All advice welcome....5 month old Golden Retriever acts at times like is out of control.  His "mouthing" of my arms and hands draws blood, he has ripped every item of clothing I have..he jumps up at the back of the kids and "mouths" their heads. If i am in the garden he will run at the back of my legs and bite my coat, then try and hump me...  NOT FUN.  His playing gets wild and he jumps on the couch, screwing his nose up and growling if you try and get him off.  In true Goldie style he will go onto his back on the couch and attack your hand as you try to get him off.  He will get off for a treat but only for a treat and then he gets straight back on again.  He jumps up at everything and everyone.  He is fantastic with sit, stand, down, off... in fact will do anything for food.  He is brill at night and has been toilet trained from being 10 weeks.  He is walked everyday (not too far), played with, and is home alone for very short periods.  He does not beg at mealtimes and waits patiently until his dinner is ready.  He is not possesive over food but did snap at me yesterday when I tried to get a sock out of his mouth.  He is now spending more and more time in the kitchen in the evening as he is a nightmare with me and the kids.  We have been to puppy classes and is well socialised.
Do we need a behaviourist, any recommendations in Yorkshire welcome.

When you say he been to training classes, are you still attending. At 5 months he is only a baby, and as such needs be taught boundaries. I would suggest you look at the APDT website (www.apdt.co.uk), they have a number of trainers covering Yorkshire, and you can be assured that they use kind, fair training methods. I don't know how far you are from Sheffield, but Val Strong is excellent. Although he is only a baby, he does sound quite a hooligan and needs taking in hand now. Most of the goldens we get into rescue are young adolescent males, as they are hard work and take a lot of time and energy.

In the meantime I would suggest you attach a houseline to his collar (at least three feet long) then if he jumps on anything/one, you will be able to remove him without having to manhandle him, thus encouraging him to bite at your hands. A typical Golden does NOT attack your hand. Quietly tell him "off" as you pull him off, then calmly praise him when he is on the floor.

Games should stop BEFORE he gets wild, he needs to play, but calm games. IMHO children tend to bring out the worst in puppies, and I have no doubt that when he was smaller they laughed at him jumping on them, but now he is a bit older it is no longer funny. It is up to you to supervise play and ensure that he doesn't get so over excited. 

With regard to the snap, teach him to swap things. Give him a toy and engage him in a little game, then offer him a tasty treat in exchange for the toy. Usually as soon as the food is offered they will let go of the toy, as he does tell him to give, swap or whatever you want to call it. Once he has eaten the treat give him the toy back, and repeat the step a couple of times. He will then learn that if he gives you the object when you ask he gets a tasty reward, and even better he then gets the toy back to play with so in future he won't feel the need to run off with or guard objects. This is such an important lesson, as one day he might pick something up you really NEED to take off him. Socks and small objects should be kept out of his way as many a puppy has ended up in surgery to remove such items.

All the hard work you put in now, will reap dividends in the future. He sounds a very confident outgoing pup, and definitely the sort who will benefit from attending good training classes for the forseeable future.

Very sensible reply from Goldiemad. 

Good advice...I have tried the treat exchange game this morning and he is responding already..thanks.   Thanks for the recommendation of Val Strong if things don't improve I will contact her.  I did allow Woody to mouth me when he was tiny and grab onto my clothes, I know it was a mistake now and stopping it isn't so easy.    When he's good he is so good and I accept all puppys and dogs have their moments,  but this dog is very persistant and it is wearing me down!  I also like the idea of the house lead and will give that a go too.
Thanks.

good advice from Goldiemad :)

Just to offer some reasurance, my pup was like this at 7 months old, but due to his size he could knock me to the floor to mouth MY head, he especially enjoyed trying to tug my hair off He got so bad I broke down in tears and thought I had made the worst decison of my life getting him :( I had a mental chat with myself, LOL, and decided that as the human being in the equasion I would not be defeated, LOL. It does get better, I promise, it is a lot of work, much easier to tackle if you believe you will get there in the end and believe that all your efforts aren't futile :)

As Goldiemad said using a house line is a great way to stop these OTT times. I personally clipped Bsters lead to him and calmly lead him to the ktichen, where he would spend a few minutes on his own to calm him down. You have probably found that physically touching them (even holding thier colloar) is taken as a game ans only excites them more, as does shouting or raised voices. So keep calm and don't raise your voice.

Now buster is 2 & half years old, I am actually glad it took so long to stop him mouthing! (He was still mouthing in an OTT way at 1 yr old) He's had soooooooooooooo much practice that he can control the force of his mouth in mid-play, that means, despite being heavier than me, when we rough-house he can dive at me, grab my arm - with a soft mouth :) (Just to say I have allowed him to rough-play as he LOVES it, and it's helped teach some rules re. his big gob!) So look at is as teaching him bite-force control (which is important) :)

Agree with Goldimad re. kids bringing out the worst in dogs LOL, free interaction with children is just a great game for a pup, and any sqeeling in pain or fleeing in terror only adds to the fun of the chase!! Best to not leave them unsupervised.

