I am owned by an Elkhound - by mis-adventure LOL.  I've become really interested about the breed and the type and want to learn about the differences in character, temperament and just about everything LOL.  I know Elkhounds are classsed as hounds in UK but believe they are of Spitz/Northern breed classification almost everywhere else.
Anyone got any info/anecdotes?

I go a Kleinspitz bitch and four pups here at present, also by "mis-adventure" ;). She arrived preggers, dirty, matted and wet from a life spent in a shed. However, since she has had her pups, knows the hang of things now she developed into a right little madame. She now demands to be let back in by barking at the door, she insists on sitting on her "throne" aka armchair and has basically housetrained herself (never had a rescue here who learnt so quickly), her recall is excellent, she is a VERY quick learner and whoever adopts her will have to keep her busy mentally! Am not a huge fan of small fluffies but this lady has style ;). I also have a blind Pom/Kleinspitz, not sure yet as he isn't finished growing, also a rescue and I can tell you, he wasnt born yesterday either ;).

As far as Elkhound go, my friend has a couple of them and I never forget the first time I met them. I never fuss about strange dogs, I just ignore them unti I get an idea of whats going on. My friend says: "It's ok, they are fine with strangers." So I say hello and slowy extent a hand to be sniffed at, yeah right, next thing I know, the smallest of the lot was dangling off my hand!

Cant add anything knowledgable but before we got our pom x I was certainly not into small fluffies. Now totally taken by them and hope to have a pom or klein  to add to the furrie family sometime in the future. Otterhound I would agree with your comments excpt in our case it has taken 18months to house train grrr. Shame you arn't nearer except oh would kill me just now if I added to the family !
Sorry I cant add anything useful

My No1's for talking about Norsk Elg Hunds would be members Brainless and Vanhalla and I could talk to these two till the cows come home!! Fantastic dogs and 2 fantastic breeders... said with every Bias ;-)
HTH?

Ooops!

Vanhalla!!

> the smallest of the lot was dangling off my hand!

Good grief I do hope you mean in a playful way, otherwise that would be most untypical of their temperament.

I do think the Spitz group can vary quite a lot in attitude and character, but independence is I think common to them all.

In general terms there are some that are dog dominant, some dour and more loners, and others sociable, to those needing their own kind for company.

I fostered an Elkhound cross Husky and was quite amazed at how different she was to the purebred Elkhounds. 

She didn't have the off switch that they do, but was up up up all the time,not just physically more mentally, and it wasn't just her age as I had a youngster of similar age at the time, who could keep up with her energy, but would happily be much more laid back and mentally calmer.

She seemed much more like the Huskies I have met.

The little bugger was firmly attached to my hand ;). He didn't break the skin but I had a lovely bruise the next day. They know me now and I've never had a problem since.

> The little bugger was firmly attached to my hand ;-).

Was it a game for him though, unacceptably OTT admittedly. 

My Jozi was very 'mouthy' when she first came back to me as an 8 months old OTT delinquent, but it was obviously meant in fun, even though getting nipped on bum or boob was no joke!

Her grandughter Inka thinks it fun to hang on to your bare foot when exiting the kitchen, and then grins at you as her grndmother did, waiting to see how the game would go.

I have 4 Japanese Spitz's that i breed and show and my mom has 2, mother in law has 2 and sister inlaw has 1 and they all have very similar behaviour and the same goes for the many jap spitz's ive met.
They're very stand offish on first meeting but once they warm to you theyre very friendly and love nothing more than sitting on your lap having a belly rub, that said they are very loyal but not to the point of being subserviant they have minds of their owns very intelligent and quite bossy expecially the females. In my mind they have everything the looks of beauty champs, charming , intelligent , comical and loving and after having owned many breeds in the past i dont think ill ever have anything now other than jap spitz, well maybe a pom when im much older and kids have buggered off.

>> Was it a game for him though, unacceptably OTT admittedly. 
>
> My Jozi was very 'mouthy' when she first came back to me as an 8 months old OTT delinquent, but it was obviously meant in fun, even though getting nipped on bum or boob was no joke!
>
> Her grandughter Inka thinks it fun to hang on to your bare foot when exiting the kitchen, and then grins at you as her grndmother did, waiting to see how the game would go.

No, it wasn't, she had to pry him off my hand, it helped that I didn't pull back the hand. God only knows what went on in his head, as I said, he has been fine with me ever since.

