Hi all , i am in need of urgent help , i will try to cut a long story really short so please bear with me. My husband and i have owned our 4 gsds's aged from 5 to 1 since they were puppies , my husband did all the training with the dogs , we both walked them together but he did all the training and socialising. My husband also did teh feeding and any discipline (never smacking) , all dogs have lived in harmony with us and each other.

However , sadly my husband passed away in Aug 09 , leaving me with 2 teenage children and the 4 dogs , the problems started quite quickly after my husband died and i am now in despair and becoming quite depressed.

Basically , i don't seem to have any control over the dogs what so ever , they go crazy if anybody tries to come in to the house , they used to quiet when my husband asked but they just ignore me , they have had a few minor scuffles between them (nothing serious). Taking them out is a nightmare as they don't come back straight away or if they find something more interesting , yesterday one went missing for half an hour and all i could do was sit in the middle of the woods and sob. They just don't seem to care what i want/say since my husband has been gone. My children can't have visitors over at the mo unless i shut the dogs in the garden as they go crazy when a visitor comes in. I really don't know what to do , rehoming is not an option , these dogs were my husbands pride and joy , i think he would be so disappointed in me allowing this to happen and i really don't know what to do. I could go to class but can only take one at a time , should i try this??

I don't seem to have any structure to their day anymore , everything used to be so calm and lovely before he passed away but now it seems like a free for all , i cry myself to sleep every nigt over the stress of it all. The youngest has become quite destructive since my husband died and i can't leave him without him eating something.
I am desperate for help and feel like i am failing miserably. Mel x

I'm so sorry for your loss. Your dogs will be pining for your husband, and until they settle and realise that he is not coming back you are going to have a few problems until the boundaries are reset. Until then I think that your teenage children should help out. Not an easy thing to do as they will also be missing their dad, and the dogs will be reminding them of their loss. Start by making notes of what your husband used to do (ie when they were fed, walked, groomed, etc) and the times he did these things. You will then need to decide how you can rearrange you lifestyle around them, or how they will fit into your new way. Everything will be strange, both to the dogs and to you. It is going to take time, I'm afraid, but things will settle down. Find a schedule that works for you, and stick to it. Dogs like structure, they are like children in that they need boundaries.

Have you spoken to anyone about your depression? The dogs will be picking up on your mood, and if they are playing up it will seem like you are climbing a mountain, not stepping over a molehill. As to your children having friends over, is your house large nough for crates? This might be worth looking into, evcen if it is only a temporary thing.

Your life has been turned upside down, so has your dogs, I'm so sorry for your loss.

GSD's often have that one authority figure it is part of their breed trait, without their master which is what your husband was they may have a tendancy to become more pack orientated, which is probably why you have had the odd scuffle, and why they are taking no notice of you, they are relying on one another now, and using their natural instincts to guard their territory also. It is always a good idea especially with the more guarding orientated breeds to not just have the one person do all the training and socialising and give all the commands as has happened, as it is near on impossible now for you to come in as the authority figure.

Your vulnerable and upset right now and obviously depressed, which won't help the situation at all.  ((((Big Hug))))

What you need is to take command you can't do this without help, the first thing I would do in your situation is begin to take the dogs one at a time to a basic training class, you will have support for yourself and the dogs to establish yourself here, it will give you confidence, you will make friends and have help, once you have gone through the basics (you don't need to go for long :-) ) the dogs will begin to look to you more as the authority figure, from there on you will need to do one on one sessions with each dog, just as your husband did to start with, this is how we install ourselves as their friend and carer and how we get obediance, you'll need to start from scratch, but without as much hard work as doing it from a puppy, the dogs are already trained by your husband, he's done the hardest part, now you just need them to accept you and the change.

The only thing I will say, I know your husband loved his dogs, I know they are a part of him, but he is gone now, if you can't cope with 4 dogs then your husband would understand, I guess he would hate to see you so low and upset, do what is best for you and your children, your children need you more.

Good luck, if you can afford it, you could always find a reputable trainer to come and work with you too, it won't take too long to establish yourself, but it will take a little hard work to begin with.

