on reading a few new posts on here i thought it might be a good idea for the more experienced breeders to write how much it costs them to raise a litter, in best and worst case scenarios for their breed, to try and educate those new to breeding. things to consider:
stud fee
car fuel for travelling to stud
whelping box
whelping kit + emergency stuff such as dopram v, nutridrops etc
worming
feed for extra mouths
vaccinations and microchipping (if you do this)
vet bed
heat pad(s)
heating bills
time off work
standard vet bills
emergency vet bills (C sections etc)
additional vet bills (progesterone testing etc),

im sure you will think of additional things to add

I think it depends on the size of the breed and price of studs as in some breeds a CH stud can be £500 and in others £1000. In ours large breed from scratch............ £2000- £2500 without emergency opp's, depends on what people feed to as that can be very expensive.

Personally I would say it's impossible to answer this post because a. money shouldn't come into your decision and b. how on earth do you put a cost on the years of travelling the country showing, the evenings spent poring over old stud books, weekend seminars discussing conformation and movement etc all before you should contemplate breeding :-)

> Personally I would say it's impossible to answer this post because a. money shouldn't come into your decision and b. how on earth do you put a cost on the years of travelling the country showing, the evenings spent poring over old stud books, weekend seminars discussing conformation and movement etc all before you should contemplate breeding

Hear, hear!

If I sat down and worked out average day to day costs for the 5 Large Munsterlanders I have owned since 1987 and what 3 litters has 'bought in' I would truly depress myself.  And don't get me started on the 'waste of space' cats too!  LOL!

sorry i dont think i worded it correctly... what i meant was. can we explain to new comers to breeding that it is rare to make money, and use examples of a numerical reason eg. all equipment for a BC litter came to about £2000 including stud fee, worming, normal vet stuff, health testing etc, litter sold for £1600 (4x £400) so a loss made of £400. plus time off work
i think its important for new breeders to let them selves in for financially, seen a lot of posts about new breeders on here and i really dont think they are aware of the cost

How long is a piece of string?

My bitches often only have 2 or 3 pups, my health testing is extremely expensive and I often dont sell any of the litter, prefering to give them to friends.

I would say that I spend out ten times more than I get back financially so very much a 'rich mans' hobby.

Oh god I forgot about health tests humm that makes it even more expensive, well I think i can safely say you will make a loss

Yep Health tests around £500, and then some are annual.

KC registering

Time spent looking up pedigrees going back 10+ generations; phone calls, discussing potential studs - pros and cons;  travelling to shows to see potential studs;   travelling possibly 200+  miles to stud dog's home, costs involved staying over night whilst mating takes place;  costs involved in looking after other dogs at home whilst away mating bitch;   costs of scanning;  phone calls to potential owners of puppies;  phone calls to friends living close to potential puppy owners, asking them to check out ppos; costs of wormer (for mum & pups);  costs of disinfectant (parvovirocide) whilst puppies are small;  costs of jumbo rolls of kitchen paper for cleaning up puppy poo & piddle;  costs of laundering vet beds (3 x daily);  additional heating costs; costs of take-away meals because too exhausted to cook for family;  extra tea/coffee biccies for ppos coming to view pups;  costs of printing pedigrees/puppy information packs;  costs of telephone calls to new puppy owners, checking up on puppies...........

  

this is the basic amounts I can remember off thr top of my head for my current litter I hopefully have on the way.... Awaiting a scan to confirm. 

Hips: £90
DNA testing:  £98
Eyes: £40
stud fee: £600
car fuel for travelling to stud: £90
hotel over night with dog waiver: £48
whelping box: built to order £75
whelping kit: £40
worming: £30+
feed for extra mouths for 6 weeks: £34 x3
vaccinations and microchipping: £64 per puppy
dewclaw removal:  £10 a puppy
vet bed: £120 for a 10m roll
heating bills: unknown
time off work: reduced hours meaning £100 less a week
standard vet bills: £28 a visit
ultrasound: £35

erm. I think I best hide this post from my husband 

When i got my first bitch, from which we had planned to have a litter from, her breeder.Who i had also had my other 3 dogs from over the past 12 years told me to make sure i had £1000 in the bank saved up to cover cost that could arrise, this i think was very good advise.

> told me to make sure i had £1000 in the bank saved up to cover cost that could arrise, this i think was very good advise.

