I have been doing alot of trawling around the net. Getting abit upset. It seems that if you dont have a KC registered dog then it isnt worth its salt. Why is this?
I know alot of unregistered purebreds that are lovely. ALSO I own a crossbred and he is my solemate(nobody else would put up with me!!!!)
There are alot of great breeders out there producing wonderful dogs. I realise there are also many who are dreadful. But rings true for some KC breeders too.
If you are looking for a puppy the advice is to only look for a KC reg pup? Is this so you can guarentee its breeding? (maybe)
Is there any other registration organisation other than KC and DLRC
Please dont get cross for posting this, its just an observation/question and Im interested in your thoughts

interesting thread, :) i believe that kc reg dogs are recommended to buy due to the registered pedigree of its relatives, so that if you are looking for a particular type in a breed for instance or if you are wanting to show your dog at champion shows etc.  It is useful to buy a kc reg dog for researching health issues too, i am not saying a non kc reg dog would have health problems, but it can be easier to trace the breeding and blood line of a kc reg dog then one that is not kc reg.  

A dog worth isn't measured by the papers it has or the pedigree it carries but by those that love and cherish it, and the happiness it brings to all of us each and everyday.

The kennel club as a body of registration in my opinon is the ONLY registration that is worth it's salt. Because they follow research into health, promote good breeding practices and care about the welfare of dogs. It is advised to get a kc registered dog but as this isn't a kitemark it's also advised to conduct thorough research into the dogs breed and breeder of your choice. After all a litter of pups pedigree can be tracked back many generations and all health records are easily available to those that wish to view them. No other body offers this service along with the many many others the kc provide not to mention the colaboration with the bva. A litter that isn't kc'd you have to wonder why and more often that not if they are pedigrees it's something not done the way it should be done.

It might be easier to think of it in this way........

Why would anyone wish to buy a 'pedigree' dog which has no ancestory, a KC registered dog gives you bloodlines and shows it to be a pedigree dog from generations and generations which can be traced back, you know that you are getting the breed you want, if a dog is not registered by the KC then you have to ask why? A KC Sire and Dam have strict rules to protect them from being bred too young, too old and overbred and there are rules in place to try and stop lines with hereditary diseases from being used, the KC protects the Dams and Sires and future pups and owners as best as they can, nothing is perfect but you are better protected.

Unregistered dogs can have anything in them, there is no proof that they are full pedigrees over generations so people shouldn't pay for them as pedigrees.

There are also hundreds of dogs and pups stolen every year many end up being used as breeding stock their pups also go on to be used these dogs obviously have no papers a dog without papers should always be steered away from, because you may well be unknowingly funding these operations.

There is no reason for a pedigree dog in this day and age not to be registered, rules are being broken somewhere for them not to be, and that is something that we the general public do have control of, in helping the KC to protect dogs and pups now and in the future, so why would anyone wish to buy an unregistered dog? If you love dogs and wish to protect them don't look at anything not registered, if buying a pedigree.

Personally I would never buy a unregistered dog, I want to know its health tests are legitimate, the KC holds copy of the health records and so it is easy to prove that the parents of the pup have been health tested. Unregistered puppies often come from unregistered parents, unregistered parents are not shown which means that in all likeness that the breeder who bred them is not bothered about the breed standard. Also if they are not shown it is likely that they have not networked with other breeders with quality stock hence they end up using a local pet stud for their matings instead. As a puppy buyer I want the puppy I buy to look like the breed I set out to get, I fear that if breeder's of unregistered dogs are doing detrement (sp?) to many breeds by breeding away from the standard e.g the oversizing and the minaturising of certain breeds.

People also don't register dogs because it is an added expense, that's why they are cheaper, you'll notice they are around £250 while a registered health tested dog will be double that. A good breeder spares no expense in raising good quality pups.