That is just so untypical. :(

I wouldn't expect any elkhound to behave like that - frank, fearless and FRIENDLY are written into the standard.  Some can be a little standoffish until they get to know you/have assessed your worth and intentions, but I would never, ever expect them to lay on, and an initial examination would usually be followed by friendly overtures.

my friend who shows her jap spitz also shows a elkhound and i always benched next to me and she brings him with her as NFC if not on same day and out of the rows of jap spitz he's always the best behaved there,he's very full on with his love and likes to give lots of cuddles but always impecably behaved amongst the rest

Well, I don't know about impeccably behaved being typical for an elkhound Boody - lol - but full on love sounds about right.  As far as temperament goes, they are a good choice for families as they are are usually good with children (if the children are well-trained, that is!), seeming to understand that they are small and need looking after, e.g. washing, helping to toddle round, etc.  They usually love everyone in the family, not just one person.  They like to be with you and to be part of everything you do - if you're going out for a long walk, they are happy to go too, but they won't trash the house if you have an occasional day of couch potatery.  They are very bright, and the secret is to always keep one step ahead - they are trainable to a high standard, but the high-power nose can be distracting and they sometimes go selectively deaf.  The secret to training an elkhound is to demonstrate what's in it for them, as it is for many breeds.  Food is a powerful motivator, but an elkhound doesn't need much food to get fat, and this is where some owners can go wrong.  Never let the elkhound take over and rule the home - he will lose all respect for you - but don't be cruel and raise your hand to him - or he will lose all respect for you!  There is a fine balance, and firm but fair works best.  The bond between elkhound and owner is based on mutual respect - I once heard a story about a dog refusing to hunt for its owner again as he had failed to shoot the elk which the dog was holding for him.  I've lived with elkhounds since 1978, and I've never had anything else so it's hard to compare, but I notice that they are less "busy" than my friends' vallhunds, which are always on the go.  They're nice, happy little dogs though, and also good with children.  They can't turn on a dime like the elks though - different angulation/functional design.
The worst things about elkhounds are the potential barking, which is second nature and needs nipping in the bud from the first, and the hair which comes out so thickly when they moult that is sometimes called tumbleelk!  They are guarding in that they will sound the alarm quite readily, but I wouldn't expect them to touch an intruder.
They have a soft mouth and can be trained to retrieve.  The Norwegians always kept them as all-purpose farm dogs and they are very versatile - they can be used for a range of prey, not just deer, and because they don't lay on they can be used to track injured animals - and people.  They have been used by some people to herd sheep.  They will even pull small loads, although not primarily designed for it, such as logs.  They are buiilt for endurance, rather than speed, so they will walk all day if you want them too, then get up and do it all again the next day.
They will generally live quite happily with other furries and breeds of dog, even rodents - although normal precautions should apply with guineapigs, rabbits, etc and they should be around them from a young age.  We kept them for years with cats and guineapigs, and the cats definitely ruled the roost.  It is a bad fault in Norway for a dog to show too much interest in livestock - they should leave the stock alone and follow the game - but they would need to be used to sheep, cows, horses from an early age in order to maintain happy relationships.

Hehe well maybe impreccable is stretching it, but compared to my naughty puppies i always feel very envious how he always seems so chilled and well behaved only draw back is she cant just pick him up and place him out of reach like i can mine :)

Oh Vanhalla I am glad you did it, as I didn't want to be accused of breed bias, LOL ;) ;)

Thanks for replies so far.  I do get lots of great advice from Brainless, Vanhalla, and many other Elkhound owners and breeders and experts from this and specialist forums.
I don't think I phrased my question well.  It's more of a general interest question than what some may think is an inquiry to inform me about getting another breed of dog.  I am absolutely besotted with my 2 girls [13 yr old X collie and 3 yr old Elkhound].  I hope I don't have to consider another for quite some time yet - I'm now sticking at 2.
I agree with lots said about Elkhounds - from my very limited experience with just the one.  Heidi is easy  going and great with kids - mine were fairly sensible teenagers when we got Heidi but she is brill with local kids + lots of them. She can both walk for miles and happily cuddle on the settee, not too sure what independence means but she is fine being left [especially when it's routine and I tell her when I'll be back LOL] Having had [rescue] dogs with severe seperation anxiety this is absolute luxury.  I wouldn't say she was the brightest but I haven't trained her to the extent I have other dogs I've had, she has and can learn different 'commands' though. 
Being really picky, the only things I don't like so much are: the tendency to put on weight - I enjoy feeding my dogs and my other dog is  a skinny thing; not wanting to play ball - great way to give intensive exercise not to mention retrieve is needed in KCGD awards; also having been too wary about chasing livestock - I think I've over-compensated for a suggested tendency in breed descriptions  thus restricting her free running.
What I'm really trying to find out is what are the similarities and differences between Northern breeds.  Just for my own interest and possibly also giving me more insight into these types of dog..  A question someone else asked re Labradors and Retrievers sparked this off.  Although my knowledge is still very limited it is much greater in gundogs and working dogs.
I read plenty of breed descriptions and I'm trying to understand them better but the differences between Spitz breeds seem very subtle and I'm just interested.