Too true!  I recently had an enquiry to use one of my boys.  Breed normally has 1-3 pups.  At the most expensive end of the scale I have paid £1,086 for a C-section.  I asked the bitch owners if they could cover this, should their bitch need a section. 

They have decided aginst breeding!  :-)

I know it sounds a bit mean, and I don't intend to - but I'm amazed how much washing powder I get through for vetbed alone!

i have taken out the kennel club breeders insurance This covers c sections and all pups up to 4 weeks And any other problems she might have unlike other pet insurance i have to pay 10 per cent of the vet bills plus excess but i feel  reassurred that any problems my girl and pups will be treated with out worry of the cost I have not found any other insurance that covers pregnancy  or pups x

I wouldnt even like to think of the cost of raising a litter, we took our girl to Germany , expenses were £1,500, with travel, hotel,stud fee etc, as long as i get a nice healthy litter and my girl is ok i dont care what it costed, thats before the healh tests, welping box etc, caring breeders dont usually make a proffit usually a loss, we are hoping to keep maybe 2 off the litter.

As far as I can remember the Breeders Insurances are very expensive, you need to Insure for a minimum length of time etc. 

Remember Insurance is designed to make the Insurance company money.

I would advise reading the small print with a magnifying glass, but then I am a cynical old thing ;)

Yes thought it would be very expensive.

Tanya a friend of mine kept a detailed account for me as I was fed up with people talking about breeding for money!! I have no doubt second time round it would be slightly cheaper as a lot of the stuff you would already have and I could probably have cut corners but I didnt want to.
At the last count I'm sure I was at £4500.  I tried twice, both times over 5 hour journeys and two nights stay each time. 
I never added extra heating to that or the fact my husband took 3 weeks holidays to help out, or redecorating a spare room so the whelping box could go in what was my sons downstairs bedroom so the costs could go on and on.  I had 7 pups, kept one and gave one to a friend for free which will remain in joint names, I didnt charge what some people charge for pups as I didnt see it as a money making scheme.  I think the last time I spoke to my friend she worked out it had in fact cost me almost the price of a pup :-)
Still looking back it was an experience I wouldnt have missed but not a cheap one!!!
If you want to see my list I could get it but it's VERY long lol.

I am raising a litter at the moment, it does cost alot if you do it right, but more than the money it is your time, me and my husband don't stop if we are not cleaning up poo relaying newspaper, making up a feed, teaching the slower ones to eat, playing with the pups, getting them used to all noises, clearing up spilled water bowls, putting puppy packs together, washing vet bedding and towels, answering questions, dealing with time wasters and daydreamers! I'm sure i have missed a ton of things!!

A friend, single who is self employed bred her first litter in March 2009, bearing in mind most of her work is outdoors (Landscaping, gardening the like so most work is in the Spring and Summer).

She lived and breathed those puppies for 10 weeks plus two weeks before whelping, so that was 3 months without a wage living on her savings to add to the litter rearing costs.

What's the 3 months take home Minimum wage these days?

Fortunately we were able to help her out with some of the equipment, but it cost her a lot, with 5 puppies sold.

i am paying £38 amonth and my little girl is a giant breed not any more than i paid before The only diffrence is i have to pay 10% of vet bills
And this covers fertility checks ect as well Did get it a little wrong with pups its from birth to 1 week and then from 5 weeks to week 12 or when sold
did  ask lots of questions and i was more than happy x :-)

If you go down the AI route it doesnt bear thinking about:

research abroad
phone calls
charges for vets in the Country of origin and when the dog is inseminated,.
semen cost and storage of same
import licence
vet check etc etc etc

Also try taking a bitch abroad, the cost of shipping them as Cargo plus your own flights if outside Europe or too far to drive.

All the things Askara said plus Ive just paid £500 for a c section ( it was £880 16 months a go out of hour) and £102 for KC reg for a litter of 8 and £120 so far on a poorly pup

I think the potential emotional "cost" deserves a mention in this thread too.

In my limited experience, whilst breeding can be rewarding (emotionally), it is also very, very stressful and can be heartbreaking.

I know of someone who recently decided to mate their bitch (not a clue about breeding but went ahead anyway), ended up 5 pups born by emergency c-section,only ONE survived and they very nearly lost the bitch (a much loved pet).

yes as as Cavlover says the emotional side of breeding too, the heartbreak you go through losing a puppy, watching it gasping for breath is awful, you never forget it.