I also would never go out to buy a cross breed UNLESS it was in part of a breeding plan to create a new breed and had come from health tested parents. Cross breeds to me are either accidents or the result of bybs hoping to make a quick buck. There are over 300 dog breeds in the world? why cross breed?
unregistered dogs are fine as pets but as breeding material? no way! BTW dont touch anything with DLRC reg = BYB/ Puppy Mill

Don't be upset about it, If your dogs are giving you pleasure as a pet how can they not be worth their salt? :)

BTW how do you define 'Great breeders producing wonderful dogs' that are unregistered? is this to regard to temperament/health/working ability?

Great breeders producing unregistered dogs sounds like an oxymoron to me. Pet breeders that breed very well tempered pets perhaps but they may not be the healthiest they could or bred to breed standard. Therefore shouldn't really be bred at all, breeders breeding for the pet Market causes many dogs to go in rescue, they are not experienced enough to find suitable perminant homes or are in it for the kids experience or money which are both wrong reasons.

Great breeders producing unregistered dogs sounds like an oxymoron to me. Pet breeders that breed very well tempered pets perhaps but they may not be the healthiest they could or bred to breed standard. Therefore shouldn't really be bred at all, breeders breeding for the pet Market causes many dogs to go in rescue, they are not experienced enough to find suitable perminant homes or are in it for the kids experience or money which are both wrong reasons.

These were my thoughts too LouiseDDB but I would like to know what the OP means by her own statement. I hope the OP returns as I would like to further understand her views :)

I suppose though (to add to the debate) that some could argue that breeding away from the breed standard e.g Bulldogs into a more original looking dog would be of benefit to the breed. I have a friend with an old tyme who certainly appeals more to me than the standard bulldog BUT this does not mean that she is healthier than a standard bulldog since she is not from health tested parents or health tested herself :)

i wouldnt buy another unreg dog. our first was a working BC from a farm- he's un reg. but others have been reg. i love the fact that i can see who has bred each dog in the pedigree, hip scores etc. its great to be able to google each dog and see pictures of them, their history in some cases health problems, age when they died etc. although in most cases it cant be guaranteed that the dog in a pedigree is who it says it is, unless they have all been dna tested. but its just nice to see everything wrote down on paper

> People also don't register dogs because it is an added expense

Puzzled at this statement. 

It costs just £12 to register a puppy with the Kennel Club. 

Well thank you everyone for a wonderful debate. Tanya1989-- I share your sentiments. Many an hour have I spent googleing names from pedigree's.
I still feel though that it would be nice to have more of a choice of where you can register puppies. Might not use it but I do like to have options. Competion is always good and makes for a better service. Im talking in general now.
Can I point out too that the KC only recommend health tests. They will still register puppies even if the necessary health checks havent been done.
I too cant understand why people dont register their puppies if it is possible to do.

Can I point out too that the KC only recommend health tests. They will still register puppies even if the necessary health checks havent been done.

Not if the breeder is part of the ABS -then the health tests have to be done. Also any buyer can of course check up on the recommended tests via the KC website to check in advance if the parents have been tested, when and with what result -so no need for any surprises. If people only bought from breeders who heath test the uncaring breeders would not get their pups sold.

One of my Papillons is unregistered -from an unregistered mother. Yes he's a lovely dog, but he's the ONLY one of my Papillons that has any health problems.

Puzzled at this statement. 

It costs just £12 to register a puppy with the Kennel Club.

£12 per puppy so if you have a litter of, lets say 8 pups it will cost you £96, thats £96 a byb could have in their pockets, what they would see as a pointless expense since the breeding is for profit only. So yes it is an added expense to this type of breeder. DLRC in comparison is £8 per pup complete with full fake 3 gen pedigree :(

The Kennel Club does not (yet *fingers crossed) make health tests mandatory but at least as a puppy buyer I can look at my dogs certificate of registration and see the results of my dogs parent's health test scores, I can see with certainty what health tests have been done, something I would not be able to do otherwise.

Little Jayne can you please answer my earlier question as I am eager to hear your views

BTW how do you define 'Great breeders producing wonderful dogs' that are unregistered? is this to regard to temperament/health/working ability?

> The kennel club as a body of registration in my opinon is the ONLY registration that is worth it's salt.