Vanhalla Thanks Great post
I love the shedding - very therapeutic similar to basket weaving for me LOL [not sure if I'd say that if it were all year round]
Haven't really had a problem with livestock other than my fears of her chasing [and worse - her poss getting shot at]
She's great with furries - had 2 rabbits she was fabulous with - she'd sit at the pen opening to make sure they didn't 'do a runner' [sadly both rabbits died this year at almost 10 yrs old]
Heidi will sometimes fetch - but certainly doesn't seem to like chasing a ball - though she loves chasing Tinker [our other dog] chasing the ball!

Like the contrast with the Vallhund.  Sounds a bit more terrierish charactaristics maybe?

I've got an 11 years old Elkhound and 4 Vallhunds. They're not at all terrier like! To me they are a typical heeler/herding breed, very good off lead and very responsive to commands. There are big differences between them, we have to watch Biff all the time when off lead as he is prone to let his hunting instinct get the better of him but then we just send the Valls to round him up. I also owned his Aunt and before we had the Vallhunds had very little problem with barking!! He sleeps in my daughter's bedroom and the relationship they have is wonderful, she's 18 now and  he seems to understands everything she says to him. In some respects it's a shame the breed is not more popular as they are great with children.

> They're not at all terrier like!

Sorry Biffsmum -  I was just meaning to refer to the coments about them been much more 'busy' than Elkies and lively,happy chaps -plus being responsive to commands. I've found terriers to be like this whereas the breed characteristics of Elkhounds [and maybe even Vallhunds] say differently.  That's why it's so intereting getting info from actual owners/breeders rather than trying to decipher KC guides on breeds.
Is Biff your Elkie?  I love the image of your Vallhunds herding him back.  Does this mean that Vallhunds are less likely to hunt than Elkhounds? 

I have German spitz Mittel, I was told they have no hunting instinct but 2 of my 5 def have. Lunar caught a sparrow flying 3 ft from the ground last week, it had flown into the kennel run I opened the door to let it out and as it did she jumped caught it mid flight and immediately dropped it, I felt awful picked it up but too late. The other 3 don't bother our pet rabbits except for the youngest Macey who jumps in the cage with them :-) but def no predatory instinct with her. They excel at agility, flyball and just love to learn :-),  They are quite independant too, only 1 of mine gets stressed at being left but soon settles. Downsides are they can be noisy and the shedding is a pain (but only 2x year) but these apply to most Spitz breeds.

Hi Heidi2006 - my Vallhunds have little hunting instinct, not something you would want in a breed that is bred to drive livestock along. I sometimes look after a friend's bullie pups, when she has a litter, and they all are glad to see the back of them, far too bouncy and boisterous.

We all adore Biff and will be devastated when he is no longer with us but having the Vallhunds has made us realise how nice it is to have dogs that can go off the lead and will come back!! I just wish they weren't so sharp at every little noise. Also, although they have the double coat, they make far less mess when moulting.

The other thing I find facinating with them is they seem to "know" other Vallhunds and we can have others to stay and they just fit into the pack with no problems. They aren't like this with other breeds.

Ideal would be a Vallhund with long legs then. ;)

That is my only frustration the 'bog off' tendency, especially as 90% of the time they can be very good :D  and of course they are very Bright and trainable but they think they know better.

Yes, but I don't think it would be a good idea to cross breed them!!!!

Oh good grief no.  The bog off trait is part of what makes them good at their job. 

In fact an Elkhound that won't go off (loshund hunting) and keeps coming back too often on the hunt does not make a good hunting dog as it gets too tired.