If you can pre-empt these times and have a distraction at the ready, for day time 'madness' I would use a cardboard box with some treats hidden in, so all that energy can be directed at 'puzzle' (once pup has sussed how to easily access treats ion box, you can use a box IN anohter box then progress to scrunching treats up in newspaper so pup has to 'open' treats once found in box. Keep an eye on pup to make sure he isn't eating all the cardboard!) . For evening 'madness', I think it was a case of Buster being over-tired, I found he would enjoy chewing on a toy (I HAD to hold it for him, bless him) and he would fall asleep having a belly rub and a chew on the toy, the first time I tried that -BLISS :)

Best of luck, there is light at the end of the tunnel and the more work you put in now, the more glad you will be later on :)

The trick is to keep calm, and watch for the first signs of over excitement.  All interaction must then stop.  Even telling off is seen as attention so everything must be boring.

With the kids the rule must be that only quiet time is allowed with the puppy, no running about or playing.

When my children were small (toddlers and pre school) I made this a firm rule and also fenced off apart of the garden where the kids would play and dogs could not go.  It saved a lot of hassle, especially when they had Friends around, and also no poop trodden into the house.

When out and dog off lead, as son as children appeared or were running about the rule was that the dog must return and be put on lead or sit by my side.

This way the pup learns that children equals quiet time, and not excitement.

Of course pup is quietly rewarded for this quiet,a and the house line will help a lot as you won't be putting your hands on the pup which will invite mouthing, and of course are able to enforce commands without undue confrontation..

Thanks ...I too have cried tears over the dogs behaviour thinking what a mistake I have made.   You're all so right about raised voices and physical grabbing making the dogs behaviour worse.   I have had to grab him a couple of times when he has really latched onto the kids clothes and wouldn't get off and he has turned on me!  Shouting at him also makes it worse but I sitll don't know what to do when he decides to play really rough.  In fact I'm not totally sure that it is play, today, totally unexpected I  walked into the kitchen past him, he jumped up at my arm, grabbed it really hard and bit me.  I say bite, I know he is a baby but I have his teeth marks indented in my arm and it is bleeding.  This is the hardest he has ever done this and I am worried.
I have isolated him in the dining room but I had to drag him there on his back as he was snarling and trying (half heartedly at this point) to grab my arm.  So if shouting makes him worse and physically pushing him away makes him enraged what should I do in relation to this biting.  I have tried turning my back on him and ignoring him, he attacks from behind.  The breeder I got him from is fantastic and has offered to take him back with her Goldies for a couple of weeks to see if that helps....does anyone think this would help??

> The breeder I got him from is fantastic and has offered to take him back with her Goldies for a couple of weeks to see if that helps....does anyone think this would help??

This might just be the break you need.  It sounds like you've inadvertantly let his behaviour get a bit out of hand and although you are wise to it now it'll need a bit of effort to bring it all under control.  A short holiday with his breeder will give him a chance to learn some new behaviours and give you and your family some time to agree your new house rules.

You've had some good advice and, if you break down all the trigger points, you can make plans about what action to take.  By pre thinking all of this you will find it easier to take immediate action when necessary as your boy will need you to be decisive and be consistent with him.  It will be worth explaining all the issues with your breeder so that she can help you decide the strategies that will work for you and your family.

> I sitll don't know what to do when he decides to play really rough

With this one, for instance, it's safer and more effective if you remove yourself from the dog rather than the other way around.  As you have seen it's not effective for you to drag him.  It's dangerous for you and also unkind as it's not really demonstrating what you expect from him.  He needs to learn that all interaction ceases immediately he gets too rough so get up and walk out.  I would stop all rough play and concentrate on training instead.  There's no reason it can't be fun and he will benefit from using his brain rather than his muscle.  :)

Thanks for your advice ...I think a couple of weeks with a bunch of Goldies who won't put up with his snapping might do him good..I will miss him though.  This nipping and snarling he is doing towards me is not even when I do play with him,  its if I walk past him or if I am cooking, or fastening the kids coats, or tidying up, any time really when he appears to be "that way out"  he will launch himself at me without warning and get hold of my arm.  I do walk away and ignore him but he follows me snapping at the back of my legs..he drives me out of the room!  

> The breeder I got him from is fantastic and has offered to take him back with her Goldies for a couple of weeks to see if that helps....does anyone think this would help??

How great, that should help :)

> So if shouting makes him worse and physically pushing him away makes him enraged what should I do in relation to this biting

Buster was really just a mouth on legs when younger! I tried to leave the room (if I was in the livingroom), but he would have great fun in grabbing my legs/bum and biting at them, so I found it easier to remove HIM, I also thoght he would soon get the message that acting like a loony (often attention-seeking behaviour with him) only resulted in segregation.

I would calmly clip his lead to his collar and lead him to the kitchen, I wouldn't pull him, just walk him (I started very early on lead-walking manners, so it was quite easy to get him to follow me, once the lead was on him). Of course he would act up as I tried to clip his lead on, but I ignored all the mouthing (even when it hurt my arms!), did my best to ignore him, not saying one word, or even looking at him, untill the lead was on, then I would say 'kitchen' and lead him there. He learnt to go to the kitchen on command before he learnt to control his mouthing, LOL.
Oh, whilst clipping the lead on to a biting/mouthing loony pup, I found it best to position myself sideways on by his shoulders, next to him (so we were next to each other, both facing the same direction, with him slightly ahead of me), it's easier to clip the lead on without getting bitten so much as it's less confrontational/exciting for the dog than bending over thier head from infornt of them.

