We are in the middle of a training programme from a one to one session with a trainer to try and cure separation anxiety in our 8 month tibetan terrier.
Briefly we are:
feeding her only from a kong or treat ball
shutting her in the kitchen whilst eating
pretending to be going out by getting ready and then not going.
Not going into her if she is barking but waiting for a quiet spell.

Bessie will eat in the kitchen on her own but as soon as she is finished the barking starts.
This is after two months of trying and she also still cottons on to the cue of putting of coats on etc. although I have been trying to do it several times a day. 
In short I don't think this is working at all , she seems to get very stressed at any form of confinement. 
I am feeling at the end of my tether with her and don't even know if I should keep the next training appointment. 
Opinions please as to what we should do next

What is her exercise routine? along with this method

Louise

Hiya,

I do feel for you as I know how draining it can be to have a dog that can't be left alone without becoming distressed.  Has the trainer changed the programme at all in the two months as you would be hoping to see some progress in that time - though SA can take a long time to deal with properly?

Has she suggested trying anything like DAP or zylkene.  I'm also curious is all her meals being fed from the kong or treat ball and what is the thought process behind that?  When you shut her in the kitchen is that behind a closed door or behind a baby gate?  At the moment how long is she left on her own for - so how long is she left barking for at a time, ie do you have to go to work, have regular commitments that means she is left on her own.

Ideally when you are working with SA you need to work slowly enough that the dog isn't being left to get into a state so that you don't need to wait for a gap in barking to go back into them.  Clearly if they are getting into a state and this is because they are anxious about being alone (rather than attention seeking) then they are just being proved right, that it feels horrible to be alone and they are less likely to be able to process the information you give them, ie people come back when I'm quiet, because stressed dogs don't learn well.

What I would be doing is popping her in an area that can have a baby gate across it, give her something really high value like a kong stuffed really well with something that she loves and just sitting the other side of the baby gate and reading a book or something so that you aren't interacting with her but she knows you are there.  Then open the gate before she gets stressed and just carry on doing your own thing.

I would then gradually increase the time and the distance of you away from the door, but not waiting till she gets to the point where she's barking, return to her before she gets stressed.  What you need to do is get her to realise that being on her own isn't that scarey and that needs to be done very gradually and without her feeling stressed everyday.  I

would also make sure that she has somewhere that she is used to settling down that is really comfy and snuggly in the kitchen, teach settleing as a sperate exercise if needs be so that when the time comes she has built a good association with settling down on a particular place.

I would also make sure she has background noise on in the kitchen, even when you are doing the exercises right from the beginning so that she has that familiar noise.

Answering the 1st reply first she has about three quarters of an our walk each morning.  We were supposed to be adding an afternoon walk but due to the recent bad weather this has never really happened.

Karen thanks for your valuable input I think I will try sitting the other side of the baby gate for a while and see how that goes.
We were supposed to see the trainer again after 1 month but she got invited to a training seminar in India with John Rogerson so had to postpone until early Februray.

Yes she suggested getting something with either valarium or scullcap in  which we did and are giving her.
The idea of the kongs was to make her work for her food and give her added interest.

We started with the baby gate and then at her suggestion tried it with the door shut.   It takes her approx. 10 minutes to finish her food and then she immediately starts barking. I can go in and out during that time without her really noticing or reacting.  I don't work so she really hasn't been left on her own that much, and when she has she has barked the whole time we are away.  So really we stopped doing that because of not wanting to irritate the neighbours.  We always leave the tv or radio on when she is alone.  I also have a cd of music to calm dogs and again as suggested by the trainer a recording of our voices but none of those have really helped.

 

What does she do when you go upstairs, or to the toilet/bathroom?  Are there any circumstances in which you can leave her, or close doors, without her getting anxious?

I only ask as a friend of mine had issues with her dog but only when she, the owner, left through either of the exit doors.  One of the things she was advised to do was to close every single door behind her.  Sometimes this meant the dog was in the room with her, and other times it was left on the other side of the closed door.  She would do a sort of circuit through the downstairs rooms every hour or so never staying put in one room for more than a minute or two, sometimes just seconds.  She would also exit via the back door and immediately walk round to come in the front.  She said her dog soon got bored with following;  he also didn't get distressed because she was never gone long.  It took some considerable time but her dog is fine now.  I know she and her husband didn't leave the house at the same time for a month!!

