anything other than experience to stop this happening?

The stud dog handler needs to hold him in place. :)

he shoots before he even gets near the target

It's up to the stud dog handler to teach him. 
It's much easier to slow down a keen dog than to wind up a dog who'd rather go to bed with a hot chocolate! :)

do you think he could recite all the flavours of his favourite brand of dog food in his head over and over again to distract himself?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

> It's much easier to slow down a keen dog than to wind up a dog who'd rather go to bed with a hot chocolate!

That realy struck a chord with me, it totally describes Cedric's attitude to sex!  How he has managed to get any bitches pregnant amazes me (he has sired 2 litters and another 1 on the way), but persuading him inot it as a work of art, I have rarely seen a less interested dog :)

To the OP, is he very young?  Are you keeping control of the situation the whole way through, holding him rather than letting hurl himself towards the bitch?  This may be a conversation better undertaken via PM as it could get a little to graphic for an open forum.

Separate them for approx half an hour let him calm down and things settle down. Some fluid will come out beforehand but if it's getting too much take him inside. Experience and age helps.

Hi, Are you sure that he is doing his whole bit before he hits the spot, or is what you are seeing just the fluid? Dogs will lose fluid as they hump, let him get on her, when you are sure that he is in hold on to him and get the bitch owner to hold her, it is a good idea for either bitch or stud to already know what they are doing and have people there that know what to do, could you contact a stud handler? You would need to take both bitch and dog to them and they normally charge around £50 per mate. Would be a good way for you to learn too.

How are you getting on?

What I tend to do is keep the male in a cage while I get the female ready, this minimises over excitement too soon. I was told a very good technique from someone with many years experience in our breed that works fantasticly and saves a lot of crawling about on the floor  and stress! I have one of those plastic storage boxes you can get from most supermarkets or DIY stores? They come in different heights, sizes etc. I have one that just fits under a bitch of our breed. I place a fleece on this so its soft for her, because the container is hard it is perfect for supporting the bitch and stopping her sagging down or you having to support them with your legs.  once the dog has mounted, it also keeps her bum up and is the perfect height and angle for the male..my husband normally holds the bitches front and hind leg on one side to stop her moving..or trying to step up onto the box. Once everything is in place I then let the male out of the crate, generally they know what has been going on and know what is expected immediatly so no over excitement, they just mount the bitch and and tie within a few minutes its fantastic and works a treat, perhaps if you try this you might be lucky? Just keep the male away until the last minute, if he is allowed to have a play or frolic with the bitch he's just going to get overexcited. 

we've had to kick the mating in the head now.... think bitch has stricture.... or lacking in hormone.... running clear, but will not be mated. she trying to eat my boy, so we've called it a day until vet check to check hormones again. :-( never mind

think bitch has stricture
Can you feel it?

i havent had a feel but the lady who is handling for me has tried to feel, but slightest entry and she has a dicky fit. stud only ever managed to do small entry then she throws a wobbly, unlike anything ever seen before, so we've called it a day to save injury. little bit disappointed but she at vets tomorrow to see of they can have a better job of finding the offending obstruction

A small stricture can usually be broken when giving an internal (to me always essential before I take a bitch to the stud dog) and then the dog can proceed.  If it's not possible, then the Vet can do it instantly with a sendative and then the bitch mated if she'd not gone over.
The dog shouldn't be allowed to work until he's been guided into place.  Is the person handling the stud dog experienced?  Has he been used before?  Is this your own dog and bitch?

well.... things turned for the better tonight.... she's been for an exam and she's ok. had a mating and a tie.... she's not my bitch but come in to use my stud. feel relieved now.... mating worries me at the best of times never mind with a stroppy bitch, i guess she just needed a few hours to get over herself.... mardy mare. can breathe a sigh of relief that things were. apparently her vagina is very upright and because dog is taller found it hard to get up and under, so to speak. but things went fine and we can all have a well deserved drink to calm the nerves :-)
ETA experienced handler

We call that an 'up and over bitch' :)  Can sometimes help to raise her rear end to level out the line so that he doesn't hit the p*bic bone..

yeah thats what we did in the end after her examination... must have been painful for her thats what all the fuss was about.... having a stiff G+T now to settle the nerves