I would also add to that the ISDS (border collies only) and the NGRC (greyhounds only). Dogs registered with these organisations can be accepted for registration by the Kennel Club.

I would basically say that the only properly bred dogs are those registered with the KC or ISDS if Border collies.

Anything else is irresponsible wrong side of the blanket breeding, if your serious about breding decent purebred dogs in an ethical manner, then they will be KC registered (properly researched background with appropriate health testing etc) and crossbreds and mongrels being bred are simply a sign of someones irresponsibility, other than the very few examples of purpose bred working animals.

Of course there are bad breeders using the Kennel club, but those not using the kennel club by dint of breeding unregistered stock are doing it wrong to start with.

Of course the dogs are innocents in this whether well or badly bred, and they and their families are the ones to suffer when things are done badly.

The dogs especially and their unsuspecting potential owners are entitled to have dogs bred with as much care for health temperament and their breed standards as is humanly possible with living creatures, there is no excuse for breeding any other way.

In this day and age as in humans, there is little excuse for accidental litters as mis-mating jabs can be given to six weeks into pregnancy or bitches spayed.

I'm afraid after looking around for a pup, found an AB for our breed, only to find they DON'T do the Optigen/Antagene testing, when I questioned it with the KC they said they only 'recommend' having these tests done, they are not enforced, which is absolute madness.

I'm not an AB but still do every test available for my breed.

It is still up to buyers whether they will buy from breeders who do not do all the tests, if buyers insist on the tests the breeders will have to do them, or not be able to sell the pups.

If buyers refused to buy then there would be n market for badly bred or shortcut bred litters.

Also any buyer can of course check up on the recommended tests via the KC website to check in advance if the parents have been tested, when and with what result -so no need for any surprises. If people only bought from breeders who heath test the uncaring breeders would not get their pups sold.

Can I add please that only breeds that are on the schedules for testing can have their results published, all my dogs have the Breed club recommended health tests but these are not published by the KC as my breed is not recognised as having any health problems at present. It has caused some confusion with puppy enquiries, as people are told that all health tests done on a particular dog are available online. Why the KC cannot either state clearly on the original search health test page that only breeds on the schedules are listed or list all health tests supplied to them whether a scheduled breed or not.

Yes I can understand that, we are only scheduled for PRA for which we now have a dna test, but the breed club want to keep the annual eye testing requirement to ensure any other problems that crops up gets picked up.

breed club want to keep the annual eye testing requirement to ensure any other problems that crops up gets picked up.
A very sensible move :-)

DisipleOfDogs---sorry being abit dippy here but what was the question you wanted me to answer.

How do you define 'Great breeders producing wonderful dogs' that are unregistered? is this to regard to temperament/health/working ability? :) Basically what examples have you seen of good quality unregistered dogs, what do you class as a great breeder and in what way do you evaulate a wonderful dog? :) thanks

Isn't clad a mandatory health test for the puppies to be reg?

Sorry for the isds and greyhound one I'm not familiar with either but they are worth mentioning with a positive note. I don't know the facts of either.

IMHO I don't think their is a genuine valid reason for any dog NOT to be reg unless and unrecognised breed or the careful breeding programme similar to Persians and birman cats. Although I don't think the kc would accept this and reg the offspring even after several generations.

You have provided us with an interesting question, and no doubt we all have our own ideas and many are different.

Regarding unplanned litters as Brainless says there is absolutely no excuse these days whether KC registered dogs or the local over friendly muttley. The jab the vets used to give could cause pyometra in the bitches, but the jab they use these days is very safe and is the same one they give for pyometra. For an unplanned litter to be born, regardless of who bred it and whether or not it is KC registered, does beg the question as to the responsibility of the owner, since an unplanned litter will not have people waiting to offer homes, and so some of these dogs will end up in rescue because the "breeder" cannot find homes or the homes found were not as good as they might be and so the dog is passed on sometimes to a number of homes prior to ending up in rescue.