Hi Newpup, just wondering how you are getting on with your pup, or if indeed he has gone for a 'holiday' with his breeder.

Hi goldimad,

I hope this posts,  I've tried adding posts since Saturday but without the help of my 15 year old step daughter my posts have not posted!
Well,  Woody is still with us, I have spoken to the breeder who wonders if he will actually be well behaved with her and her Goldies as I do seem to  bring out the worse in him!  He is like Jekyl and Hide..when he is good, so good, adorable, well trained, obedient pup....when he is bad, he is bad, snarling barking diving on the couch, grabbing hands and arms bad!
I have been removing him as advised and it definately does help.  He is calming down quicker as I walk away from him (he is usually attached to the back of my clothing with his legs wrapped tightly around mine, snarling!), I have limited his access in the house to the kitchen (we spend most time in there anyway, its no hardship), and I have a temporary gate blocking access to the lounge and dining areas.  At least this way the kids can get some peace.
Even in his maddest moments when I am worried he will bite he suprises me by running and picking a toy up from the floor,  so I understand that this aggression (if you can call it that) is play related. 
It seems almost like its in my head when I look at him right now,  calm and well behaved, but when he goes on one he drives me to tears!
Is this scenario familier to you too???

Sounds a lot like a clever and active puppy to me.

My youngest now 17 months thinks it hilarious to grab my feet and legs as I step through the baby gate that is across kitchen to living-room door and stands there and grins at me when she gets a reaction.

This could have gotten well out of hand had I reacted and not diverted attention, ignored, acted like a tree etc.

She will now still do it with a wicked grin when my feet are bare!

She is much more likely to play the OH up, as he is a soft touch.

For a pup it's all about getting a reaction, any reaction.

A canine is a carnivore, that has to hunt to live, so all the games a carnivore young needs are related to honing it's hunting and killing skills, which it practises with it's fellow.

If you watch a field of sheep, who are a herd animal that would be prey to carnivores, their play consists of escape and avoidance games.  they will run and dodge and chase and pronk practising life skills.  Of course both escape and hunting skills overlap to some extent so we don't often think of the differences in purpose to styles of play in young animals.

I'm glad you are making a little progress. I would definitely consider speaking to an apdt trainer and booking pup on the first available course. He does sound a bright little soul and they are the hardest to rear, but ultimately make wonderful companions. The more you can keep his little mind busy, the less he will make up his own mischief games. At the moment he is like a naughty bored child, who needs to be kept busy, and the more mental stimulation you give him the easier your life will be. Also if you are attending training classes, it will give you the opportunity to chat to your trainer about any little problems you have and they will have the advantage of seeing the pup for themselves.

You have had some really good advice on here, I just wanted to ask what are you feeding your dog, could it be his diet that is making him a little hyper active?

I have a golden boy (almost 4 now) when he was a puppy he was a real hand full, they can be hard work especially if like me you haven't had other dogs behave like this in the past, he used to jump up and hold onto my skirt with his teeth, he ruined lots of clothes and tops.  He would stand on his hind legs and actually box me if he didn't want to do something - but believe me with patience and training he will grow out of it - you have to be firm with him but not cruel.  It was slighly easier for me as I don't have young children living here so I would definitely say to give your puppy time out (away from the children) and alway always be with the children when the dog is around. 

Continue with the training, a class that you are happy with and suits you will also suit him best, they will pick up on your discomfort or nerves so best finding a class that suits you, not all classes/trainers whatever their qualifications suit everyone - all people and dogs are different.  So don't be afraid to search around for the right class.

Good luck and please do not give up on your boy - Jekyl and Hide or not he will get better.  Just to put the cat amongs the pigeons was he born in April (my boy was) an Aries through and through :)

i think the breeder is right to say the pup will be on his best behaviour with her & other older dogs who may put him in his place, then come back & could be even worse with you & you'd be back to square one. I must say some of the more 'difficult' pups I've owned have turned out to be the best dogs ever. Stick with him & take the good advice given here.

Thanks for the further advice....we have had issues with food and sloppy poo etc etc.  He came to me from the breeder on Royal Canin but I changed this to Orijen to the high quality ingredients, this didn't work for him unfortunately due to the high protein levels giving him sloppy poo, not fun!
I really wanted to feed him a food that I considered good quality and have found that Arden Grange works really well for us.  It really agrees with him and slowed down his rapid growth rate to a more normal level...there was concerns from the vet when he was on Orijen that he was growing too fast and was a little podgy. Anyway although the ingredients are not as refined as Orijen its still a good quality food and works for my dog.  I would have loved to continue on Orijen but its not right for my dog.
I am sticking with keeping him at home at the moment.  I just have to keep walking away from his crazy playing, like you advised, hopefully he will grow out of it. 
What food do you use??

