What qualifies a dog to enter in a post graduate class? I was under the impression it was for animals age 6-18months...am i wrong?

Post graduate is not an age defined class, but defined by number of wins at Post Graduate or higher at championship shows.

You cannot enter in PG anymore once you have won 5 breed classes at this or higher level at championship shows (whether the breed has CC's or not).

Thanks.....i got my classes mixed up.

If you have a breed that is awarded CC's, then wins at Champ Shows without CC's do not count towards winning out of Post Grad

> If you have a breed that is awarded CC's, then wins at Champ Shows without CC's do not count towards winning out of Post Grad

Yes they do.  Very nearly got caught out on this one.

The post grad qualification says Championship shows, Limit says ch shows with CC's on offer to the breed.  So non CC shows do count.

POST GRADUATE * For clogs which have not won a Challenge Certificate or 5 or more First Prizes at Championship Shows in Post Graduate, Minor Limit, Mid Limit, Limit and Open classes, whether restricted or not.

LIMIT * For clogs which have not won 3 Challenge Certificates under 3 different judges or 7 or more First Prizes in all, at Championship Shows in Limit and Open classes, confined to the breed, whether restricted or not, at Shows where Challenge Certificates were offered for the breed.

The classes between PG and Limit are defined as in Limit ie wins at championship show where CC's are on offer.

Under-graduate and Graduate are the same as Post Grad, wins at championship shows.

I am pretty sure wins at Championship shows with no CC's on offer (for breeds which do have CC's in the first place obviously) don't count towards wins in PG as far as moving out of the class is concerned. If you read the preamble to the definitions of classes, show schedules state:

"Wins at Champ shows in breed classes where Challenge Certificates are NOT on offer shall be counted as wins at Open Show".

I take that to mean 5 wins in PG classes at Champ shows where CC's are on offer, then you have to move up to Limit - unless you win a CC before that of course :-)

K x

I think you will find I am correct, that is why there is the difference in wording.

There are other classes that wins at any level will have you out of a class, like Novice, Débutante etc.

Hmm, that means I need to move up a class then I think.  Didn't mean to upset you at all Barbara so apologies - you have been showing way longer than me, it's just I checked this earlier in the year with people and was told the sentence I quoted means I don't have to move up til I have had 5 wins in PG at shows with CC's.  Confused now, and a bit worried!

I asked at the Kennel club and was told it did win you out, and makes sense as other wise why the difference in wording?

Graduate and PG saying wins at championship shows, and The Limits and above saying that, with the addition of where CC's are on offer for the breed.

I think the wins at Non CC shows counting as Open shows is to do with awards like the points for JW as only 1 point for Non CC or Open shows.

Thanks Barbara, I've just had a look at oher results and we are still OK in PG even taking this new found knowledge into account; she needs 1 more win to move out of PG as has had 3 wins in PG at CC Champ shows and 1 win in PG at a non CC Champ show, other wins after Junior were in Novice and Undergrad (we've had a few 2nd places lately, luckily as it turns out, so we can still legitimately be in PG at Manchester which is the only show we've already entered and not yet been to!).  Thanks for your help on this.

K x

In the current Crufts(2010) schedule under 'Definitions Of Classes' on page 12, paragraph b reads "Wins at Championship Shows in breed classes where Challenge Certificates are not on offer shall be counted as wins at Open Shows"

> POST GRADUATE * For clogs which have not won a Challenge Certificate

> LIMIT * For clogs which have not won 3 Challenge Certificates

Sorry, I had to smile...

Presumably applies only to shows in Holland??

I explained that above, I assume that bit refers to counting the wins for points etc, as the class definitions distinguish shows with CC's for the breed in Limit, but just Champ shows for Post grad.

Best to err on the side of caution if you have won PG or above at non CC shows as it is easy to get disqualified.