My bitch (medium pastoral breed) had her pups on 23/01/10 bang on the right day.  There were only 2 pups and both incredibly small and puny, I could not believe it when I looked at them, the looked so undernourished.  The mum has had extra food, she has had panacurr from the 40th day as it advises.  Could it be the Panacurr I know it's not supposed to have that effect but I am clutching at straws.  The bitch pup was 8oz and the dog pup 7oz, he is having difficulty sucking but has put on a little bit of weight.   His feet are also very red, they both look like premature pups, but that is definately not the case. Any ideas please?

> His feet are also very red

Red noses and feet are an excellent sign, showing good oxygenation of the blood....blueish or grey feet are the danger signs.

Sad that they are poorly done so far but if mum has good milk they will take off - if you supervise well - by this I mean ensure that he is on the teat when the bitches milk 'lets down'. This is the maximum flow time and can be missed by tired weak puppies. You need to get the vigourous one sucking the milk down and be there to help the little one get his share.

Good luck with them.

Thanks very much for the info, It's cheered me up, I keep thinking it's something I've done or haven't done. I have bred before but never had such scrawny pups.  It wouldn't be anything to do with the sire would it, he was only 12 months old?

I seriously doubt any issues to pups from panacur.

I have used it for 6 generations, and had the odd small pup but mostly pups average or large for their breed.

It is more likely that there were issues in the pregnancy that caused the rest of the litter to be lost and the surviving two were the lucky ones.

There could have been a low level of the hormones that maintain pregnancy, or more likely poor placentas.

My Lexi missed in October, but on palpation there was just one bead detected, but all early signs of pregnancy disappeared by 6 weeks.  I suspect her hormones were not quite in harmony, as the during the season/mat9ing the dog and she were both a bit 'Oh well lets do it then', normally my girl is very rampant as is her suitor.

> Could it be the Panacurr

I do mine from day 40 and have never had a problem, and that's in a toy breed.  I was amazed at the birth weight of your girls pups though.  No wonder you are perplexed!

I can't add the wealth of knowledge that Barbara can, so won't even try.  Just wanted you to know that lots of us Panacur during pregnancy.

Thank goodness we are able to compare notes.  I do wish you well with the puppies.

My first litter I had the first born weigh only 6oz compared to her sisters who were 12, 13 and 14oz each.

My vet said that her placenta had failed to nourish her sufficiently or position in the womb poor.

She gained well and was 2 pounds lighter than siblings at 8 weeks weighing 9lbs to their 11lb.  At 11 months when I net saw her in person she was an average size bitch.

In later litters I found any pup weighing 9lb - 11lb would be average size for the breed and in fact their puppy weights had very little to do with the size or substance they attained as adults.

> My first litter I had the first born weigh only 6oz

   Barbara - I've had very large Chi's weigh that!!!!

It is so helpful to compare like this  :-)

I think the size compared to the competition is important.

I think I read in the book of the bitch that Giant Schnauzer pups seem compared to adults and pups in similar size breeds.

It gives 10 - 12oz a average for my breed, and in practise my pups range from 9 - 14oz most often, with recent litters seeming to be around 14 - 16oz, but have had the odd smaller pups, with the 6oz being smallest