I use Arden Grange too.

Just something you should be aware of with your behaviour modification techniques.

There is a thing called 'Extinction Burst' which often makes people think a  training  method is not working.

What happens is that a dog has got used to a behaviour getting a certain reaction, or any reaction. 

When you start ignoring him, changin yoru reactions, he will try even harder to get the expected response on the basis of 'if I did this before it worked, so I must do it harder/more so it works again'.

You have to get through this stage, so often it seems at times that things get worse before they get better.

Ill keep that in mind....when he gets on one it does appear that he is not listening to anything...nothing seems to calm him down,  just walking off.  For a smart dog he seems to be taking a long time to get the message....misbehave and your on your own!  He ended up isolated in the kitchen approx 10 times yesterday!

Yep that's an extinction burst, he will try all the harder to get what he wants, you must be totally consistent.  If you cave in then he will think next time the just has to try harder and harder and will eventually get the result he wants.

What you also need to do at the moment is set him up to succeed.

You need to find reasons to reward and praise him, though in a clam manner, very slow strokes quiet slow speech.

Then he will realise that he can get attention for positive behaviour and opt to choose that over the silly stuff.

It is very easy to forget to praise or reward the god behaviour, so what is the incentive for the dog/child???

I have spoken to the breeder who wonders if he will actually be well behaved with her and her Goldies If she will put the work in for you Yes!!!!! :-)

I once helped out a friend who had a Goldie who acted not too far off yours, she had had dogs before but always rescues and never had a pup, she completely spoilt him, :-( showed no authority and the dog did whatever he wanted as she loved him and thought it funny that he bounced all over her furniture, snatched food, and did whatever he liked, she only took him to two training classes as he showed her up! (rolleyes) As he grew bigger and stronger it obviously became a problem he became a completely unruly lunatic and she was in tears as you have been, regretting having him and talking of sending him back to breeder.

I told her I would sort the pup out for her he was only 7 months, he came to me and he wouldn't do a darn thing he was asked he thought he ruled the house, I had my girl and asked my mum if I could also borrow a couple of hers particulary her alpha bitch, three days in that dog was on his best behaviour, the dogs taught him doggy manners even though he was bigger than them, they gave him a few good tellings off and I began praise and reward and my cold stare with stern, calm voice, (works every time) along with time outs if he would not comply, within 3 days that dog was 80% better behaved, by the time he was collected 2 weeks later he was a different dog, calm and obediant. I insisted that my friend enrolled him immediately into training classes and that my friend followed my lead. That dog is brilliant now and she never looked back, looking at him a few weeks later it was hard to imagine that she had ever contemplated giving him up.

So, I would definitely say let the breeder have him for a couple of weeks to re-train and teach him manners via herself and her dogs, IMO it will be easier for you as he will then be in a different frame of mind rather than you trying to start from scratch yourself he will have some values installed to start with, that way when he comes back to you, you can start again as the authority figure and have a much more calmer and obediant dog along with all the helpfull advice from everyone above with training and behaviour tips it is so easy to turn this dog around.

Good luck! :-)

Yes i accept I have been too soft.....the dog was a fresh start,  we have had a very tragic year,  its easy to see where we went wrong now.
I know we will work it out though,  I will do whatever it takes.  He really is a part of our family and just like my kids he needs rules!

Hi there, I know I've come into this thread a little late, but I have the same breed as you and as others have said, sometimes they can become little (or big!) delinquents at this age. The trouble is, they are so cute when small they probably get away with a whole host of naughty behaviour and it only comes back to bite us (sometimes literally!) when they are getting big and flexing their muscles!!! It sounds like he's well and truly taken over the household and it's time for you to take back control.

My boy was pretty much as you describe, we had holes in all our clothes, he would bite and mouth us, he ruined the garden!!, my 2 cats spent a whole year living upstairs, he chewed... whatever he could get his teeth into.. and I have to say he is the best dog in the world now, you would never believe he was such a reprebate!!!

Honestly - I think you should think about letting him go and spend time with the breeder as she has offered. He is obviously too used to calling the shots in your house and punishment does not seem to be hitting home. If he is forced to spend some time with other dogs, believe me, they will not put up with his brattish behaviour, in fact, I'm sure he would be a little angel in a very short time with them. This will help him to show some restraint, something he is having difficulty with. Then, when you get him home you will have had a chance to sit your children down and go through the new house rules concerning the dog. It might help if you put this in writing and on the wall, just to remind them what they should be doing.

This breed is extremely orally fixated, they naturally want to carry things in their mouths and this sometimes means they will mouth more than some other breeds. As others have suggested, acting like a statue, stop play before he becomes too excited, teaching the 'swop' game, try getting him the treat ball or something similar which he has to work at to get the food out (this keeps them engrossed for ages) are all worth working at. Has your breeder given you any suggestions to try?

The louder you and the children are, the more he will be reactive, so the only interaction should be extremely quiet. I have had success with our  7 month old (and the older ones) by the cold hard stare at the right moment, sometimes accompanied by a low voiced 'ah!'.