As this thread is aimed towards making a new, inexperienced breeder stop and think before going ahead and letting their bitch "have just one litter before she is spayed" or because they need the money here is what can happen even if your outgoings are minimal (as some people will not bother with tests/overseas or registration).

I own my bitch and stud so no cost involved there.
Tests were already done so don't count the cost of them.

I spent 6 intensive months with my bitch on a very strict feeding and fitness regime and she was in absolute peak fitness and health at time of mating. This bitch could come out with me galloping on my horse and run up and down the moorland for 5 hours and hardly have a raised heart rate and not bat an eyelid.

The main costs associated with her litter were....
Emergency C-Section at midnight....£900
5 days in intensive care following an infectionand follow-on medication....£500
9 large tubs of Lactol (bitches milk didn't come through enough to sustain pups until 4 weeks).... £200

TOTAL FOR BASICS......£1600  (you need this set aside for an emergency BEFORE mating)

This doesn't include....
2 loads of washing and drying per day
5 weeks sleeping on the sofa
Everything else being neglected (chores/husband/social life) as by the time you finish feeding the pups, clean up, disinfect and sort washing out its time to start feeding again!!!!
Puppy food for weaning and rearing pups

Heartbreak at losing 2 pups (one during section and one at 4 days old).

(set aside at least another £300 for everything else that may crop up)

It's not easy reading is it?

excellent post, thats just what i meant! :-)

it isnt easy reading, but oh so true,

I'm not even going to attempt to calculate costs, but my latest litter went like this:
Bitch mated (stud fee, travel to stud dog who lived at the opposite end of the country), cost of whelping box and puppy pen (as I had not had a litter of this size dog before), new vet beds, extra food during pregnancy, vet checks and ultrasound scan (non-vet). Bitch had two dead pups, vet care and antibiotics added afterwards.

Next time, same travel to stud dog (but the owner was VERY kind in giving me a free repeat mating which she did not HAVE to do as the first mating DID produce pups albeit dead), two lots of herpes vaccinations, three lots of antibiotics, two ultrasound scans (non-vet), extra food again.

Three pups born out of which two were dead. So I have one puppy that I'm keeping. (Wrong sex AND wrong colour to what I wanted, but I wasn't going to give him up for anything!) Granted it hasn't cost too much to feed ONE pup, worm one pup, register one pup,  microchip one pup etc, but all in all it still ended up far, far more expensive than if I had gone out to buy a puppy -and the stress would have been minimal, now the stress was unbelievable, both times. Oh and not forgetting the pup was born during the coldest part of the year which meant heating had to be on 24/7 as well as his heated pad, that cost us an extra £3 just during the night in electricity costs!

My heating has been on non stop here too! We are getting through more food than i ever thought possible!

Oh to add to this as i forgot this bit..

On my last litter we had extra expensives as one puppy broke a foreleg and required £200 of x-rays and £100 of pain killers and meds for her.

I don't often read the breeding section [never going to do it] but sometimes find useful info on bitch issues [esp. seasons] and other 'stuff'.
This is a great post full of useful info on the costs [time, money energy and emotion]  involved in breeding dogs - my only worry is that it could put off the caring potential breeders who would likely carry out all these things, and those who don't [care] and just do it for the money won't even be on here never mind take all these things into consideration first!  I certainly find it scary to think about what you breeders have to do.
On the other hand, at least those who are thinking seriously about breeding will be able togo into it with theri eyes wide open.  Also, those of us not/never have been involved in breeding could pass on this really useful, and well-informed information to others.

im lucky in the fact i dont need to take time off work as the breeding duties are shared between myself and my mother who breeds as well. the only down side is im on night watch whcih means there is a good 2 weeks at work where i am a zombie. breeding is expensive there really isnt any way to make money. if you breed more expensive to buy breeds you find that there is even more expenses. my dogs have "their" bank account and my last litter of two i sold for £1600, but then take off the c section, emergency vet, injections, microchip, food etc their balance atm is around £100, but then i started off with 3k when i started breeding in that account.