Do try and increase the exercise if you can or add some mental stimulation sessions.  It's much easier for a relaxed, tired, and sleepy dog to ignore your absence.  I'm at home most days but I still put both my dogs to bed for a while after each walk.  Not because I have to, as I'm usually here, but because when I do need to go out I always structure it to happen after a walk.  This way they've no real idea whether I'm home or not.  Good luck

I would also incorporate  an obedience training class if you dont already attend one . The hour in a training class using mental and physical stimulation can also give confidence and tire a dog out physically.
I also think if you consentrate too much on her SA it can overtake anything else going  on and spoil the relationship you are building, sometimes you do have to ignore some of the behaviour or your  pup will pick up on your own anxiety of the situation.

Dont give up I am sure there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Hi again,

I'm also wandering if this really is true SA and not more about her seeking your attention because she just never got used to spending time alone and she found out early on that barking worked to get you back.  You understandably didn't want to upset the neighbours so when she barked you went back into her and then didn't leave her because of she has just learnt that it is an effective strategy.  Then got more used to not spending time on her own so it became a bigger deal

What other anxious behaviours does she display when you leave her - does she pace, pant, toilet, try and escape, is she destructive at all or is it just more of a barking frenzy?

It's just that dogs with real SA tend not to be able to be kept occupied with food for ten minutes while they are alone and then start worrying about it - they tend to be too stressed to eat, unless of course that has been worked up to very gradually?  I have a few other suggestions but am in a late dash now so will reply again later.  I'm not saying she isn't getting stressed by getting herself into a pickle by not being able to get what she wants but just doesn't sund for sure like it's all about SA.

Thanks dogs a babe that is another very good tip and I will try that .  If she is sleepy and I go out of the room and close the door she doesn't react much.  But that isn't always the case like just a while ago she started barking when I left her to go to the loo.    We are in the same situation as your friends, we either go out separately or take her with us. 

I hope so!  You are so right about it taking over your life - it has

You know you could be right because what we have noticed on the occasions we have had to go out and leave her on our return she really doesn't seem to be that upset even though when running the tape back she has barked and howled the full time we have been out.  It's more like a petulant child protesting because they can't have their own way. From what we can gather from the tape recording she has gone upstairs and come back down again and wanders about barking.  She has never been destructive or dirty  whilst we are out just barks and howls.  The trainer advised getting her used to being in one place because they do tend to go on the wander to see if they can find us. Look forward to your suggestions and thanks for taking the time to reply

> From what we can gather from the tape recording she has gone upstairs and come back down again and wanders about barking.

> The trainer advised getting her used to being in one place because they do tend to go on the wander to see if they can find us.

Sound advice.  Looking after the whole house can be stressful for some dogs, they are constantly on alert and don't feel able to settle when 'left in charge'.  Choose a room for her to eat and sleep in, make sure she has a bed she likes and start getting her used to returning to that spot periodically throughout the day, even if it means you go with her. 

It might be worth looking at advice appropriate to crate training puppies.  You may not be using one, but the process of confinement for short periods is the same - although in your case you will be using a whole room!

Where does she sleep at night?

Hi,

I would still advise on working through this slowly.  Pop the baby gate up again and get her used to not being able to follow you everywhere.  Do set her up to succeed so that she isn't practising barking by working in small steps and making spending time on her own fun.  I would also suggest that you do at least a couple of walks if not three a day with her, even if you do one that is 40 mins in the morning and another couple that are 20 mins or so.  She's a young energetic breed and needs physical and mental stimulation and getting her out and about more often will help with that as she'll be taking in different sights, sounds and smells.

I would also spend a few fairly short sessions a day doing some training with her - to tire her out mentally, maybe three lots of 5/10 mins.  I would also include things like some 'find it's' and some scent work which can be really tiring for dogs.  Instead of using all her meals in the kongs scatter some of her meals in the garden for her to sniff out and find, which again gets her to use her nose and is tiring.  Strengthen her wait/stay by saking her to wait and going and hiding (in an easy place to start to give her the idea of the game) a smelly treat or even her kibble for her in the same room and then releasing her to 'find it', then gradually build up to the next room and then other places in the house and in harder places.

I would also when you start increasing her time alone leave her with plenty to keep her occupied.  Use a frozen kong which takes longer to work through, you can put things like natural yogurt mixed with some kibble and pop it in the freezer.  I also make little activity boxes for one of my girls that has had worries about being left alone.  A cardboard box, filled with things like bits of paper scrunched up with a piece of two of kibble inside, a plastic milk bottle with a few bits of kibble or a couple of bits of chicken inside (always make sure they are ok with these by supervising first).  The cardboard roll from kitchen roll with a chew inside and then folded over, basically lots of bits like this all put in the cardboard box and it keeps her entertained for a good 30/40 mins with a kong as well and by that time she is tired out and settles much more easily.  Again this is something I've worked up to slowly but it has really helped her, I started off by using these while she was in a room and couldnt get to me but could see me through the baby gate and going in and out carrying on with doing things but not really intereacting with her.