All the best. :-)

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said their structure had gone from their lives. They say dogs live in the present and do not exist in the past so maybe after this time they have moved on while you are quite rightly still overwhelmed by the loss of your husband. I am sure they are picking up on your sorrow and depression and using it to their advantage. They are like a class of 5 year olds left without a teacher. You are their teacher now, the one who feeds them, makes the rules etc.

Your husband would not be disappointed in you at all, 4 large dogs and two teenagers are a lot for you to be left with. I would not relish it at all. Are your children of an age to help you? I admit my first thought was rehoming, maybe keeping a couple. Your husband would not want you to be miserable and struggling thats for sure, he will understand every decision you make.
Not what you want to do I know and I know that they are a link to him that you do not want to break. All really understandable.

Thank you all for your replies , i think today is just a bad day ,i am feeling much older and frailer than 37 ! i was much more positive yesterday until the youngest bogged off and wouldn't come back that i forget the good things that happened , the other 3 came back immediately so i should stop focussing on the negatives. Yes my children ( 13 & 15) do help to their best ability but i do not want them restricting their lives to help with the dogs , they have only just started to see friends again and i want that to continue.

I think i need an action plan and i will start doing some one to one training too , i just spent 10 mins with Saxon the oldest just remembering how to do down stays and recall etc and he was amazing , i feel slighly better after that but still feeling very overwhelmed.

As for my depression i am on meds now and am starting to feel stronger but know i have a long way to go.

Hats off to you, mel4gsd, you are coping with some of the very biggest challenges life can ever throw at us all at the same time, so don't be hard on yourself. Just remember that your children might be glad to help out from time to time with the dogs, although if they are anything like mine they would never dream of out and out saying so :-).

Your dogs sound like they respond well to having a job to do--that one to one training will tire them out more than arguing with each other and also  build their relationship with you as the pack leader they have been missing.

Hope your days just get better from now on. Set yourself some small steps instead of the giant strides you're taking, and don't forget to make room for people to help you...you might not believe it, but anyone coping with all that you are is going to come across as a very strong person indeed. All that strength on the outside might be telling people you can manage fine without help, just when you could do with it for a while. Big hugs!

I am so sorry for your loss and am glad you seem far more positive today. I agree with what others have said about taking them to training classes, even if you have to do this on a rota system. I am sure if you let us know where abouts you live, someone would be able to recommend a good training class near to you, alternatively have a look at the apdt website.

IMHO I would not be exercising all four together, as their life has been turned upside down at the moment, and it is possible that they might behave quite out of character towards people/dogs etc that they meet. Your husband obviously had very good control over the dogs, and I hope one day you will find that the dogs listen to you as they did your husband, but this will take time. In the short term I would definitely take at the most two out at a time, even if it means that they only get exercised on alternate days. Mental stimulation is very tiring, and will tire them out far more than exercise, perhaps the kids could help out by teaching them simple tricks, or just running them through their paces with exercises they know.

I really wish you the best of luck, GSD's are a special breed, but they are very sensitive and I bet they are in a real turmoil at the moment.

It sounds like you are already doing a great job and please don't feel that your husband would be disappointed in you. 

You are going to have down days and when you do try your best to think of one thing each dog and child did that day or the day before that made you smile...and continue thinking that way.  I honestly believe positive thought bring positive actions.

It sounds as though you now need to start putting more structure into your household.  These I am sure will even make you feel better.

Maybe you can start by having a new morning routine, something simple like letting all the dogs out in the garden first thing but then popping back out with one or 2 at a time for a 5 minute game of fetch.  You may already do this but make them do a simple task like waiting for their breakfast before you give them the go ahead to eat from their bowls.

I would now walk 1 at a time or 2 together (depending on what they walk like).  Don't push yourself to walk all 4 together as this is a task and a half for one person!  Let one dog off lead at a time and if you only have the one dog with you then take a toy and play fetch on the walk.  Take treats and practice your recalls and heelwork.

Obviously we don't know your daytime routine but do you have 10 mins twice each day that you can pay sole attention to each dog individually.  In this 10 mins twice a day you can start getting your dogs focusing on you by having short fun training sessions.  Within a week or 2 you will notice a huge improvement on their focus.

We have owned GSD's for over 25 yrs and they are fantastic dogs, they do tend to bond extremely well with one person but they do like all their family together.  You just need to give them the new structure and they will be much more settled for it.