Oh yes, and the thing which works better than anything (especially when they will do anything for your attention) is to IGNORE them! Ignore when you enter the house and they're going nuts, ignore when they try to climb onto the settee for a cuddle, ignore when they nudge you for attention, in fact ignore unless you want something from them. With my boy, I would make an exagerated folding of the arms and look right the other way when he would demand attention, it was amazing how that small gesture spoke loudly to him in a way he could understand!

I know it's feeling really hard right now, but if you treat this the right way he will grow into a lovely boy, I feel sure! We had pups last year and one of them reported similar biting with their bitch puppy. They are programmed to climb to the top of the pile when they come into our homes, some are just more successful than others (or try harder!). This is pretty common behaviour for young adolescents of this breed, so please don't despair. You will have many very happy years with him I'm sure!

Would just add, I would hesitate to do the hard stare and gruff 'oi!' until he is not being quite so aggressive... would suggest to start with the ignoring first, speaks volumes to the dog themselves in a language they can understand.

Good luck...

Hi I have also come in a little late but you have already had some fantastic advice. It is so easy to let little puppies get away with all sorts without really thinking about what will happen when they get bigger. I just wondered whereabouts in Yorkshire you are as I may be able to recommend somebody? PM me if you prefer.

Hi and thanks to everyone who has offered advice....I thought things were on the up and then the last couple of days have been a nightmare.   The dog just won't leave me alone..he is now constantly humping my leg whilst grabbing the back of my clothing.  It is constant.  Today he has spent the whole of the day been put into the dining room and ignored.  An hour later I let him back in, he starts again and so on.  He will stop for a treat, eats the treat and starts again.  I do realise my early mistakes and I am not being a softy with him anymore. ....I discipline the kids and the dog but he just won't give up. 
He has been worse today then ever!

Hi Paula20380,  Im in West yorkshire and have had details of a lady who I like the sound of who is in South Yorkshire (recommended on here), I could just do without the cost of a behaviourist at the minute.

I'm in North Yorkshire anyway so wouldn't be any use to you!!

I think it has already been said things are likely to get worse before they get better(abit like my house when I start tidying!!) but stick with it and with determination and consistency you will get there and it will all be worthwile!! You are on the right track now and with the help and support of everyone here you will get there!

It really does sound like you need help now as the more he practices these behaviours, the more difficult it will be to regain control. Training classes should not be too expensive, at our club we charge £3.50 a week. We have many 'problem' dogs that come to our club, and the difference within a couple of weeks is amazing, the cost is only £3.50 a week. Prices do vary, but we have an excellent APDT trainer in our area, and her costs are £40 for a 6 week session, and she is considered expensive. Taking her knowledge into account, I disagree, but please bear in mind that the more you pay doesn't necessarily mean the better the advice. Infact nowadays there are an awful lot of people who have set themselves up as dog trainers, with an academic qualification, but no real practical experience. Any trainer off the APDT website will have been assessed and will have the required knowledge and use kind training methods.

If you have a look through the list of trainers on the apdt website, ring a couple of them up who offer training classes. From the sounds of it you do not particularly need a behaviourist, but someone to show you how to gain control of a naughty puppy. When you speak to them tell them that you have a naughty puppy and are looking for a training class, don't make him sound like he is a problem dog, even if in your eyes he is.  Once you start attending the classes you will have a foot in the door and experienced trainers on hand who will have seen many puppies being just as naughty. You will then be able to explain to them what he is doing at home and get first hand advice from someone who will most probably see him in action.

I am not belittling the problems you are having, but he is a puppy that is acting like a hooligan, not a dog with real behavioural issues, when my advice would be different.

> Today he has spent the whole of the day been put into the dining room and ignored.  An hour later I let him back in, he starts again and so on

Does it take him an hour to calm down? Or is it just that he is 'raring to go ' the moment he is let out again?
Segregating him for an hour at a time, is probably making him feel more frustated/bored and more inclinded to want to interact with you (which he obviously has not learnt how to do 'nicely' yet) .

I understand you must feel like it's a catch-22 situation, let him out and he's a handfull, segregate him and he gets frustrated, but if you could try to get his attention onto a more constructive outlet before he turns into a raving loony, it may help you start to get control of things.

I really do sympathise with the 'let him out, he's 'naughty', so shut him away again'. At one point, it was if Buster was attatched to the kitchen with elastic he was out & back in so quick. But as I learnt how to tire him out mentally/keep him occupied before he 'started', it helped no-end.

I can't remeber if you've allready had these suggestions so sorry if I am repeating advice, but these things should help.

Several short training sessions per day, make them rewarding (but keep them calm at the moment as he'll get OTT otherwise), and keep them short. If he is food motivated, the few minutes prior to meal times should give you the edge (especially if you put his empty food bowl on the side & he is waiting for you to feed him) as he'll be wanting to focus on you.

You can feed part of his meal from a kong.

A cardboard box with treats hidden inside can be a great way to keep them occupied, once he has the hang of it, you can scrunch the treats up in paper before putting them in the box.