Now I can leave her for a couple of hours each morning and she knows the routine so well and actually gets excited about her little activities that I leave for her which I try and vary and she settles really well.  She did have SA problems, originally when this started she would toilet as soon as I left her she got into such a panic and wouldn't bother with food and started being pretty frantic and howling and trying to get to me as soon as I left the room, but now three months on she has a little look as I go and then puts her head down to get on with the treasures I have left for her :-)

Hope this makes sense and is of some help.

I too was also going to ask how she was diagnosed with SA? what made the behaviourist think that it was this?
I presume she's learnt from John Rogerson, who does have a good reputation. However, it's important that the "diagnosis" is correct from the outset, and that any learning history is taken into account (ie as Karenclynes I think it was said, has she learnt to bark to get you to respond? She may not have - only asking in case this may have occurred, but the b. should have gone over this with you in fairly minute detail). It's a bit like putting  a jigsaw puzzle together sometimes! :)

Sounds as if the advice given was pretty standard (which may be good) but sometimes it needs "tweaking" to work. Also, although you are clearly very dedicated to following the advice, it's very important everything you are told is followed to the letter or some aspect of the programme may fall down. However it's hard to continue when there are other problems...Was any advice given, for example, about what to do when she's finished her kong and starts to bark?

All these things need to be addressed. I think Karenclynes actually addresses some of these queries pretty well! I would also say it is always worth getting back in touch with professionals because they may well be able to tweak things (and indeed, this one has suggested a second meeting, I'd say definitely go with that) and you can tell her how you've been getting on and what has or hasn't worked.

Finally, silly question, but are you actually going out at all at the moment? it's just that - when dealing with this, you can't really leave the dog at all, unless with a relative, friend, dog walker/sitter etc, because if you do (and indeed, if it is SA) all the good work will be undone. The first stages are usually the worst - once you can leave her for about half an hour, you can usually progress more quickly :)

Also ensure the neighbours don't bang on the fence/wall and scare her, that sort of thing - as noises, fears etc can cause a dog to not want to be left.

Lindsay
x

This advice is invaluable thanks so much in answer to the questions put - dogsababe she sleeps in her own bed in our room but also goes on the landing.

Karenclynes - some more really good suggestions thanks so much will be putting them into practice, will let you know if and when we ever succeed!

Lindsay, I'm trying to remember the initial consultation which is all a bit blurred now I remember she asked a lot of questions about how many pups were in the litter and what sexes they were, where the dog slept, feeding regime etc.  
The report we got says not to go into her whilst she is barking, feeding only from kongs and treat balls. Building up the time we are away from her.We were also sent a number of articles on SA
No we never leave her in on her own - we did when she was younger a few times but gave up once we realised however long we were away she would bark for all of that time.  So now either we go out separately or take her with us. She hates me going out more than my oh and if she knows I'm going is glued to my side.  I have overcome this by quietly getting everything I need put in the hall and just shutting the kitchen door behind me and getting ready out there.She mostly doesn't notice at all doing it that way.     Our neighbours are very quiet people, hardly ever hear them which makes me worry even more about the barking but we have explained we are training and that there will be times when she barks and they have said not to worry.
I just wish I could see the tiniest glimmer of evidence that something is improving,to give my confidence a bit of a boost -  it's pretty soul destroying to keep on trying and nothing to be changing.  But maybe we are falling down on some aspect of it, wihout realising.. 
I will keep the next appointment which is only a week away and  carry on incorporating the excellent ideas given here.
Thanks
daph x

Meant to ask, if it isn't SA and more reactive response to signals we have given her would the training to rectify this be different to that for SA?
daph

Its difficult having not seen her, But i tend to agree with the others that it is not SA, but more just she objects to being left.

Personally id up the "training" outside, do alot more with her away from the house , training classes , Training walks etc etc, so she learns that they house is the place where she calms down & chills out.

Id teach her a Down Stay & a "settle".

There should be a safe quiet place where she will be on her own when you go out, so she learns to be quiet there & when she goes there that you "will" be back, this should be a different place as to where she spends time with you.-you would obvisley need to introduce that slowley & carefully.
Id teach her "going out now" that means she will stay in her place & you will be back.