Good luck and remember to take time out for yourself x

I have nothing to add.
Just wanted to send you good wishes and wish you luck with the dogs.

I too having nothing to add but send my thoughts and best wishes as you learn to cope with the things life has thrown at you x

I would add as the children are teenage then include them in the retraining of the dog, ti will spread the load and give you something to do together.  with the dogs having been so important to your husband it will also be a way for them to feel close to him and you.

I'm so sorry for your loss Mel4gsd. I think you are doing a great job looking after these dogs. I wonder if the problem with the dog 'bogging off'  has more to do with his age? If he is just one then he might be pushing the boundaries a bit as he is really just maturing I would think. Maybe this is what is causing the scuffles too. This might have happened even with your husband there remember so don't blame yourself. Can you remember what your husband did as each of the others reached maturity to limit any problems amongst the older dogs?

I'm sure once you start to feel better things will be better but well done for coping so far {hug}. Your husband obviously did a fabulous job training the dogs as the older ones are obviously so well trained, the one year old was a work in progress and I'm sure, with a bit of help you will do a great job with him too.

I wanted to add my condolenses at what is such a hard time for you and your children. I can only imagine how overwhelming everything must be for you, especially with a pack of large dogs escallating what is already a very stressful time for you right now.

I wholeheartedly agree that individual training will undoubtedly make life much more manageable in the long run. As others have said, tiny, baby steps for you right now. Ty not to get bogged down in the whole picture with the dogs, think about one small thing at a time to achieve, don't forget all those little things add up over time.

I understand how you feel your husband might be unhappy that you didn't keep all 4 dogs, but at the same time, would he be happy seeing how utterly overwhelming they are making you feel at the moment? Do you feel that in time it would have been the right decision to keep all 4?

I wish you and your children a better year this year, goodness knows you deserve it ((HUGS)) to you!!

Tanya

I am so so sorry for your loss, my heart goes out to you and the children.

Hope things work out with the dogs x

Hi Mel,

I'm pulling up a chair in the Champdogs kitchen, and Kettle's on for a gert big mug of Hot chocolate!! So come sit down and take the weight off Missus!!
    I'm soo sorry to hear you're having such a rough ride of it at present,it gets to the stage doesn't it when even the silliest smallest things even, will wear you down and leave you exhausted... (((( Big Hug ))))
    With regard to your dogs I would strongly suggest that brought in an accredited behaviourist. There are a lot of Charaltans out there charging ridiculous money so I'm putting a link here (in blue) to the Asociation of Pet Dog trainers (APDT uk)
    Even those of us who have lived with/ bred/ and or worked dogs for many years think nothing of bringing in outside help from time to time (wisely) because, to my mind, The big benefit of this is that you have an educated eye watching what you and your dogs are doing 'real time' and they will always spot the subtle or the big things that you (or the dogs) are doing wrong (but also... great confidence booster..what your doing right!) It's good to have a second set of eyes to observe the things that maybe you miss.
      I really think this would be your best bet. I last used an APDT trainer about 5 years ago and paid no more than £20 per hour session (and she gave me mountains of hand-outs, homework, reading material etc, was always on the end of a phone and still is!! and I never had an hour she always stayed longer, and accompanied us on walks etc) so you don't have to pay through the nose for a good result, as you see cost is no indicator (the charlatans are generally the most expensive!) being accredited by an organisation that promotes only 'positive' reward based training is however!
      From what you have said of your dogs I really don't think it will take long to turn the dogs around and get the manners and respect and peace and quiet back! You hit part of the nail on the head here when you say:

>I don't seem to have any structure to their day anymore<

You have commented that the dogs never needed a heavy hand by your husband, so this again is positive they respected the calm in control and consistent direction and companionship he gave them, so you too can come to be this in their eyes and with a good trainer/behaviourist you can turn this around!! and how much nicer for you all things will be.
     I wish you the very best of luck, keep us posted won't you... and there's plenty more Hot chocolate here if things get too much again xxx

Hi, Well done so far....what a challenge at a difficult time.  What support and encouraging words other users have offered,  and I could not match any of the advice given.   I have however had a very difficult loss recently and that is why I feel I wanted to say hi and best wishes to you and your children.  The dog problem is solvable and I'm sure once you have got the routine and behaviour sorted out your dogs will be a great comfort and help your healing.
xx

Thank you all so so very much for your kind words of support and encouragement . I took the bull by the horns today , when i couldn't sleep in the middle of the night i grabbed a pen and pad and tried to remember every thing that Rob did with the dogs , surprisingly when i concentrated it all came back quite clearly , so i tried my bloody hardest today to stick to a similar routine and my dogs have made me so proud.