There are three registers at the moment in the UK, the only one I think is worth it's salt as others have said is the KC, every penny they get from registrations and events they license, is put back into dogs once the KC's expenses are taken out of it. I forget how much they donated to dog health and welfare this year, but I do know it is a huge amount. They support health research, which includes the development of new health tests and they support welfare organisations like the RSPCA, (Who received £48,000 from the KC in 2008). The other two registers are commercial and all money received goes to the share holders, none goes into health or welfare.

The KC do not demand breeding stock has to go under compulsary tests, but they do require Accredited Breeders to do so. I think as time goes on we will be seeing many changes to the ABS as the KC gets more feedback from members and hopefully those outside the scheme will see benefits in becoming ABS members and give the KC their feedback too. Most breeders who register with the KC do make sure they health test stock before breeding as the health results are printed on a registration certificate and any puppy buyer can see these quite clearly.

One reason a litter might be registered with another organisation is because the original breeder who sold the dog or bitch, might have good reasons for putting breeding restrictions on the dog. For example, a friend had a litter and put restrictions on them, she refused to remove the restrictions until all the health tests were completed. The new owner did not health test and is now regularly registering puppies with one of the other registers, who are not worried by this.

With regards the crossbred dog and the "good old mongrel of yesteryear" dogs are not turned out to roam these days in quite the way they would have been back in the 1960's for example, so most are being bred by somebody on purpose. They are not being responsible as they are for the most part not health testing. I have been running eye testing clinics for 28 years and I have only ever had KC registered dogs attending regularly (most eye tests are annual tests). I have had several crossbreds (including what is now referred to as a designer dog) attend and all have failed their eye tests, these dogs usually only ever come if the owner thinks something is wrong and their vet recommends they attend. Dogs registered with the other two registers I have only had one dog attend and it was registered with the DLRC. I regularly get ISDS registered Border Collies attending as well.

On a different tack for a moment, a friend had a litter of collies for sale, they were KC reg and health tested, advertised as such and a family came to pick a puppy, when they got there they said they would like to think about it before definately saying they would have a pup. It later turned out they had gone to another "breeder" who was charging much less and had not done any health tests what so ever. The pup they got from this "breeder" was blind by the time it was a year old. They also ended up with a lot of health problems from this poor pup.

Good and bad breeders do exist whether they register with the KC or not, but more breeders registering their stock with the KC health test than for any other register or non register bred stock. My ex husband always buys his spaniels from a gamekeeper who never ever tests his dogs for any kind of health problem, so far he has only had one which has had problems. I guess it is a case of you pay the money so you make the choices, I would always buy a KC registered puppy rather than an unregistered one or one registered with one of the other two commercial registers.

just as a ps to the last posting:

Everyone thinks of the KC as being a pedigree register, it is not for pedigrees only, it has been running a number fo registers for a long time, the obedience register, Agilty dogs working dogs and not forgetting the Companion Dog register for pet dogs regardless of whether they are pedigree or a scuffy muttley, just to mention a couple of the KCs registers and overall involvement in dog health and welfare.

one of the reasons some people prefer not to register pups with KC is because they are wanting to breed more litters then the kennel club would permit.    ie, get the poor bitch in pup every season til she can't bear no more.  far more profitable for the puppy farmer

Plus, of course, people who steal animals for breeding won't register the offspring either.

So all in all we are saying you may get some dodgy KC registering breeders or litters that are not as good as they might be (but that is up to the buyer to research) but non KC registration can never be a good sign, no matter the excuses used, if the breed is KC recognised breeds.

To add to what I said about my unregistered Papillon being the only one with health problems -his mum has litters twice a year. :(

Just because a breeders is selling stock that KC registered does not mean you are home and dry with a healthy pet! Just look at the GSD's out there, flashy websites and champions galour but just look at the state of the dogs! I could have cried when I went to Crufts and saw the shepherds sitting on their hocks and banana backed.  Not all all our like this I know but alot are.  This is where I lost some of the faith I had in the KC.  