Good Luck

I was having the same problem did all the things you have done in the end I bought a abistop anti-bark collar and she has now stopped barking it took about 48 hours, which I think was very quick, not all dogs are the same so the the time scale could be different.I don't know what your feeling are on this but it worked for me.
Hope this is of some help

The report we got says not to go into her whilst she is barking,

One fairly crucial bit of advice I feel here is to help the dog to realise what you do want.
Often dogs bark, but are left to bark on and on because emotionally they aren't satisfied or are experiencing anxiety.
Best thing to do can sometimes be to firstly not let the dog bark and get anxious (stress levels will go up and learning will be hard).
If there is any barking, wait for a lull in the noise - even if it's a few seconds - then say "yes! good dog" and go in and praise/release/give attention. This is what you do with puppies, to teach that what gets attention and company is not barking, but the "not barking". Gradually the time can be extended for longer in that they will realise they need to be quiet before you will let them out, so they will start to experiment with being quiet and soon learn that is what is the easier thing to do, and what gets desired results.

Slightly off topic, but too often owners are advised to let pups bark and not told how to help the pup learn that being quiet is really productive and best from a learning point of view :)

This may or may not be applicable here, but perhaps discuss with your behaviourist?
Allowing a dog to bark can just be counter productive if the dog cannot learn anything else.

Lindsay
x

Dogs get alot of Satisfatction from Barking.

What does her Backing sound like?
1. Worried Barking
2. Calling you back /attention Barking
3.Im just barking -barking, getting Manic
4. playing Barking
5. alert Barking
6. add you choice in here!

If you can read her "bark" then that wi;ll help on your course of action

I would also try to avoid any length of separation that starts the distress.  As it is winter it will be safe to take her with you when you need to go out in the car.

Always have a couple of old T-shirts that you can wear at night to leave with her so that she has your reassuring smell with her (these can be washed and re impregnated with your smell each day).

The thing with SA is not to go too quickly, beyond what the dog can cope with.

Hmm Michelled the barking I would say is either calling us back/attention and getting manic.  She switches between barking and howling and whining whilst pacing up and down. She knows the down stay but am having trouble getting her to understand settle. I was elated this afternoon I was doing one of my getting ready stints, rattling the keys like mad with coat and shoes on and got no response or as usual a dog glued to my side worried about being left.  She was snuggled up on a chair in the front room and took no notice! 

Lyndsay, I have been trying to teach quiet and she will stop when I tell her and she gets praise for doing it but then will start again a minute later.  I am going to take this up with the trainer as I think her barking is getting worse, she has even started barking at things on the tv especially animals whatever they are.

Brainless:  No we don't leave her on her own, she comes with us if we have to go shopping and my oh or me stands outside the shop .  We've never tried leaving her in the car I think that would just get the same reaction as leaving her in the house.

Chynalou:  I was interested to hear you had success with the anti-bark collar, it's not something I've considered up to now but I will keep it mind if all else fails.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all this help I am getting!
daph xx

Chynalou:  I was interested to hear you had success with the anti-bark collar, it's not something I've considered up to now but I will keep it mind if all else fails.

Please don't go down this route - if it is at all anxiety based (and it's likely to be playing some part) then it is unfair to use an aversive to punish the dog for feeling anxious.  You are much better dealing with the root cause of the problem.  Quick fixes like anti bark collars don't deal with the underlying problem, then deal with the symptom of the problem which is the barking.  If you stop their outlet for the anxiety/lonliness/frustration/boredom etc etc by preventing them barking by punishing it wit the use of a spray collar then you may well end up with another problem in place of the barking!

Not only that some dogs learn to bark through them and dogs know when they are and aren't wearing them so are only 'trained' wiht them on!  There are other ways that are more successful and fairer to the dog than resorting to those kind of collars :-)

Ok Karen promise I won't - I certainly don't want to end up with more problems than I've already got!

> She knows the down stay but am having trouble getting her to understand settle

I think I can help on this one.  I've clicker trained mine to 'settle' as well as many other things; I wait for the action I want then click and reward.  I gradually reduce the click and reward over a period of time as per usual clicker training methods [I'm sure someone else can direct you to a good clicker training link - sorry I can't].  It doesn't really matter that much  whether you use a clicker or sme other indication that you're pleased and will reward a behaviour but I believe 'clicking' can help you get your timing right - you have to be quick ie within 2-3 seconds of the desired behaviour otherwise you could be teaching your dog to lick themselves or somesuch LOL. 
What I feel is the major influencing factor in this reward/positive training method is that you wait for a behaviour to happen and then reward it; so when yuor dog is 'settled',  you immediately click and reward, then gradually build up to to 'click, reward, say the command/give hand signal' and then even more gradually reduce the clicks and/or rewards.  This is just as others have said about waiting for your dog to be quiet, even if only for a few seconds, and then reward to help them understand what it is you want.