Have you tried getting him to play with a toy, istead of biting you? Ie. when he starts say 'no' offer a toy, if he mouths/bites it praise him, it may help him realise that he can play with toys instead of your limbs/clothes.

How do you feed him? Does he have to sit nicely and be calm/wait in order for you to put his food down for him? If not, doing this can help, not from any 'dominace' POV, it just helps instill some basic obedience commands, especially with a food-motivated dog, as for them, there is no better reward than a meal!

Simple things like this really helped me alot, but I don't think Buster is as bright as a goldie (bless him, he's a doughnut) so maybe others can suggest more 'brainwork' type activities to help keep him occupied.
Just to remind you again - stay calm, patient and don't allow yourself to get frustrated also don't forget to praise/reward him the moment he is doing something you want him to do.

Thanks again for your thoughts....all advice is always welcome.  For two days I have put into practice Jan Fennells methods...I know I know...I have read the comments.  I did read her book before I got Woody but when I found this site I started to re consider what I had read.   Well so far so good, we have had the best two days yet, this could be a fluke..maybe tomorrow will be a nightmare again but so far so good.  I have eated a cracker before feeding time (crazy, but it worked, the dog waited at the other side of the room until I put his bowl down!), I have ignored him  totally for the first five minutes whenever we have been reunited (even when I went for a shower), and so far its worked. Not one humping session, not one biting session.   Maybe tomorrow I will be eating these words xxx

Time outs aren't for an hour hun. :-)

When your puppy gets over- excited or starts to hump your leg, if an OFF! or NO! doesn't work then you take him and put him in a seperate room or behind a dog gate for 2 mins, you then let him back in, without making a fuss of him and just go and sit down or do what you were doing, if he does it again, then he is put out again for 2 minutes, continue to do it until he obeys your command, then you praise him, with a treat or a pat this is how they learn. The very most you should put a dog or pup in time out is for 10 mins.

If you do it for longer, the dog has forgotten completely why he is there, what made you put him there, the inital "help, I've been seperated from the people I love!", turns into frustration and then as you have found over excitement at being finally let back in with his family.

Keep going, but also remember to keep the breeder in mind to give you that kick start, it's no different to you having a holiday for a week or two and your dog going to stay somewhere, if she is a good breeder which she sounds she will be the best port of call.

I agree, any time out is for a very short time and it should be instructive (ie a consequence of biting/humping) and a consequence. If you use this, you also have to do 2 other things - ensure there is total consistenly within the family, and also ensure the dog understands what you DO want him to do :)

Agree with the advice suggesting APDT, I'd also suggest APBC http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/index in  case of needing a behaviourist. Either would be helpful ... I'd be very careful with the taking things out of his mouth or being too concerned re. him doing this, because (as I have also experiened in the past!) it's all too easy to make a dog either get a "fetish" for certain items such as socks, or else make them guardy.

They learn what we teach them, so if we show great fuss/excitement over say, a sock or tissue, the dog will be more certain this item is very important within the family group and highly prized!

This advice may be useful, click on "adolescence" http://www.apdt.co.uk/dog_training_tips.asp and this site is excellent too for general hints and tips: http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-dogs-learn/ by ex police dog handler who is now a clinical behaviourist :)

His nature is to have things in his mouth also, so often you will find that using a distraction or a reward, such as a wiggling tuggie, you can get him to behave much better. A "good manners" type class would also be very useful and lots of fun!

Something else (sorry if it's already been mentioned and I've missed it) is to consider his diet and any extras  - watch out for additives, sugars, etc as these can have an affect on behaviour.
Good luck!

Lindsay
x

Thanks Carrington and Lindsay...this is a dog that will ANYTHING for attention and I can see that now.   Today has been good...no humping / biting.. lots of laying down at feet and I have been able to get his attention immediately and change his mindset.
I feel a bit crazy eating something before I serve his food and today it was Dairy Milk...not good for calorie counting!  But is the proof in the pudding...perhaps its coincidence but he is definately better behaved...ignoring him when I come in is working....perhaps I just feel more confident and its showing.
x

> They learn what we teach them, so if we show great fuss/excitement over say, a sock or tissue, the dog will be more certain this item is very important within the family group and highly prized!
>
>

Oh I so wish I'd known and really understood this years ago.
Sorry for jumping in but I've finally realised that staying calm is the greatest tool in dog [and children] training [and adults for that matter LOL].

Yes, kid and puppies are very similar....they love to wind you up!
I'm feeling smug at the moment because owning a dog is challenging but a pleasure today.....just like kids,  at their worst they bring you to tears....at their best you can't beleive how much you love them
x

Do try and get back to classes. So many people just do the basic foundation courses and miss the next stages.

A bright dog really requires you to be one step ahead at all times. The advantage of working towards your Kennel Club Good Citizen awards is that each week you'll have the opportunity to practise your existing skills and learn some new ones.  When you have a dog that is so demanding of your attention then it can be a big bonus to be able to redirect to something useful.