As I pointed out above the buyer still has to do the basic research and seeing the parents and preferably the grandparents is the only way of knowing what the pups are likely to be like, but of curse the information has to be verifiable, i.e. KC registered health tests available etc.

If the type of dog bred by the breeder does not appeal, (classic example are breeds with wildly varying type between working and show stock, or the GSD differences).

With KC reg and helath records a buyer knows what they are getting.

I think alot of the problems lie when not so informed people buy a dog that is KC registered as they think that is enough (heard it time and time again at club) its too late to tell them after they have bought it that the dog they have is not a very good example of the breed.  Nothing beats experience but first time dog owners don't have any. Its abit like the accredited breeder scheme - it means nothing as there were no checks in place (don't know if that the case now but it was when I bought my GSD bitch 3 years ago)

I think alot of the problems lie when not so informed people buy a dog that is KC registered as they think that is enough (heard it time and time again at club) its too late to tell them after they have bought it that the dog they have is not a very good example of the breed.  Nothing beats experience but first time dog owners don't have any.

But you cant blame he KC for that -it's the buyers' own fault. Say you were buying a car, you wouldn't assume it ran perfectly just because it was registered, would you? You'd expect an MOT at least -yet not all cars are sold with an MOT. And not many people would trust every second hand car salesman they met! In this day and age, with the internet available to everyone (and it IS as if you don't have a computer you can visit your local library) there is NO excuse for buyers NOT reading up before making a purchase. It's not like buying a pint of milk, after all.

Yes it would be great if that were the case but what I am trying to say is that alot of people think that if a litter is KC registered it MUST be good. Also first time dog owners don't always no what to look for and what to avoid.  Some puppy farms have KC registered litters and are part of the Acredited Breeder Scheme which itself is supposed to be some sort of assurance of quality breeding.  That is something that makes my blood boil!

Also first time dog owners don't always no what to look for and what to avoid.

Like I just said -they really have to take a big part of the blame themselves because there is NO excuse for NOT educating yourself properly before buying a puppy. It makes no sense to make such a big purchase, both in terms of money, time and commitment, without having looked into everything first. There will always be dodgy breeders just as there will be dodgy car dealers. There are plenty of first time dog owners who DO do everything right, so just the fact they are first timers is no excuse.

the kc need to tighten up ! the ABS is all well and good and it only recommeds the health tests , i know of accredited breeders that have done health tests and have way above average scores , hips and elbows but because they do the tests  the kc let them remain as AB , you cant blame JP for putting faith in a scheme they think is working  yes they should do their research  and hopefuly they will get a pup from a good breeder but there will always be some breeders who manage to get away with it

Some tests are mandatory for the ABS, and as for results that are not straight pass or fail the KC cannot legislate as what is OK score in one breed will be unacceptable in another, and these decisions need to be made on an individual basis, and a buyer needs to decide whether they find the breeders reasoning acceptable or not.

Barking Mad

>Yes it would be great if that were the case but what I am trying to say is that alot of people think that if a litter is KC registered it MUST be good. Also first time dog owners don't always no what to look for and what to avoid.  Some puppy farms have KC registered litters and are part of the Acredited Breeder Scheme which itself is supposed to be some sort of assurance of quality breeding.  That is something that makes my blood boil<

Newfienook

>the kc need to tighten up !<

As these two posters have commented along similar lines I thought I would answer both in one.

The KC are always tweaking the ABS and they will over time tighten the scheme up no doubt. As Brainless said, the KC cannot give a cut off point on some health issues (hip displaysia being a classic example, since it is polygenic in nature), so they require the breeders to test and then decide if they can breed from the dog or bitch.

As to where a novice buyer can go for help, they can obviously contact the KC but they can also ask the vet they plan to use after they have purchased a puppy, for health test requirements which the breed they would like to own has to have and what the results are likely to be. Most vets will have this information and if not would happily find this out for you, (my vet Hampden Vet Hospital do it), and I think if a veterinary practice were not interested in supplyng this information then I would have to ask 'will they be dilligent' if I need to take my dog there? The other place to find out about the breeds are the breed clubs, lists of breed clubs can be obtained from the Kennel Club and I don't think there are any breed clubs who do not have web sites of their own these days. Certainly an internet search will pick up breed clubs.