Got up at 5.30 and took out oldest and youngest (naughtiest) to the woods , they went off lead in an enclosed area , both were fantastic , met other dogs no problems and came back when called , got home and took other 2 out , same thing. Rob used to take out all 3 older ones and then baby on his own but i decided to do it slightly differently. Put them back on raw meat/bones today , i have had them on biscuits since he has been gone but decided to put them back on raw and not be sucha big girl about it!. They were happy and ate every scrap.

This evening i took the 2 oldest for a 15 min lead walk , luckily the 3 older ones walk beautifully (i can't take any credit for this). I remember that when our others were going through the naughty phase at about 1 yr old Rob used to attach them to a really long lead and take them out the front on the green to practice recall , he used liver , so i did this with naughty 1 yr old Max , i wasn't quite brave enough today to let go of the training lead but he was an angel and even ignored a passing cat, with some encouragement from me waving liver in the air!.
So , today was a good day for me and i owe a lot of it to you people that don't even know me for offering words of encouragement and for understanding that i can't part with any of these dogs , they were Robs life and so now they are mine , i love every long black and tan hair on their heads and wouldn't be without them.
Thank you all once again , i have a mountain to climb but have definitely started climbing today. I am going to enlist the help of a trainer to come to my home and just watch what i am doing to make sure i am not making the situation worse for them. Onwards and upwards x

Newpup , i am so sorry to hear you have suffered a loss , thank you for your kind words and please accept a hug from me x

On a more negative note (that didn't take long did it!) , i had a rather vile personal message from someone on here asking why i didn't see fit to sort the dogs out before my husband passed away , i wasn't going to bother rising to it but just wanted to say that at no point on the 12th August 09 did i expect my beautiful , healthy 36 year old husband to go to work and never come home again. Rob was not ill , i did not have any warning that on that day somebody would crash into his car and kill him so therefore i had no time to sort my dogs out , as you so politely put it. Before that day my life was as near perfect as i could ever have wished for. I know he was the main carer of the dogs and i was just the cuddler but it worked for us and now i am having to learn lots of things that i took for granted , that is why i have asked for help. You may find it strange asking for help from a bunch of strangers but sometimes it is easier to ask help from those that don't want to wrap you up in cotton wool , Rob used to look at this forum which is why i came here for help , i have been given sound advice with lots of encouragement and support and a small virtual kick up the bum which i needed , So whoever you are and for whatever reason you felt the need to send me that message - I hope you never have to experience the pain that myself , children and extended family have felt this last 6 months. I WILL sort my dogs out and will make sure they are as happy as they were before their daddy left us , they will stay with me , i will not let them down.

Its a good job i believe in Karma - rant over x

I am so sorry someone has stooped as low as this. You are doing a marvelous job and have my utmost respect. Please don't let one insensitive idiot upset you in any way. Please report them to a Moderator as IMHO they should be banned from the forum.
Jenny

Hi mel4gsd, someone will be suffering from a seriously bad case of hoof in mouth disease at the very least, now that you have enlightened him/her, and don't forget there are far more people on here ready with the virtual pot of tea (will remember this HuskyGal, it made me smile), encouragement, practical suggestions and quite a few good laughs just when you could do with one :-). It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job meeting the household's needs, but don't forget to value some down time and a feet-up policy for yourself.

That is awful, how can someone be so cruel, hugz to u x

That is awful, how can someone be so cruel, hugz to u x

I think you should report the PM to admin, ti is totally unacceptable, and I cannot imagine how anyone could have said such awful things in your situation (( am sure this would be against the Terms of Service).

There are lots of people on here more than happy to support you.  Your posts have brought tears to my eyes.

