if a puppy wins a cc does it count in the three needed to make a champoion if one of the three is givin after it's fisrt birthday

Yes

It counts wether it is 6 months or older, so a dog can win 3 before it is 12 months old & it would still be a Show Champion. Age would be irrelevant.

> so a dog can win 3 before it is 12 months old & it would still be a Show Champion

Incorrect I'm afraid - a dog could win 20 before 12 months old and still not be a champion until it got a CC after it's first birthday!

But yes, any CCs given before 12 months do count towards the three.

M.

i thought so, many thanks.

A puppy can win 3 cc's as a puppy, but would need to win one more cc to make it a champion after its 1st birthday

Age is relavant, you need to win a further CC after the dogs 1st birthday, i know in some breeds they are called 'babychamps'

Ok, I was wrong, will keep my mouth shut next time

Don't worry - it's a real pitfall all these rules and regs, eh! :-)

This is why I love the AKC. 15 points with at least two 3 pt majors regardless of age and you're a champion. Sounds easy no? it's actually extremely hard as your breed has to have a certain number of entries to qualify as a major. So you could potentially never find those majors unless you go to breed specialty shows. I had that issue with my Ibizan hound bitch back when I was showing her.

I had always wondered this.

Well it is similar here in that the Kennel club ration the CC's to ensure a chance of a representative and strong entry for the breed.

Also you have to beat the existing champions, so not many dogs ever gain their title.

In the US it almost seems a title is a pre requisite for being good enough to be bred from.

If only champions were bred from here there would be no gene pool.

Geography is the main issue I expect as I don't expect the AKC could do that in USA without being totally unfair to some people re travelling distances.  Sad thing is that in USA a breeder will not meet most of the shown breed in a seasons exhibiting like you would expect to see in the UK.  This makes showing much more of an efficient a breeders tool in the UK than it can be in the US.

Maybe this is why wins in the breed ring and not groups and BIS wins are what matter here, as the rest is just icing on the cake/a bit of fun.  If you only had a few of yoru breed at any show then you would want to go higher.

I do think winning a CC should mean your the best of your sex that day, not just best of non title holders.

>I do think winning a CC should mean your the best of your sex that day, not just best of non title holders.

Agree totally. What's the point of winning something where the best have been excluded from competing?