DisipleOfDogs-- my own dog(he is a crossbred) is a wonderful dog and very healthy at the good age of 10 years. It was just a comment based on my own experiences. I also have some friends that breed lovely dogs very well done and healthy but they arent Kc registered. It wasnt meant to be a provocative statement. As is none of my original post. Just an observation.

> I also have some friends that breed lovely dogs very well done and healthy but they arent Kc registered.

Then what is their purpose to breeding, you can't track/prove their bloodlines and the health of their ancestors, what purpose can they fulfil that cannot be equalled or surpassed by well bred health tested bred to standard pedigree pups?  What is their excuse for breeding in the first place?  Do they give lifelong support to their pups owners and have they taken pusp back for re-homing?

As for your crossbreed, he is only 10 years old, neither has any one of my dogs ever had issues at that age.

Do you know what the Hip status or eye status your crossbreeds parents had, his health is pure luck not good planning.  Do you still have contact with his breeder, will they take responsibility for him should your circumstances change, or was he a rescue statistic already when you had him.

I would never choose to take such a chance, I want as much as is possible to load the dice in my favour.

I want to breed health good natured to standard dogs.

This way I have the pleasure of their company, minimal vet fees, and they have pain Free active lives.  We also have the enjoyment of taking part in canine events sharing our doggy interests with other like minded folk. 

I am sure they don't mind that I am proud of the fact they are considered good example of their breed by others and have been able to win at shows.  The excitement on show days tells me they enjoy our days out.

Little jayne, can you understand what everyone is trying to say in response to you.

It seems that the KC is an organization at least which is trying it's best to help regulate the breeding and registering of dogs, so as to ensure the best of health and temprement in all breeds.

Surely this can only be applauded as opposed to chance breeders that have no written proof of their history.

Karen :)

> I also have some friends that breed lovely dogs very well done and healthy but they arent Kc registered.

Hi,

I understand you are not trying to be provocative, so please do not regard my following comments as being provocative either.

Under the BVA health schemes only pedigree dogs are supposed to be tested, they need to be registered in order to do this. So how do your friends health test for example for eye disease, as this has to be done by a specialist, not an ordinary vet?

At my eye testing sessions we do get crossbreds, and I am always getting told off for booking them in to be tested, but I think all dogs should be tested regardless of whether or not they are pedigree and/or potential breeding stock. If this was done for hips, elbows and eyes we would have a better understanding of how healthy all dogs are. The crossbred dogs attending the clinics I run do not get any certificate to say they are clear of inherited eye disease, the only ones which do are the KC registered dogs as the health schemes are a joint venture set up by the KC and BVA.

So I suppose my question is if they are health tested and not KC registered how does a potential buyer know the result of the eye test? Or for that matter any other recommended health test? The health results of all KC registered dogs can be found on their registration certificates, on their health certificates and on the Kennel Club web site.

some dogs in my breed that arent registered have been heart tested and hip scored and issued with a certificate why dont you give a  certificate of eye testing if the dog is identifiable via tatoo or microchip , back tracking a bit i know that hips  are a requirement of the ABS in my breed as we have a breed mean score how can the KC say they cannot legislate it ,surely if the breed clubs specify only to breed from below average scores  why cant the KC implement it for indivdual breeds  that have BMS , at least that would give JP a head start

Because BMS is not the whole story.

What about uneven scores?

The total score could be high due to an injured hip, with the other side scoring low. 

The genetics of Hip Dysplasia are bilateral so the genetic portion of the score should give roughly even scores, a larger difference will be due to environmental influences.

A dog is more than oen feature,a dn it may be prudent to use a dog or bitch with a higher score if other factors mean they are outstanding, especially if they are from a low scoring line.

The health results of all KC registered dogs can be found on their registration certificates, on their health certificates and on the Kennel Club web site.

As above they will NOT be on the KC site if the breed is not on the schedule A or B.