Please please feel free to lean on these strangers who do care for all the help you might find or need.

Mel, there are all sorts of people out there. The majority on here are good, kind, helpful, decent, loving people. Unfortunately, as in 'real' life, there are those who open their mouths (or let their fingers do the talking) before they realise it. You have come to us in the hope that there are people who understand where you are sitting, and the majority of us do. I went through a nasty separation and had to deal with my dogs by myself, so kind of understand the feeling of what to do next. Obviously not as abrupt as your sudden loss, but I, and many on here, do understand the feeling of bewilderment. This person should be feeling bad about themselves now, if they don't then they don't belong on a decent forum like this.

You are doing a good job. Just asking for help was the first step. You admitted to yourself you needed help and advice. Good for you. It won't take too long, by the sounds of it, before you will all be able to relax and enjoy one another again.

Give the dogs a big hug. You all need it. :-)

So sorry for your loss.  To me the fact that your a re able to come on here and express your problems so soon is a great sign.  You are already taking control.  You, your children and YOUR dogs will also be going through grief.  Grief takes many forms almost all ovf them emotional and one of the hardest things is to accept that yu can't always be calm, collected, in control and just totally perfect. 
I'm sure these dogs mean so much to you for all sorts of reasons, at the moment most of them emotional. My advice [now getting ready for a slating] is to treat them like animals.  Make sure they are watered, fed well, exercised - mentally as well as physically and have appropriate health-care.  If you can do all this for a period of time you can develop any other relationship with them at your leisure though you may find it develops naturally.
As a single parent [of dogs and kids] I know the temptation of trying to be all things to all people/dogs/rabbits... and I certainly felt so sorry for my kids too that I didn't put enough responsibility on them. Maybe asking your teenage children to join in and share the joy as well as responsibility of dog ownership [and being part of a family] could help them too.
Try writing down your priorities and discussing this with your children.  If they can come up with ideas to help that would be even better - they would feel useful.
Don't forget you aren't 2 people and you don't need to be.

Mel,

I am so sorry you have been subjected to such crass insensitivity! I am astounded anyone could chastise based on wild assumption and little fact.
  Absolutely echo my fellow Cd'ers that you ought to report this message to ADMIN. Especially if this member did not even have the good grace or 'Forum spirit' to offer any constructive advice? (was it just a dressing down message or did they at least offer anything of help/advice??) personally I think If the member was just offering criticism and nothing else that's an absolute breach of TOS of this forum to my mind! If they offered constructive advice with insensitive assumption then they were crass if no advice was given then they were cruel!!!

anyyyyyway.....

Lets not detract from this:

>I took the bull by the horns today , when i couldn't sleep in the middle of the night i grabbed a pen and pad and tried to remember every thing that Rob did with the dogs , surprisingly when i concentrated it all came back quite clearly , so i tried my bloody hardest today to stick to a similar routine and my dogs have made me so proud.<

Whoooop!!!
Good for you Girl! That's the spirit.
Very best wishes from me and extra marshmallow on that Hot Chocolate ;-) Keep at it, you'r doing great xx

Didn't read all the messages Sorry - I too cannot believe anyone would chastise you.  The fact that it was a PM shows they are not worthy of thinking about.  Just bullying tactics hiding behind anonymity.  It's they that have the problem - not you.
keep up the good work and an extra few marshmallows from me too.

Hi honey - I've just made you a cup of tea, and you're welcome to a biscuit too if you fancy it xxx

My first thought is to offer you my sympathy for the terrible situation you've found yourself in but my over riding emotion when I read your messages is that of admiration.  What an amazing woman you are.  To be able to write with such candour, and good humour, about your circumstances and that horrible PM you received, fills me with humility.  I'm not sure I'd be so brave.  Well done you

Do you have family or friends that can 'borrow' or look after one of the dogs from time to time?  You've had a good day today and there will be other good days too but I'm sure your successes will fluctuate according to your emotions and you may find it a bit of a rollercoaster ride for a while.  If you had someone that would take a dog from time to time it might just help ease the pressure on you.  You're not giving them away, or giving in but just giving yourself the chance to get on top of your dog management and training and accepting some help with the dog walking :)

Sending you lots of positive thoughts and hoping you have many more 'good dog' days.