Our heating is on 24/7 now too for our litter, we have only just pasi a £500 gas bill, God knows why our bills are so expensive, apart from the aga the heating is not usually on, we light a coal fire at night and the house is not a cold house, speaking of expensive litters this is the 2nd time we have mated our female in Germany £1400, 2 stud fees, 1st time she missed, 2nd time we went to another dog, fuel, hotels etc, over the moon our girl conceived this time, had 4 puppies Wednesday night, 2 males 2 females, we get a choice of a female to keep so happy, plus thinking of keepig a male, today the puppy doesnt look right so booked to see the vet, 1 hour later puppy starts fading, now she has died, am so gutted, mother knew she wernt right as she kept licking her and whimpering, this started last night, now mum is settled again, i just hope the others all stay healthy now, this is her 1st litter and she is 4 years old now, jsut want a puppy to keep off her and hopefully show, the mother is a top show female and our pride and joy, on the other hand we are so relieved our girl is fine and there were no complications in the whelping, like Pocopearl says there is no proffit in breeding, we only mate our females when we want to keep a puppy,

Well we have had 4 litters over last 7 years. Kept a pup from each, never lost one (thank god) never had a c-section. We have 24 puppies out in the world that we are responsible for, for the rest of their lives. So we have quit the breeding while we are ahead.
By ahead I mean all pups in great homes etc not ahead in money stakes and feel 24 babies is enough, out of 3 girls.If you breed a litter ok pups are sold but YOU are responsible for them for life.

Annastasia i am so sorry you lost one of your  pups but i am so glad that your girl and the other 3 are all healthy x

Sorry to hear about the still borns, very sad.
Hope you haven't spoiled the live one.

so sorry you lost one, but congratulations on the 3 others xx

> Hope you haven't spoiled the live one.
>

Why?

I was also wondering what that question meant Jean.

i took it as spoilt them rotten? ie because you are hoping to keep her?

Yes she will be spoiled ha ha! but nicely not unruly lol,

The trouble is..... It is a license to print money... Most breeders wont have half the stuff listed.  Most breeders wont travel for stud fee's (they prob already have there own stud), they wont KC reg, neither will they scour pedigree's for correct lines... They wont purchase whelping boxes, nor buy vet bed.... They wont consider all the vet fee's concerned. as it prob wont happen to them.... Some will listen, however... There wouldn't be numerous websites advertising 100's to 1000's of puppies, majority not KC reg, there wouldn't be puppy farms etc etc... If people stopped and considered their options and cost's.... Unfortunately, people only see the monetary value once puppies sold.

If it doesn't pay, then why are there so many people doing it?  I wish this site could change that...... however i have just been on one of these sites looking for a new puppy and it makes me want to cry the standards of some of the pup's....

> If it doesn't pay, then why are there so many people doing it? 

Doen properly it cannot pay, especially wehn you factor in keepigna nd developing yoru bloodlines and provign their worht, then any perceived excess income on litters is eaten up several times over, at best offsetting a breeders ongoing investment and maintenance costs.

Some who try to do it right never do it again as they are well out of pocket financially and emotionally.

Sadly there are many that can make it pay by not doing things properly and cutting corners at the dogs expense, and ultimately at the new owners too, and of course once they have the new owners money the pups are forgotten if they come unstuck then rescue picks up the pieces.

These last cash in on the price that good breeders need to , thus taking in the dog ignorant public, who mostly once they have the pup love it warts and all.

We certainly wont make a penny on this litter of 3, im happy this way though, wanted quality from this litter not quantity, these puppies have cost us over £1000 each to conceive, im so excited as keeping a male and a female hopefully, the other little chap will go with our partner, so not 1 penny will come to us, but we got the litter we have dreamed of for years. As has been said if done right you are financially out of pocket. This is a totally new blood line for us so very exciting,

At the end of the year I am plannign on taking my youngest champion girl to the US for mating. 

The cargo charges for ehr aloen will be £1000 or so, and of course ther is oru own flights to pay for (as no way would I send her unaccompanied).  We may get a litter if we are lucky. 

Even then we may not get anything to keep if she doesn't have any bitches, or as with our very expensive Finnish trip end up with one that isn't really top show quality, though at least we got new blood to expand our gene pool, always an issue in numerically small breeds.

Ah good luck Barbara, it is a risk especially with a 1st litter, will she conceive will she not? our 1st atempt with our Champion female failed, despite blood tests etc, 12 hour drive to Germany, stud went well i was conviced after 4 weeks she was in whelp, but i was seeing signs that wernt there, was gutted she missed, but we campaigned her , and was over the moon to make her into a champion, our 1st ever, it was fate she missed as this wouldnt have happened, everything for a reason eh? Hope you get what you wish for you deserve it, x