Sorry folkes,cold effecting my brain.Need to catch the post this evening for a show I forgot to enter.However I have 2 puppies, one will be 8 months the other just 6 months.They will be going into AVNSC.However as I am working,O.H will be handling both,with may be a bit of help from daughter.If I enter the youngest in Puppy A.V.N.S.C,and the elder puppy in open,if by any miracle the youngest won her class and the elder one was placed in open,would they be able to go up against each other for best puppy AVNSC or would the eldest forgo this as I didn't enter her in puppy.I am thinking of pairs of hands for handling.Thanks Jude.

if i remember rightly a puppy entered in ANY breed age class will compete for best puppy, if unbeaten by any other puppy. so if one in open was placed 3rd, beaten by 2 adults, it will still be eligible for BP and will compete against other unbeaten pups

Thats what I thought but with hubby showing I wanted to be 100% sure and just wanted a few confirmations that I was correct - saves the cold shoulder when I get home from work.Jude x

Hi Jude, Hope you had a good christmas and new year. Which show is it?

Jude, just double check that it is not a "Special Puppy" award where only ubeaten puppies in specified classes can compete for group and BPIS awards.

I know that people have been caught out on a few occassions by this.

Yes The Puppy in AVNSC Open can compete for Best AVNSC Puppy so long as it isn't beaten by another puppy.

Hey Carol,hope you had a good Christmas.Its Central Cornwall.Phoned the secretary this morning and he will accept my late entry.Thought I was right about both pups going up agaist each other,but wanted to double check as there was a specific puppy class for AVNSC.Are you offering to handle on of the Eskies for me!!!!!
Not Spec puppy.
Jude x

I should be there so yes, think im handling a husky for Mel too so give me a shout. Only got one of my girls entered in NSC but Utilities are after terrier so will be free if needed.
See you soon.

My friend has 2 puppies running on from the same litter. In the absence of someone else to handle for her, she enters one in the puppy and the other in the next age group, or next available breed class, ie one in puppy and one in junior, or novice, grad etc.  Provided that the puppy in the non puppy class is not beaten by another puppy in that class, she has ended up with both puppies called back in for best puppy in breed.

Likewise at a Limit show where there was a BOB/BPIB the entries were taken from the breed class and the AV group classes provided un beaten by another puppy again..

Good luck

I think it doesn't even have to be placed, as long as no puppies were placed in Open, then it is still unbeaten by any puppies.

Thanks for your replies,I was pretty sure that was the case,but I have had a few judges and stewards that haven't even awarded BPIB just because there were no puppy classes.I have one or two disagreements including having a moan at the referree at SWW&P Champ show last year.Entry form sent.

> I think it doesn't even have to be placed, as long as no puppies were placed in Open, then it is still unbeaten by any puppies.

That's interesting - how would that work if there were 2 unplaced puppies in the non-puppy class (and no puppy placed) - are they both able to go back to challenge the puppy winner?

Yes, as either could be better than the puppy class winner.

> I think it doesn't even have to be placed, as long as no puppies were placed in Open, then it is still unbeaten by any puppies.

I am almost certain that if there is a puppy in a non puppy class that it does have to be placed before being able to challenge for Best Puppy. I have been trying to find it in the Red Book to be 100% sure.

No it doesn't as there could be five or more adults and all placed above the puppy in an adult class, as long as it is an unbeaten puppy it has to be considered for Best Puppy in Breed..

A puppy dose not have to be placed in a non puppy class to be eligable to compete for best puppy.

Strange but true

Yes, as either could be better than the puppy class winner.
This happened at an open show when I was showing on of my dogs,come to think of it.My puppy won puppy class,was then challenged by an unplaced pup in open(owner had accidently put her in the wrong class) -but lost against my pup.

> My puppy won puppy class,was then challenged by an unplaced pup in open(owner had accidently put her in the wrong class) -but lost against my pup.

That happened to me in reverse! I was showing litter brother & sister so put the sister in Puppy & the brother in Graduate (classes were Puppy, Graduate & Open). Bitch was 2nd in Puppy, dog was unplaced in Graduate (there were around 6 in the class so he was one of only one or two dogs unplaced) and someone else also had a puppy in Open.

The winner of the puppy class, my boy and the pup from open (also unplaced) all went back in to challenge for Best Puppy.... you could've knocked me down with a feather when she handed me the Best Puppy rosette!! It still puzzles me now :) I'd have thought if she liked him that much he might have got a 4th in his class, given what else was in there (And it wasn't "the best of a bad bunch" either, cos he went on to Puppy Group 3 in a large puppy group)

Hi im kinda new into showing i have a shiba inu puppy im wanting to entre into a open show.... AVNSC- open is that ok to entre even tho im a puppy?
Rather than AV utility puppy?
Thanks laura

HI Laura,
you can enter your puppy in AVNSC open without a problem, but you will no doubt be up against more mature dogs, who could make your puppy look very young. If I were you I would do the puppy class at least you would know all the entries would be no more than 12 months old. Good luck.