Thank you all so much ladies , i will happily accept any offers of hot choc, marshmallows , tea and biccies. You have all given great advice , i don't know how to quote other people so bear with me.

As for the PM it was deleted and is now forgotten , it was sadly just an abusive message asking why i was being so pathetic but i am not going to dwell on it , i have other battles to fight , the one at the mo is the 4 hairy beasts.

As for allowing a friend/family member to look after a dog or two , yes there have been offers but this is something i simply can't do at the mo , very selfish i know but since Rob left i have an issue with letting them out of my sight , i have been doing it with the kids too but after a dressing down from my mum i have tried very hard to allow them some freedom. I know this is something i have to work on but at the mo its not going to happen. Today was a good day , tomorrow may not be but i think i am on the right track .

I am most concerned about the youngest , now just turned a year (last week) was only a baby when Rob died , i know he had worked on the basics and his golden rule was 'if you teach nothing at all , teach a recall'. so i am almost starting from scratch with him as he seems to have forgotten most things , although his recall was good today on the long lead. Should i train him seperately from the others? another question i have is should i have him castrated? The other 2 boys are entire , my girl is spayed , not sure what i should do with this one? Rob was very much a kind of ' if it aint broke don't fix it' person , we only had the girl done just in case of an accident. What are your thoughts?
He is also being very bossy , this evening while i was sorting out carcases , i asked them all to sit before i put the bowls down and 3 did it and so i put their bowls down , Max decided he was going to jump up and grab it out of my hand and run into the garden with it , i didn't really know what to do, is this his age or does he just not relate to me in the way he did Rob? x

> i didn't really know what to do, is this his age or does he just not relate to me in the way he did Rob?

Bit of both ;-)
Right so now you're drowning in offers of cuppas I've got some reading for you! I'm linking articles from some of the most respected (Internationally) dog trainers in and out of the dog world.

The first article is by (the very lovely) Turid Rugaas Scroll down to the paragraph entitled 'when the dog is slamming doors' Turid describes the dogs adolescence or as we lovingly call it "The Kevin the teenager stage!"

The next link is to a clicker training site, but many fantastic articles by Karen Pryor (if she can train killer whales and dolphins recall then I'm listening to her ;-) ) and Dr.Ian Dunbar (Often brought out on BBC News as resident dog expert opinion) at this stage of the game don't worry about clicker training but do pay attention to the principles of 'setting your dog up to succeed' by making the right decisions and desired behaviour its self. again scroll down to the articles under re-call and other behaviours you are seeing in your young 'un and others.
Clicker solutions Articles

If you like the look of these training methods then take the ethos but I still strongly suggest you get help and have an APDT trainer explain and demo and watch you and also assess you and the dogs.
    There are some very experienced in practical and researching of training method Members here, look out for Lindsay and Theemx in particular for good solid and accurate advice.

Don't beat yourself up about not wanting to off load the dogs to other for respite, I actually think your doing the best thing now which is establishing a routine again for them and some calm order :-) Dogs like routine and structure (Much like teenagers, give em an inch and they take a mile and with no boundaries they just run wild!) Also with training it's use it or loose it! so keeping on top of it makes thing less of a struggle in the long run.
       You've let go of the helm for a while and that's totally understandable (I doubt I could keep things as together as you have!!) But now your back and it really wont take long it you stick at it, already your seeing a difference arn't you in just a few days of structure.

Hope this helps? your doing grand :-D

it's his age.  Don't give any of them food til they've all sat and waited - he'll soon learn - power of the pack.  Unfortunately you've got a doggie teenager on your hands too. persist with your rules as calmly as you can and he'll 'get it eventually.  If things go wrong accept it and try again next time - non of us is perfect.

So terribly sorry for your tragic loss,and cannot believe someone could be so cruel as to p.m you.
You are very brave and i hold my hat off to you for trying your very best with four very much loved dogs,as well as two children.
You will get all the help you deserve from the good people on here,who are here rain or shine from dawn till dusk.
Keep your chin up and you will sort it out.