What the dogs do when hunting is return once in a while to where they last saw you.  I've hunted with loshunds, and they don't disappear altogether.  You will lose sight and sound of them for a while in a thickly forested area as they range further afield looking for scent, but after fifteen/twenty minutes if they don't find elk, you will hear a rustling in the undergrowth, and there they will be again.
I've only had one elkhound that can't be let off the lead anywhere, and I'm hopeful that I might be able to as he gets older and less nose-orientated.  My family have owened a total of 12 of them so far.  The older male when a youngster gave me a fright once or twice, but he's pretty reliable these days.  I guess it depends on where you are walking and what's around you as to how comfortable you feel letting them off.  I don't let them off lead where there are livestock, more because I don't want the farmer to shoot them, or near traffic.  My old bitch has always been very reliable off the lead, except for one memorable day when she got carried away chasing a low-flying pheasant - it was tantalisingly close, and she couldn't help herself!

I certainly didn't want to give the impression of anyone bogging off for ages, LOL, just coming back in own sweet time occasionally.

Even Jozi at her worst has never had me waiting more than a half hour, and that with tracking back to have me in sight the whole time.

In the meantime her four kennel mates had all come back when called.

But an Elkhound that sticks too it's owner never going more than a little distance won't be much use hunting in the forest.

Must admit until I had Jozi back I never had any issues with any of the dogs off lead, their recalls were not maybe lightening quick, but reliable.  Fro the last 9 1/2 years Jozi has been one to rock my confidence and now I am pretty paranoid where I will feel confident to let the girls off, and have erred on the side of caution and they get a lot less free running than my first three ever did.

My jap Spitz are not very trust worthy with recall, although theyre very loyal and follow me everywhere theyre also terribly nosey and thats what always puts me off letting them off and  nealry all of the people i know that show them all say the same in regards to recall which puts me off even more :)

Anworth the bird thing must have been pretty upsetting - it sounds as if she was just reacting instinctively catching something possibly dangerous flying by - rather than killing instinct.  Do you find a difference in sexes in their hunting -Is Lunar male or female? 
Heidi used to go into the rabbit pen but was mostly interested in pinching their carrots!  She and they would often sniff 'Hello' at each other though too.  Ditto the 'can be noisy/shedding 2/year'

How long do you usually walk your dogs for/are they good off lead/can they do a full days hike [o'er hill + dale] and settle on the couch being a potatoe at times too. 
Good on yer for the agility etc -

Hi Biffsmum
> my Vallhunds have little hunting instinct, not something you would want in a breed that is bred to drive livestock along.

My X Collie [maybe she's crossed with a Terrier?] seems to have far more hunting instincts than my Elkhound. I suppose that it could also be that her 1st couple of years or so were also spent, majorly, fending for herself - stealing though, rather than hunting I think; she lived in a pub and seems to adore cheese butties and garlic bread, chicken and pizza.  She also is the one I seem to have to watch more on our moorland walks - ponies, cattle and sheep around.  Just trying to develop some 'logical' understanding here, but isn't the herding instinct close to the hunting instinct?
Very interesting about Vallhunds recognising their own.  I've read similar about other Spitz breeds [can't remember where]  I think it's something to do with body language - and breeds ability to read each others' signals.

> Very interesting about Vallhunds recognising their own.  I've read similar about other Spitz breeds [can't remember where]  I think it's something to do with body language - and breeds ability to read each others' signals.

My Basenjis definitley recognise their own. Everytime Belle gets to the Basenji benches she will let out a lovely yodel when she sees her own breed. Even while walking round the show she will get all excited if she sees another and doesn't bat an eye at other breeds.

> I think it's something to do with body language - and breeds ability to read each others' signals.

I think it is more likely imprinting from the nest,a s of course their mothers and likely other relatives were of the same breed.

Mien always recognise and like Dobermans and Golden Retrievers as these breed numbered amongst their most intimate Friends.

Hi Otterhound - Sorry late replying to this but you got so many expert replies I thought i'd bow out at the time.  Can't believe your experience with your friends Elkhonds that must have been awful for you. 
I know I know little, having only one and don't show or breed or anything them, but saying that I have been to a show when I purely watched Elkies and met peole with up to 5 of them.  I can sometimes get scared with dogs but I just felt comletely relaxed - even with one set of competitors who had 5 of them - and often only having one of them in charge of the dogs at a time.  Small children, mobile dog crates, people and dogs pushing past - not a grumble was seen or heard by me - and I was paying attention particularly having not had Heidi for long and wanting to learn more about the breed.  Also, Heidi is such a 'lady' when jumping on and off me on the sofa, she almost skips off so she doesn't put any weight on me [she sort of does a 2 or 3 legged jump if that makes any sense].  She did go through a mouthy stage as a yougster but all we had to do was relax our hand and she'd let go or jst stay with her mouth around our hand/s without any pressure whatsoever.
I do wonder if these dogs have been encouraged to play fight?  i think, particularly when seeing an Elki sitting, they can look quite fierce, and this can encourage rough play.  I know my sons like to rough and tumble, with our dogs as well as each other LOL,  but I've had to supervise this so it didn't get out of hand, especially when dog is young maybe something similar had happened with your friends' dogs. 

