 2hrs max and more often for the first fews days to get the milk flowing properly.
So tonight she was getting the help she needed and was given a pump to drain off excess to make it easier for baby to feed and so if he needed extra they would have some in the fridge on hand for cup feeding. Nurse said she would tell the night staff no bottles to be given.

I really do understand how busy the maternity ward is and I understand how they might not have the time to sit with everyone. However all they had to do was talk to her and explain. After our chat it took all of 10 minutes for nurse to show DD how to get baby on...he had a feed for 30min...fell asleep for 10min had another feed then slept for 3hrs sound out. Definitely would have save themselves time.

Anyway...his jaundice was caused by three factors....he is BF, she has low thyroid and they will test him in a few days time....and her blood type is Rhesus factor negitive and the dad is positive she had to take the anti d injections so was high risk for jaundice as well. 

I BF all of mine and the first was hard as my mom undermined me and I ended up doing it for 3 months...the next two were longer 6 and 9 months. Once I got the hang of it I found it far easier than bottles...no formula to mix...heat up..PAY FOR...bottles to clean etc...
cheap and easy..:-)

Again another sleepless ramble on but I really do APPRECIATE all the replies.
I know nurses work really hard but sometimes all it takes is talking to people.
Ahhh finally done...

Night night and thanks...

I will soon post his pics in my profile link...to tired tonight. :-)

I hope that your sense of relief (from doing something about it), will ensure a good nights rest.

Good for you.  :-)

So glad your dughter is now getting the support she needs :)  It should have been there at the start.

BUT
I can't believe that 26 years after my daughter was born, your daughter is getting the same treatment and lack of support as I had as a new mother

This is totally unacceptable after all the 'new breastfeeding initiatives' and 'retraining' that nurses are supposed to have had in the intervening time.  NOTHING has changed !

This is good news  Freewayz also make sure it is written in the medical notes when you next visit.

Congrats to you all I hope your daughter and grandchild recover soon.

> are also telling her to wait 3 hrs between feeds when their own book says 2hrs max and more often for the first fews days to get the milk flowing properly.
>

When I had mine it was demand feeding, first child would go 3 or 4 hours, my son fed every two hours.

> the first was hard as my mom undermined me and I ended up doing it for 3 months..

In my case MIL undermined me and I gave up after two months.  With second I was on my own with a 3 1/2 years old to look after, and as you say it was so much easier to BF and read to other one at same time etc.  At night I just rolled over and gave the other breast and back again (he did not sleep through for months), so I was rested to deal with them both in the morning.

Only problem was getting him to stop, 14 months ;)