When your lad is getting silly, give him a 2-3 minute time out, gather your treats, get organised, then get him out in the garden or clear the living room for a few simple tasks.  He really wants you to notice him, so give him a chance to do something that pleases you.  Sit, stand, down, walking at heel, come.  All things that can be learnt quickly and practised often.  I used to do a few exercises every time I made a cup of tea and my lad soon learnt to come every time I put the kettle on.  He'd scuttle in with such joy that who could resist :)

Have a look at the KC site, to see the details of Good Citizens and the types of exercises I'm talking about, here.  There are leaflets for Bronze, Silver and Gold.  Do try a visit a class to see how they operate and find a APD trainer you are happy with.  Most classes are thrilled to have GR's in there, they often use them as demo dogs and they always make the trainers and their owners look very good indeed!!

Your right dogs a babe...we have done the basic Good Citizen puppy course,  going to make enqs about the next stage.   He has been loads better the last few days....only one or two incidents where by I have just walked off as advised, not shouted or even spoke to him. I think he might be getting the message!

Yay!!!!! As someone who has experienced a very naughty Goldie pup myself I am so thrilled that things are working for you!! Just remember, this breed is usually so dependent on it's humans, they can be turned around pretty quickly. It seems that the ignoring part is starting to work... when you have this off to a tee (don't forget about the children doing this too!!) ANY time he puts his mouth or teeth on you, it's a short sharp "Oi" or "Ah" accompanied by a stare, and he should get the message.

As with anything just being their young naughty self, don't forget to praise him the minute he does anything remotely good. Like you've said, it's been such a nice thing having him behave. We very often get bogged down with all the bad things they are doing and forget that sometimes they do get it right. When he does something good, praise (calmly) and give a treat (or maybe even a smile and a stroke), and in no time he'll realise that he gets nice things when he's trying to please you and ignored when he's playing up.

I can't tell you how happy reading your posts has made me... what little monsters they can be sometimes!!!

Feel free to PM me if I can be any further help... keep up the good work you're doing a grand job!
Tanya

Your story took me back a couple of years!   I remember my own Goldie when he was but a few months old and how very desperate I felt then!   Until he was about 5 or 6 months old, I hoped that someone would ask me if they could take him away!   Oh how hard it was!   I was certain he hated me.   He jumped at me, he bit me, he didnt want to be with me, he ran away from me in the park.   He never destroyed anything though.
With hindsight (isnt hindsight wonderful!?) I realise now that there were a few issues that were causing this.   My previous retriever had died just a few months previously aged 15 and I wasnt over that.   My Winston had been a perfect gentleman and most perfectly mannered from puppyhood.   Looking back now, I think that I found it hard to bond with my new puppy and Im certain he knew it.   He also became overtired (just like a baby) and it was when he was tired that he was most agressive towards me.   I didnt like him and I dont think he liked me much.
However, when I understood the issues, I softened towards him and he did to me too.   I realised that he was just a baby - a very pretty baby dog who had been taken from his mum and siblings.   He was a baby and he didnt know any better and here was I, an adult who should have understood him better and I hadnt.
And so, the story of my beautiful and clever (now almost three year old) Sherlock changed almost completely.   I began spending more quality time with him, playing special games with him, teaching him different things, scratching his soft fluffy tummy.  I taught him tricks, hid things for him to find, taught him lots of new words.  He wanted to learn, he was eager to please me and he quite quicly changed towards me as I had towards him.  He isnt my first Goldie and I have had other dogs too but he is one of the cleverest dogs Ive known and he has this great sense of humour and when he makes me laugh as he almost always does, his beautiful fluffy tail just cant stop wagging with pleasure!
This ode to my lovely dog Sherlock is where once we just didnt have a connection, we now have the strongest connection ever and he is MY dog.   He follows me about, he watches my every move and he absolutely adores me as I do him.
So Id say, be kind and patient and treat him gently and be aware that he is still only a baby.   He wants your attention just like a young child does - he must find life a little bewildering sometimes too.
I wish you the same joy and pleasure that my own Sherlock gives me.   Its the most wonderful feeling.

So pleased things are going well for you, long may they continue.

Michelleb, what a lovely honest post, with some good points. Sherlock sounds a lovely boy, and like Woody very clever. I do think the ones that are VERY hard work as babies, turn into the most wonderful and rewarding companions.

Hi Goldiemad and Michelleb,
Thanks for posting...

When I read your posts its like its all so simple...a moment of clarity where I think hey I'm the human, I'm in control.  But then our moments of madness starts again (ten minutes ago)  when Woody clung himself to my leg, humping and biting my jumper, and I'm fed up again.  Ok, yes he is better on the whole,, much less biting and humping and behaving perfectly with food and no growling if I take a toy off him anymore..result!
However.....he still seems really tense and excitable when in the lounge...he may lie down on command (for food of course) but its a tense lying down, almost as if he is ready to pounce...I just can't relax either because he won't let me sit on the couch!!  He just goes mad if I sit down, jumping and barking (this is new). I can control him but only with food...is this the right thing to do??  Constant treats as a reward for behaving???   Any other ideas to make him relax when he goes in the lounge with us in the evening?? (ps - I've walked him first, makes no difference).

just a quick thought - have you tried keeping him on a lead in the lounge?  Maybe even taking him in there and doing some training etc at different times of the day and night.  He may associate this time as when he'll be ignored so will do anything for attention.  Could you increase the times you're in there with him and change activities so he doesn't associate your lounge with 'I've got to go really mad to get attention in here'  Is he crate trained?  If so you could also maybe take it in there for nnow whilst he learns to settle.
> I just can't relax either because he won't let me sit on the couch!! 