> As above they will NOT be on the KC site if the breed is not on the schedule A or B.

Are you referring to the eye test certificates? I ask because you mention schedule A or B.If you are then the results are on the KC if the breed is KNOWN to be affected by a certain eye problem. The BVA who do the testing select which schedule the dogs go onto. One list is for eye problems known to be in breeds, and the other schedule is for dogs where it is suspected there might be a problem or might be one developing and until this is confirmed over a specified length of time. If it is confirmed then the breed is moved onto the other schedule list, if not after it might even be removed from the "under investigation" schedule. A good vet can inform a puppy purchaser which eye defects/diseases a breed can suffer from so again it is up to the buyer to do the asking of the vets and the breeders.

> some dogs in my breed that arent registered have been heart tested and hip scored and issued with a certificate why dont you give a&nbsp; certificate of eye testing if the dog is identifiable via tatoo or microchip

The BVA health testing schemes have been developed between the KC and the BVA, for screening pedigree dogs prior to breeding. Many obedience and agility dogs are also tested but again they are on the KC registers, whether pedigree or not. If a KC registered dog attends an eye testing clinic and the owner does not have the KC registration paper with them then the eye testing certificate is held by Prof Bedford until the owner sends the certificate to him and he then returns the registration and certificate to the owner. I do not personally with hold a certificate, these are the rules drawn up by the BVA & KC and it is up to the panellist doing the eye testing.

With the new rules coming into use in 2010 it is highly likely that any dog will be able to have these tests but all dogs must be identified by micro-chip or tattoo. At present the dogs coming for testing do not have to be permanently identified.

If you are then the results are on the KC if the breed is KNOWN to be affected by a certain eye problem

I am, my breed goes on schedule B today, but all my dogs current eye certs will not be listed on the KC site even though 1 was done in Dec, it has caused lots of confusion with puppy purchasers when it is stated that if a dog has been tested it will be listed on the KC site, it just isnt the case, just wish the KC would get their act together and make this very clear when JP are searching for the results they are told will be there if the dog has been tested, they should be told the results will only be listed if the breed is listed on schedule A/B.

I have both crossbreeds as well as purebred dogs (the latter IKC reg'd), however, having had many pedigreed and crossbred dogs here in rescue I must say that it is rather 50/50 in regards to health problems. IMHO there is no way one can say with absolute certainty that crossbred dogs are healthier or the other way around and that is from my own experience of over 1000 rehomed dogs. But I think it is fairly clear that some breeds are teetering at the brink of disaster healthwise and urgent action is needed. I am not a KC fanatic, to me it is far more important that a dog is heathy. Fit for purpose is more than a hollow phrase with alot of breeds who lost their jobs as time progressed and are now bred for show or pet homes. I am still appalled the state of the English Bulldog and, being German, the decline of the beautiful straight backed GSD of my youth. The GSD nowadays are, IMHO, a carricature of their forebearers.

The healthiest dogs I have had here are the ones bred for purpose, being in rural Ireland, I speak of BC's - all bred as cattle- or sheepdogs. They may not conform with the breed standard but they are healthy, long living and hard working. Purely an observation on my part over the past 13 years of my doing rescue in Ireland.

> I am, my breed goes on schedule B today, but all my dogs current eye certs will not be listed on the KC site even though 1 was done in Dec, it has caused lots of confusion with puppy purchasers when it is stated that if a dog has been tested it will be listed on the KC site, it just isnt the case, just wish the KC would get their act together and make this very clear when JP are searching for the results they are told will be there if the dog has been tested, they should be told the results will only be listed if the breed is listed on schedule A/B.

Only eye conditions that are on Schedule A are published, eye condition results that are on Schedule B (under investigation) are not sent to the KC for publication.  Only when there is enough scientific evidence to believe that a condition is of genetic inheritance is it put on Schedule A.   As from 1.1.2010 all dogs that are presented for examinations under the CHS (Canine Health Schemes) will have to be permanently identified either by microchip or tattoo, dna profiling is not accepted as yet.