It really is worth doing an internal examination before attempting any mating because you then know what to do to help.  I'd expect bitch owner and/or stud dog owner to do that to save distress to both dogs and handlers. :)

yeah, ive learnt from this.... we definitely ensure some type of internal exam is done, not making this mistake again, too much at stake.... luckily all other matings we've had have been "easy" and just needed gentle guidance from handler, so this was a shock when she showed all signs of being ready but then tried to rip his face off... poor boy, its not put him off tho, obviously... phewwww

It's the way that I know if my bitch is ready for mating - if she holds then she'll tie. :)

I'm sorry but what is it about people not allowing the dog and bitch to interact first?  Is it just me or does anyone else feel that allowing a bit of "chat" first is a better way? I understand that some dogs don't want to play and I have no issue with an on lead mating but surely the bitch has to have a little bit of choice!  I am not talking about letting the bitch savage the dog and I can completely understand the stud owner wanting to protect their dog.  I have had to "steady"some of my girls in the past but just hanging onto the bitch and then letting the dog out of a kennel or crate just seems so unnecessary to me.

I know this is a bit off topic as this isn't what the opening post is about.

they did have a play and a flirt and everything was fun and games, she stood, flagged and let him mount on numerous occasions, it was only after his gentleman piece touched her lady bit she threw an absolute wobbly. they were still playing, flirting and mounting after, but once his "little friend" just entered her she panicked and lashed out... more so than any maiden bitch id ever seen plus stud handler who been breeding her own for 20yrs and other dogs before, luckily we have worked out the way that she needs to be now, thankfully xx

> Is it just me or does anyone else feel that allowing a bit of "chat" first is a better way?

Certainly that is the norm in my breed, but a little discreet support is offered, rarely much in the way of hands on needed.

In fact many of our males will take offence at having their courting interefered with. ;)

I didn't mean in your particular mating Tanya.  Sorry I didn't explain myself very well.  Think I would have been better putting it as a separate post. Interested in people opinions really especially after reading the post about the plastic box!

I agree with you Zajak. If there would not be a mating without "force" I don't think it is meant to be.
They say we naturally pick mates(even us humans) that are genetically far from ourselves.
With dogs they obviously do not get free choice but a little choice should be given, even if it is with one mate
Same with inseminating bitches that are not allowing a male to mate naturally, why?

I can kind of see the point in slipping a "support" under a bitch if they are tied for a very long time...after the deed is done!
It is back breaking to hold a bitch of 50kg even for 5 minutes especially if they have decided they do not wish to stand around:
If we are going to just stop here I might was well lay down-attitude :)

If we are going to just stop here I might was well lay down-attitude
I've seen a 'very old and no longer with us' Rottie breeder make her stud dog and visiting bitch lie down when they had tied because she couldn't possibly have supported them.  I've never seen anything like it before or since but it was done in such a calm way, both were quite happy. :)

Funnily enough the young sire of my Inka when he mated my bitch laid down during the tie and the bitch had no option but to follow suit. 

Interestingly enough his half brother by the same sire also did this with his first bitch (not sure if either did it second time around as both have sired two litters)!!!!  Made my eyes water I can tel you, but both seemed happy about ti.

LOL.  Great that some people allow the dogs to do what comes naturally to them so to speak!  Several of the matings my girls have had the dog has chosen not to turn and instead to stand side by side. Is this common with other breeds?

Yep had that too.

"Several of the matings my girls have had the dog has chosen not to turn and instead to stand side by side. Is this common with other breeds? "

Yes. If the male isn't set on turning,
I prefer to have them standing "side by side".
I find it works well, the dogs seem comfortable, and holding them together is easy.
But if the male is wanting to turn, of course that's his choice, and it works well too.
Of course it is a risk of loosing the tie, when he turns, so a little "hug" is a good idea.

We had our bitch mated a few weeks ago, the dog and the bitch found the whole 'flirting' and 'chatting' great fun! In fact, they ran round our living room so much, that by the time they got on with the mating, the room looked like a bomb had hit it! The sofa cushions were on the floor, they had played in and out of the furry throws and had bounced to and from every sofa - oh yes, they had a great time! lol :) I think it helps that my girl is a complete and utter tart lol. I defiantly think it's nice for them to make friends before hand. And by the time they got on with the mating, they were both perfectly happy with each other.

I've also heard of quite a few people who get the dogs to lie down. My bitch prefers for me to get some exercise and hold her up whilst she dribbles on my shoulder!