This bit is worrying - it's up to you to sit where you like.  What you could do is keep him on the lead and practice sitting on your couch and reward him for being good even if only for a veryshort time.

Hi Heidi2006

I have started taking him on there on a long lead and yes the clever dog knows and is perfectly behaved!!  Its not easy trying to train a pup when everyone else in the family is tutting and sighing trying to watch movies and your wrestling on the floor  with a pup! 
Its a good idea with the crate...he is crate trained, definately worth a try..I'll let you know how it goes.

masonsmum - I can envisage this - poor you.

> Its not easy trying to train a pup when everyone else in the family is tutting and sighing trying to watch movies and your wrestling on the floor  with a pup! 
>

Maybe try training your family first - are they crate trained LOL  Sounds like you need a break and support.
Please do let us know how you're doing.

The important thing is you ARE making progress.

Although exercise is important, obviously at this age you are only taking him a short distance, and this will not tire him out. Evenings when everyone is tired and expecting to put their feet up and watch TV is not the best time to teach him to settle quietly in a room. During the day when you are on your own, try giving him a real mental workout, teach him as many different tricks as you can think, as his little mind needs to be kept busy busy busy. Once you are done, introduce a catch phrase "OK finished" or something similar, then go and put the kettle on. Take him into the garden, then you know he doesn't need to relieve himself, then go back inside and make a well earned cup of tea. Let him follow you into the lounge, all the time ignoring him. Hopefully he will settle down for a snooze. Should he start barking, totally ignore him and pretend he isn't really there, he is barking to get your attention. Hopefully once he realises you are not responding to him he will give up and settle down for a nap. If he starts to mouth you, or be a real pain, get up and calmly leave the room. Don't acknowledge him at all, mooch around a little bit then go back and sit down. Hopefully after a few repetitions, he will realise that if he gets silly, you distance yourself from him. It is so important that you don't acknowledge him, or he is getting a reward for being a pest.

I would avoid playing with him in the lounge, you want him to learn that the lounge is for calm time with his family.

The idea of a crate is a good idea, as is keeping him on a line, but he also needs to learn some self control and that he can't always get what he wants. In reality when he stands in front of you barking and you react to him, he is getting just what he wants, attention. By doing the above whilst the family are not in the house, it will be easier for you to ignore him. The more you practice getting him to settle in the lounge during the day, the more quickly he will realise that the lounge is not a place for high jinks and that he only gets to spend time in there if he is quiet and calm.

With regard to using treats, there is a fine line between using them to reward a behaviour and bribing him to behave. If he is food orrientated, he could be learning that it is in his best interests to keep pestering you, as each time you ask him to do something, he gets a nice treat. The treats must be on your terms, when you have decided to ask him for a behaviour. Not when he demands you interact with him.

Good luck, you sound like you are doing fine.

It is probably worth doing some training with him, mental stimulation seems to tire my two out, I think it is the concentration.  Rewarding with food for good behaviour does work, but try to limit the amount of food that you are giving him, initially it's ok to reward them with a treat each time they respond positively, then start to use praise telling him he is a good boy, and reduce the rewards to maybe every 3rd or 4th time, this way he won't expect it every time and hopefully will continue to do well until he gets his treat - then it becomes second nature to do as you ask :)  Alos try to find a training class that you both enjoy, you will reap the benefits!

Thanks everyone....masonsmum, the family don't listen to me either!

Goldiemad, cheers,  your right about not making the lounge a time for play, I don't let the kids play in there either so why should the dog!  Perry, I have started doing the every 3rd time for a treat and I think its a great idea...the dogs not sure if he is going to get a treat but answers to commands anyway just in case..genius!

I know this may sound crazy but sometimes I feel sorry for my dog...I need to get over these guilt feelings.   I feel anxious when he is in the garden on his own...he just sits at the patio doors waiting for me to let him back in despite having a huge secure garden to run around in...I end up letting him back in after 5 minutes. I know this sounds pathetic but he looks so lonely out there...

>I end up letting him back in after 5 minutes.

He's probably bored - a large garden is all very well but if he's not getting any interaction it might as well be a tiny yard. If you go  out with him and throw a ball for him he'd have more fun and you needn't be anxious about him. :-)

Hi Jeangenie,

I do that too...and I do spend time outside with him anyway...I just meant if I need to jobs for half an hour, mop the floors etc...what I'm trying to say is that perhaps I am trying too hard to make the dog happy and leaving him outside for half an hour on his own once a day causes me to feel bad...

> leaving him outside for half an hour on his own once a day causes me to feel bad...

Think about it another way your teaching him how to cope and be happy in his own company, something vital for the occasions you can't be with your dog.

So many people have dogs over reliant on their owners, it makes the owners in many cases feel good, but is not good for the dog.