> I think it is more likely imprinting from the nest,a s of course their mothers and likely other relatives were of the same breed.
> Mien always recognise and like Dobermans and Golden Retrievers as these breed numbered amongst their most intimate Friends

Interesting comment Brainless.  What do you think about conformation and its' effect on dogs' ability to read others' body language? 

Another interesting situation I have found is that Heidi, although she always likes to run up to and greet other dogs, I know I should have her better trained or on lead at all times or something but having said that, she is still fairly timid [not timid aggressive] around other dogs and, apart from our Cocker Spaniel we had to re-home she hasn't fought with another dog, yet she barks like mad when one particular dog - a boxer bitch walks past.  She knows it's this dog from quite a distance without seeing her, and I haven't a clue how she knows [maybe she could bean exceptional hunter???]  I hope you can understand my garble and try to explain how this relates to imprinting. 
I think I'm already answering my own question here - she could've come across Boxers in the nest/ early weeks or at a later stage of imprinting [ is this arund puberty 9 monthsish?] and this Boxer constantly walking past her 'territory' our garden has wound her up.

It's more likely that as she lacks a bit in confidence and boxes tend to have very confident body language that she feels intimidated. 

Possibly, but she's never met this dog outside.  She's seen the Boxer on the common [boxer off lead Heidi on] at a 100yards ors so and not bothered then.  I don't let H off there as it's not enclosed, she may be more interested in getting to our place for free-runing then. 

Lunar is a female, but no real difference in sexes. They are more than happy to accompany me on all day hikes or a 20 min run on the fields - generally good off lead mine have all been let off and are expected to follow as soon as their vaccs complete we have not lost one yet LOL. Play hide and seek a lot so they see the whole following thing as a game :-)
I am sat here at the mo with Lu on the couch beside me and the others flat out around the room, they have been out in the garden this afternoon and had a 1/2hr road walk tonight (generally x2 day) but if I was to put on my fleece they would be up and ready for more :-)
Angela

> Hi Otterhound - Sorry late replying to this but you got so many expert replies I thought i'd bow out at the time.  Can't believe your experience with your friends Elkhonds that must have been awful for you. 
>

Hi, no it wasn't awful, I spend my life with dogs and there is always something unexpected happening. And there is always one who proves the breed description wrong when it comes to temperament ;). My friend is an experienced dog person and she usually knows her dogs inside out.

I got mauled by a Yellow Lab a few years back and spent a few days in hospital but that doesn't mean that all Yellow Labs are "killers".

> I got mauled by a Yellow Lab a few years back and spent a few days in hospital but that doesn't mean that all Yellow Labs are "killers".

Yes, but there are enough Labradors around that one bad one would not likely affect your opinion of the breed.

Sadly even though long established in the UK (1870's) the breed is not generally well enough known to stop one bad example tarnishing  breeds reputation, or just that persons perception of the breed :(

The really sad thing is the at BYB bred pups are not that common, but with the low KC registrations in the UK 55 in 2008, probably about 100 in 2009) those become too large a proportion of the breed that the GP may meet, worse still when bought by people who haven't researched the bred for a decent breeder or worse still bought on impulse from a retail outlet, so often not reared the best with no knowledgeable back up or insight into the breed such as they would have from a reputable breeder.

Brainless

> worse still when bought by people who haven't researched the bred for a decent breeder or worse still bought on impulse from a retail outlet, so often not reared the best with no knowledgeable back up or insight into the breed such as they would have from a reputable breeder

Thank goodness for Champdogs and the breed specific site - I've found the people there invaluable in providing information and help and encouragement - and acceptance of where I got Heidi from - despite the fact she's not from a 'proper' breeder.  I hope this remark doesn't discourage people from buying from the aforementioned 'proper/reputable' breeders as it may seem that they can get the back-up of these dedicated people without the research/interrogation required in order to obtain a pup from them. 

I think helping new owners understand their breed from wherever they may have come only benefits the breed as a whole.

Unfortunately people who may have got a dog from not the best source may also not know where to find the advice that could be so useful. 

In this respect the internet has been a godsend I think.

> In this respect the internet has been a godsend I think.

Here Here Especially for me. Thanks