Jonelle

if your little guy is barely a year old he's got some growing up to do, mentally and physically, so castrating him anytime soon doesn't sound either necessary or a good idea, but then I am of your husband's persuasion when it comes to this. I have three dogs and the youngest is just 6 months old and a holy terror at times. He's very independent minded, very clever and tests boundaries all the time so that there are times when I want to bang my head against the wall. I suspect the two older dogs, who are just youngsters themselves, also would like to put him in his place.

I had a similar issue the other week with all three crowding into a very narrow kitchen, exactly like kids on the "what is there to eat" trip, and I decided I wasn't going to take it anymore. Rather than go back to a familiar command, I sprang a new one on all of them: "shift", said in a very stern voice :-), a point to the kitchen door and a clear visual for sit. They were all a bit taken aback but willing to go along with a new game--and the star pupil is the puppy, who is good as gold at this now. Sometimes coming up with 'new' words isn't a bad idea.

I am sure there will be experts out there who can take a handful of dogs and teach them recall, but I can't and wouldn't try. Either take him on his own, or when you feel he might be ready without the long line, try taking one or two of the older guys on the lead, unclip the baby and take plenty of desirable treats in your pocket. I let our terror off the lead in the fields with the good boys on their leads, and as he dances about or runs off I emit the occasional embarrassing shriek 'come come come puppy'--he responds like a shot, even better than to the whistle. I fully expect him to regress to the Kevin stage in a few months, but in the meantime this works. After he has his 10 minutes or so, I clip the baby back on and let the older two have their time offlead. The baby is tired enough by then to take the edge off his energy and then he has to practice the heel command.

Others may have much better systems, I wouldn't say this is how to do it, only that it works with my gang and for me and it was a case of trying lots of different ways of working to come up with something we are all comfortable with.

I am going to try to restrict myself to these virtual biscuits in the hope of shedding a gram or two. Thanks for the idea! xxx

After reading this through, I'm totally in awe and very very impressed with you, Mel!
What you have on your hands at the moment, is more than most dog-people ever have. And at
a deeply tragic time as well. I'm so very sorry for your loss.

Based on my experiences from living with a pack for many years,
I would not separate the youngest from the rest. Young dogs take after
the older ones, and will learn good behaviour from them. My older dogs even
discipline my young ones when they misbehave.
I would make sure to have as much one-to-one time as possible with
the youngster, though. And try to give him as much socialisation on his own, as possible.

Good luck with everything,
Karen

Only just read your post and would like to say how sorry to hear of your loss of your husband. Reading your plight has brought tears to my eyes as I lost my sons father when he was 36 in 2006 a motorbike accident so know how distraught you are feeling. Big hug for coping with your family... kids & dogs.

Things will settle down and you will find the strength of mind to handle all what the dogs get up on a day to day basis. Some will be good others not so...

Your boy at his young age is just going to be more of a challenge for you in little ways, but the loyalty and devotion with be by the bucket load once you establish your new pack structure.
Sounds as if going back to their normal dinners and walking times has helped heaps..

I think your a marvel for digging in and getting on.

With much respect xoxoxo

I've no advice regarding the dogs behaviour (plenty of great advice given on that allready :) ), but just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss.

Taking over the care of 4 large dogs is no easy feat when they have been used to being cared for by your husband. I think, depsite the 'teething problems' you have had, you should be very proud of yourself.
I am the 'primary carer' for my dog (only one dog), my husband would really feel thrown in at the deep-end if he was left to look after the dog on his own and would find it very hard for a while.

I can't beleive somebody thought it apt to send you a nasty PM :( To whoever that was - I for one can not make sure my other-half could look after the dog without me, as it requires my absence to do that (me being in the house while my OH gives commnads is not the same as me being gone). I have no idea why somebody whould even think to say that to another human being who is allready trying to cope with massive emotional upheaval, it seems apparent that the person responsible knew they were being nasty or they would have posted it on the open forum.

Good on you mel for not feeling put off by that nasty individual. You show amazing inner strength and I'm sure you will make your husband proud of how you will take care of the dogs. From the way you talk of him and how he was with the dogs, he was the sort of owner we wish every dog owner would be and you'll be the same :)

With regards to your 1 year old GSD and the way he may sometimes behave it is most likely to be his age.  He would also probably act the same way if your husband was there teaching him but you may not have noticed.

