Hi everyone

What are people's thoughts on using a bitch for breeding who came from an accidental Father to Daughter mating. Father and daughter being both merles.

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In regards to merles i know that its very risky to breed 2 together.

Is this a breeding your planning or your just wanting an opinion. Father, Daughter matings are bad enough but then you have the merle which is doubley bad.

I would say that it depends on what the breeder knows about the ancestors.  Not a mating to be done by the inexperienced. :(

Why does the person you are asking for want to mate?

Personally, I wouldn't do it - even had it been a deliberate father/daughter mating, I would want to know the whys and wherefores behind such a decision - and if it were an accidental mating, then I would be asking why the pregnancy had been allowed to progress.  

Oh gosh no - it's not a breeding I am planning - I am not a breeder!

And nor is it anyone I am asking for.

I was interested to understand if breeding from an off-spring from such a mating was likely to lead to any difficulties.

Merle to merle is not good. I'm trying to scratch my brain here...doesn't it involve the risk of deafness??

It isnt an easy question to answer as alot of indepth knowledge would be needed on the particular pedigree concerned and then the bitch herself would also need to be free of all the health problems that could have been introduced with the merle to merle mating as well as any other of the health issues that the breed can suffer from. So on the whole not a mating that should be undertaken lighty if at all.

I'm sure that the link here has been given before ... but it does state the problems with merle to merle breeding (sorry, I hadn't even twigged that that could be part of the question/problem!)

See here :- http://www.lethalwhites.com/doublemerle.html

The father to daughter merle to merle breeding already took place (accidental).

One of the bitches of the litter is now a breeding bitch.

My initial reaction was one of absolute horror.

However, I wanted to understand more about this in case my horror was entirely misplaced.

I was aware that merle to merle breeding was hugely problematic.

Thanks for the responses :) It may not be as bad as I thought then if the genetics had been studied. That's interesting.

If she is not a Double Merle (on paper that accounts for around 25% of merle x merle bred pups), then it would be no different from breeding with a normal Merle. Provided she has had health checks and is bred to a total outcross, and especially not another merle, then I guess that's not so bad, but I'd not be happy breeding with a father/daughter in the first place. Make sense? :)

Ditto.  If the merle to merle daughter is free from the possible health issues from such a mating, and the line that she is from are healthy and her sire and she do not share the same faults which are more likely to be passed on strongly due to the inbreeding, so their god points might be too, then to a complete outcross not a real problem.

I certainly would not have chosen such a bitch puppy as a potential brood though, but if the pup turned out outstanding with no health issues, then there may be good reason not to waste her genes..

I agree with Brainless in this. I'd not choose this bitch when a pup, as a future breeding prospect.
But if she's without any health issues, and is representing what you are looking for
in your breeding, conformation wise, why not? As long as she's bred to a totally unrelated dog,
there should not be a problem.