Hi all

My westie robbie has been fed on raw meat and natural choice wholebake for the past few months but he keeps getting blocked anal glands and i am thinking of putting him over to a complete diet as his motion seems rather softish on this raw food, i  have been advised either royal canin westie breed specific or wafcol salmon and potato as good food alternatives but have read some posts that the wafcol salmon and potato is not as good as it used to be do you know if this has now been corrected?
Don't want to switch him and then have to change him again, i have been giving him bones but it still hasn't firmed his motion up, the breeder suggested that a complete diet may be the answer.

Helen

It may be the wholebake mixer that is causing the problems. Have you tried the raw meat and bones without the mixer? I'd try that for a few weeks and see how he gets on without the mixer - he doesn't need it.

Can they just have raw meat and bones on its own then as i thought the mixer made it a more complete diet as i would be concerned he wasn't getting all the nutrients with just meat on its own.

There are plenty of people that feed no mixer at all - think of how animals feed in the wild. Many feed following a "prey model". Others add fruit and veg, but others feel these are unnecessary also.

Why don't you join the Yahoo Group, BritBarf. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people there and fact sheets/information on a raw diet.

A good, easy to understand book is Kymythy Schultze's Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats - The Ultimate Diet.

Usually with Barf if its fed correctly the poo's are hard and crumble sometimes when they hit the floor - Are you feeding raw minced chicken?  this is a sure way to firm up the poo. The bone content helps to keep it firm.   I feed raw and never have a problem but I don't use a mixer.  Try leaving it out for a week and see what happens.  My once fed complete GSD had anal glands problems until we switched to raw and never a problem since.  I would be sure its  the mixer that doing it.

Are you feeding blended veg & fruit with the meat? Too much can cause loose motions.

I wouldn't go back to complete for love nor money, natural is best but make sure its varied and balanced. :-)

Are you feeding human meat or dog meat?  Dog minced beef/chicken will contain bone.  Dogs fed raw correctly don't have soft motions.

Wafcol salmon & potato works well for dogs, especially Westies, with skin problems.

I thought you couldn't feed dogs just meat on its own thats why i got him the mixer biscuit aswell, he has the prize choice freeflow meat either the chicken and tripe, lamb or beef i don't mix fruit of veg with it as i was told this can give them the runs, he also has chicken wings and lamb rib bones 3 times per week but this has made no difference to him with his motions, i was told this would firm him up but it hasn't.

I would research the barf diet before you venture any further.  Ian Billinghurst 'The Barf Diet' is a good start.  If you feed raw you dont need a mixer but like I said it must contain everything they need inc. offal, veg mix, raw egg....etc. 

I would say the mixer is causing him to be loose.  If he has persistant loose stools I would be inclined to get his poo tested to eliminate any bacteria or parasite problem.

Just a suggestion but how about trying the minced varieties from Food4Dogs which have the right meat/bone/offal in them(80% meat/10%offal/10%bone)-that might make it simpler for you.You could then cut out the mixer and see how it goes.

If you decide to go down the complete route, I can recommend the Royal Canin - the poos are great!  :-)

I know they do breed specific, but I have tried the Chi one, and they prefer the ordinary.  My Yorkies and Chihuahuas get RC mini junior and mini adult.  It keeps super condition on them, and no upset tummies.

I feed Royal Canin and have only good things to say about it

I used to feed Royal Canin and am a big fan of the food, however it didn't suit my girl, nor my friends two. Both of us experienced intermittent looseness and a pink tinge to their coats. We changed onto Fish4Dogs, both salmon and cod varieties and have never looked back.

<<Ian Billinghurst 'The Barf Diet' is a good start.>>

The only thing I found with the Billinghurst diet is that he recommends what I'd consider too much bone. The problems little Robbie is having could then go the other way. Monitoring the poo is how I judge whether my lot need more or less bone.

I do agree with BarkingMad16, if you feed raw make sure it contains everything needed. Firstly I'd definitely cut out the mixer and see if things improve before trying other foods.

Using the principles of whats in the book is how I started and then you 'tweak' it to suit your dogs - I thought that the bone content in his book was rather high so I feed less than he recommends, saying that I don't do %'s now adays, I have relaxed over it and they are doing fine, thats what I do anyway :-)

We switched from using Royal Canin puppy moving onto raw feeding at adult age about 18months. We now feed Challenge Salmon and Potato and I have to say the dogs have never looked better. We rear puppies on the Salmon and Rice food and they do really well off it with firmer stools and less volume than when we reared on Royal Canin (which is still a good food in itself).

Alex

Hi

Where do you get challenge salmon and potato from as i have never seen this in petshops before, what breed of dog do you have, do you mix any meat with this kibble or just feed it on its own?

Have heard lots of talk about this brand, mostly good, but not used it myself

As far as I know you can only buy Challenge from their website or through an 'agent' or at least that's how my folks bought it. They fed it since it came on the market with no complaints but changed their show girls over to Royal Canin 6mnths ago and see an improvement in their coats. I've always fed RC with tripe and a few other raw bits and pieces added and have no reason to change.

Find your nearest stockist here
http://www.wafcol.co.uk/frames/wafcol.html

Royal Canin Westie food is not as good as Wafcol.  I was not that impressed reading the bag of the Westie RC bag.  

PS where have you read posts that the food (wafcol) is not as good as it used to be??

There was a post on here back in November saying about JWB and wafcol that the foods had seemed to have changed and that some bags had a burned smell to them i think it was a post from you that said something about the breeders  barcode offer being withdrawn and that you had phoned to complain about a sack of food that you ordered from wafcol that smelt burnt or something, i know you have fed wafcol salmon and potato before and have highly recommended it but thats why i was considering royal canin aswell, still haven't decided as yet just that he doesn't seem to be doing over well on raw at the moment.
Would be interested to know if wafcol has resolved the problem now though, are you still feeding it?

I had 2 bad bags and the replaced it with bags from the same batch so I sent them back again.   My new bags have been fine.    I was miffed at the barcode deal changed but is more a breeder deal issue rather than a food issue. They have said they are replacing the deal with something else although I am not sure what this is.

JWB grain free and Wafcol grain free are really completely different types of food to Royal Canin though.  Royal Canin is now very grain heavy. With nearly all the range having rice as the main ingredient.    The only RC I now use is the reproduction whelping one which is just that whelping mothers and weaning puppies.  The rest of the range has changed far too much for me.

I used to feed Hamish the wafcol salmon and potato as i found this was the only food he could tolerate as the poor little chap had so many allergies he seemed to do well on it and always cleared his bowl, i am not sure about royal canin the vet is against it as he said wafcol is a better food so looks like i may change him over onto this if they have now corrected the problems, just didn't want to buy some and change him over then find it wasn't any good.
Can you add some meat to this or should you just feed this on its own?

I used to feed Hamish the wafcol salmon and potato as i found this was the only food he could tolerate as the poor little chap had so many allergies he seemed to do well on it and always cleared his bowl,
Then that sounds like the right one if you want to feed a complete, although I've not kown a dog to eat chicken wings and not be firm.