I'm really glad you went and had a good day with the dogs...and remember if you have a down day think back and remember they were great only the other day.

As i've said we've had GSD's since I was a year old, i've never been without a couple in the house and they can go through more difficult stages especially when they are so young.

You'll probably find that the youngest boy will always have an extra special place in your heart because in a few years you'll be able to look back and say 'I trained him'.

Hang on in there love,
All of us are thinking of you especially fellow shepherdites.
Any work you have to put into the dogs now will be well worth it ,to have the love of a good shepherd is the stuff dreams are made of.
I have a very naughty little girl here coming up seven who has at times tried me to the limit I,ve cried many times and I,ve not suffered such an awful loss as you have with your d ear Rob. Its all been worth it and I know when the dreadful day comes and I don,t have her that she of all my dogs will be the one I miss the most because she is the one who takes all my time and effort .
Everyone on here is behind you take it one day at a time look after yourself and your kids the best you can those dogs will be your reason for getting up in the mornings and you will be so glad you have them when you are over this awful greiving period you will always have a part of Rob with you looking out for you  he,ll be watching your training and having a little smile to himself.

lots of love Sharon x 

I love GSD's dearly, having been born into a family with them, it is only now, 40 something years on and with various medical problems, that I now find myself without one. The only reason being, is that they all go through this difficult stage and I knew that I would not able to put the work in that is required to get through this stage. As one poster said, he would probably be behaving in exactly the same way if your husband was still at the helm. Take tiny steps at a time and I am sure you will get there. We are all behind you and if you have a bad day, let us know and we do our utmost to help you through it.

i have been so moved by your positive attitude at such a hard time, you are an inspiration to us all. sending you a huge hug!!!! :-)

I just wanted to say I can't beleive how amazing everyone is...so much fantastic advice...and here everyone is supporting and advising with such conviction and genuine concern....well done again Mel4GSD, hang in there, ps ..thankyou for your support
xx

Thank you all so very very much again from the bottom of my heart.

Husky gal , thank you for those fab links , especially the calming one , the name rang a bell so i had a look in Robs doggy library (he loved dog books) and we have a book by the same author about giving off calming signals, thank you again.

I have decided to start a new thread with whatever problems i come up against so that i can get some specific advice on a particular problem (mainly the one yr old thug).

Thankyou again , you truly are angels x

Again, I don't have anything to add on the training issues, but want to say that I'm soooo impressed that you're keeping yourself, the kids and the dogs together at a time when even the strongest of us would buckle.

I'm so sorry for your loss, and you must have bad days, but you're doing great!  I'm sure your husband would be very proud of you.  ((((((Hugs)))))

Thank you Paula , yes i have bad days and am sure i probably always will but i believe we will all be reunited in time and that keeps me going , thanks for your support x

> i have been so moved by your positive attitude at such a hard time, you are an inspiration to us all.

Agree, just also wanted to say how sorry i am for your loss xx

I too would like to offer my condolences.
Reading your posts have made me want to weep, then the next minute smile at something you have said.
You and your family, including your dogs, have been through such a devastating and emotional time, but reading your posts and seeing the determination and positive attitude that you possess I have no doubt that you will succeed.
I cannot offer advice about how to deal with your dogs as I dont feel I have the knowledge or experience but I can offer cyber tea and choccies, words of comfort when necessary and be someone to share in your triumphs.
As someone said you are an inspiration, you are in my thoughts.
jane

> mainly the one yr old thug).

I regularly refered to Zuma as The Hairy Hooligan at that age but they do improve with age, think about when the kids were young - you kept telling yourself 'its just a stage they're going thru, they will grow out of it !!!'
Thinking of you, Chris

What an incredible lady you are!:-) you are doing so well!
Oh I remember so well, that auful teenage stage! Ive never known another dog to go through it as bad as GSD's do, they truly are one of the most amazing breeds and even though she was such hard work, and still can be at 7, she is amazing and I can sit back and say I trained her all that hard work I put in really has paid off.:-)

I think you are amazing :)

This link may help, http://www.apdt.co.uk/dog_training_tips.asp check out "adolescents", and also this one http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/why-wont-my-dog-come-back/

Hth :)

Lindsay
x