Hi

What am i looking for when i check the pedegree of my girl and potential studs.  I have studied mine but don't always know what I'm looking for except inter breeding. which glad to say there is none apart from grandfather seems to appear a few times throughout and keeping in kennel names.  I do have a good breeder behind me who helped me choose a stud before (missed though) but you don't always want to ask these things.   Thanks.

Hi, it's not so much the names in the pedigree but the actual dogs. This is where a mentor who has been in the breed for some time comes in handy. They will know the dogs, their parents, siblings and any other offspring (hopefully ;-) ) Knowing that certain dogs have produced problems is vital. It also helps if the dogs in the pedigrees have produced consistantly good examples.

Don't be afraid to ask questions of people in the breed. They are in the know, and most will try to be helpful. Though you will always get the kennel blind, those who can't see any wrong in their own but see all faults in anyones elses dogs ;-)

I have studied mine but don't always know what I'm looking for except inter breeding.

INTERbreeding means dogs of different breeds mated together, INbreeding means close relatives mated. You certainly don't want to worry about inbreeding in a pedigree as long as you  don't continue it too closely (in fact almost the opposite, I'd worry if all dogs in a pedigree were totally unrelated -that does NOT sound like a good pedigree to me), but yes as said you can't get anything out of a pedigree unless you have actual details of the dogs in it, and preferably knew them yourself or know somebody who did. The only way to find out what temperament they had, what health, what strengths and weaknesses etc.

Also a written pedigree can be more useful the more information it contains.  This is why many breeders prefer to print their own as you can include Hip scores, colour, as well as titles etc.

~After that you need to stud the actual dogs.

A good place to start is to buy the Breed club year books for generations back.  I started with 10 years then 20 and any more I could get.

In these breeders will review their kennel successes and advertise studs etc, so you can at least get to see photos of the dogs in the pedigrees and also see those for their offspring.

Of course a photo is just a starting point and shows you what they looked like.

After that you have to be tactful, you have the photos, know what the visual type was and what was produced, hopefully you have the Hip scores etc, so that has already fleshed things out for you.

After that any particular dogs, especially influential ones(those who have appeared more often in the pedigree and that of other dogs), you need to find people than knew the dogs themselves,a nd preferably meet them yourself (usually possible for the first few generations).

We have been looking at studs recently too and the first thing I did was ask everybody I could get my hands on esp judges what they thought was wrong with our bitch then found males that would correct the faults.

I then traced both our bitch and all the diff studs I was looking at the back as far as a could then got all breed handbooks and photocopied the photos of the dogs and made a HUGE pictorial pedigree on a wall as im more of a visual person. By doing this I got to see traits that were passed down through the lines, which made it much easier to see rather than have it in note form. Iv also went to see most of the dogs that were in the uk in person that appeared in the peds they looked different in person, thats another thing I would say do go see as many of the living ansestors as poss. Then see pups that have a similar cross, so that you don't get a nasty surprise later down the road.

Oh and don't get lulled by how titled dogs are I believe health tests and temp are much more important

I have studied mine but don't always know what I'm looking for
Pedigrees are only a collection of names unless you have actually seen and know the dogs on a pedigree. 
I can never understand people who say it'll be a good match because there are no similar dogs on the pedigrees.  This fact doesn't make it a good pedigree or a good match.  Different dogs, although carrying different genes, can still carry the same faults so in fact out crossing can be even more precarious than line breeding if you don't know the dogs involved.
Taking time to look at the actual dogs with knowledgable eyes is far more important than looking at them on paper............

Well done Triona that is the proper way to do it.

I think your post should go in the breeding section on how to research stud dogs and your bitches bloodlines.

Sharing your research and getting input (often conflicting but useful nevertheless) from others more knowledgeable in your breed to supplement what you have learnt.

This process one could say is the most important and fascinating part of breeding, then seeing if the results pan out to your expectations, and if not more research to reveal where the unexpected traits (good or bad) came from, so you have more in your knowledge store for next time.

Hi

Thanks for the replies, they were most helpful.  My girs pedigree is a good line bred one and by a good established breeder (thank god).  I wasn't sure what to look for in mine or anyone elses so find this helpful.  i have managed to see some ancestors and as its said don't always go on the champ, i've seen many a bad dog go through.  One thing that has especially helped is looking at faults, there is a stud, champ of course, but doesn't produce very good pups, only some.  Their eyes are wrong, on the pups, but i haven't looked at pups full ped, but they have other good traits, a good coat ect.  They do have similar pedigree lines, that's why i was refering to the name similarities and wondering how i might know if mine was a better match.

I want to know what i'm doing rather than rely in someone else all the time and try my breeding (eventually) and not an extention of the breeder.

what is the outcrossing, how far out crossed are they and how often would that happen.

Sorry to sound so stupid bit can't think of better ways to word things at the mo.

I want to know what i'm doing rather than rely in someone else all the time and try my breeding (eventually) and not an extention of the breeder.

Well said.  Take your time to look and learn.  And don't forget that just looking at photos is not good enough.  A clever photographer (or owner!) can easily conceal a dog's faults and only present the best bits! :(

Out crossing is producing a pedigree with no similar relatives, which novices and a few experienced breeders think is to be recommended, and it may well be IF you really know all the dogs concerned for the reasons that I posted before.

>I want to know what i'm doing rather than rely in someone else all the time and try my breeding (eventually) and not an extention of the breeder.

This comes with experience ;-) Start off by asking questions and see if you agree with the answers. If not, why not?

My first show dog was fantastic in my eyes. It was only by going to shows and looking at the other dogs that I saw what they saw. She was ok, but not top quality. I didn't breed from her in the end, mainly as I was breeding for working ability, not looks. She wasn't the best worker, not like her younger sister, who was bred on from. If I bred her now I would look at her differently.