Has anyone had any success stopping a dog with food stealing habits? 

One of my dogs, Rosie, is now four years old and we have had her since puppyhood.  We have never been able to stop her stealing food out of our kitchen since she was big enough to do it (she is about 60cm at shoulder so well able to reach any kitchen surface, as well as get into the bin).  I'd sort of given up/managed the problem by having both a baby gate blocking entrance to kitchen and putting a chair/ironing board up against the gate if there is something tempting enough for her to jump the gate, but I'm looking for advice now because my OH has been getting increasingly stressed out by our dogs (not really a dog person) and listed this behaviour as one of the things that he doesn't like.

In the past we have tried telling her off (still do if we catch her), sending out into the garden as exclusion punishment and even baited a piece of meat with a little bit of chilli (she scoffed it without any hesitation).  I'm not really sure what else there is to try?  Any success stories out there would be much appreciated.

telling her off wont work.you have to set her up to fail a test.

get yourself a quality street size metal tin fill it with nuts and bolts(messy but it works)
roast a chicken and leave it fresh on the work surface,if you can sit hiding somewhere use mirrors if you have to soon as shes on the side pull the string attched to your tin however it is attached..it will come crashing down spilling everything and scaring the living daylights out of her.
worked for my rottie and i had to set her up to go down my fridge.

as with the bin put the tin same contents filled up on a sde nearest the bin you can.soon as she sticks her head in the bin (you must make sure shes in the bin tho) pull the cord.if you have to do it again do it.
my advise would be soon after shes had this noise nd fear through her say come on up you come tap the work surface like you want her up there MAKE SURE SHE CANT SEE SOMEONE PULLING THE CORD then do it again when she looks shocked so do you.
it worked with my dog no reason why it cant work with yours.

Can you simply ensure there is nothing left out for her to steal?  Not always easy I know but if your OH is willing to fit a couple of shelves or a cupboard so that all tempting things can be put out of reach it will solve the problem and in the long run is a lot more reliable than frightening her into stopping.

Same with the bin - there was a good thread on here recently about a locking bin.  Might be worth a try.  Good luck

I agree with dogs a babe just pack everything away.  My sisters Leo can reach everything so if we don't want it stolen then it gets put away - I would never frighten my dog to stop him/her from taking stuff I have left available.

I would say the same, I have three larger dog that can all reach the surfaces and it's pretty normal for dogs to scavenge if something is left out.  Teach a reliable leave for when you are around and just make sure everything is out of reach for when you aren't.  It's a lot more reliable and without consequnces of scaring the dog into not taking stuff, always better to set the dog up to suceed rather than setting them up to fail!

There are several dog proof bins that are available for not too much now.

I agree with the others. The only real way to stop this is to make sure that there is nothing available in the first place. I had one that would open the cupboard doors for a look so all food was put into the higher cupboards.

>I agree with the others. The only real way to stop this is to make sure that there is nothing available in the first place.

I agree with this. Our older dog had been a stray. He stole food a lot when we first got him. A dozen freshly cooked mince pies, a still frozen chicken kiev etc etc and had to have his stomach pumped out after a chocolate binge :( We stopped it by just ensuring that he couldn't get anything and also making sure that he had to 'earn' any food that he did get.

For the last year we have been living in one room while renovating our house. Both our dogs are left frequently alone in this room - we have all our food in there within quite easy reach of the dogs and a sack of kibble on the floor. Neither dogs has ever stolen anything - so it is possible to stop this habit :) :) :)

Daisy

Although setting up a scary scenario may help, there's a risk the dog might unwittingly associate it with something else that happened at the time. Let's suggest you also have a cat which comes in through the cat flap when the tin comes crashing down - doggy may think the cat's done it! Not funny if then that gives the dog a fear of the cat. What happens if - say - a loud plane goes overhead at the time? The risk is the dog might then make negative associations with kitchens/bins/areoplanes which could transfer to a fear of them in general.  I agree, set the dog up to succeed not fail.... and don't risk any further consequences. Good management is a key - lockable bins, food always put away... would be the same if you had cats as they do not respect these things and can't easily be trained out of it!

Maybe having a baby monitor in the kitchen linked to one in your living room? You might learn the subtle sounds of your dog starting to counter-surf (or even jump the gate) and be able to correct it by calling him/her in for a nice reward instead. Give the dog something better or nicer or tastier or more interesting to do.

ive advised her the way the behaviouist advised me.thats all

Use a very stern tone as a punishment whenever this happens and it will soon stop as it will not be appreciated. My dog would never dream of touching anything, from coffee table much less a work surface, as without being given it, it's out of bounds.

It would be ridiculous to have to avoid leaving things on a surface due to an errant dog.

Use a very stern tone as a punishment whenever this happens and it will soon stop as it will not be appreciated. My dog would never dream of touching anything, from coffee table much less a work surface, as without being given it, it's out of bounds.

It would be ridiculous to have to avoid leaving things on a surface due to an errant dog.

If only life were so simple. You have obviously never had a determined thief. We had a Lurcher many moons ago who was a thief through and through, nothing short of locking her in a crate would stop her and we tried everything incuding a one on one dog trainer (No behaviourlist then as such!) She ever managed one day to climb on top of the high cupboards in the kitchen and devour 8lbs of frozen tripe bags included!!! and came to no harm. My girlies are pretty good the older ones will not touch anything at all but puppy face !! well she is a thief and I just make sure things are well out of her reach now.
aileen

> It would be ridiculous to have to avoid leaving things on a surface due to an errant dog.

A great way to stop a dog developing bad habbits is to make sure it doesn't get a chance to do so, ie. do not leave anything  on the kitchen counter to tempt the dog & the dog is less liekely to learn he can steal form the counter.

My dog would try to steal off the counter when younger (whilst I was there ), a multi-pronged apporach helped
# don't leave things unatended on the counters
# reward the dog for waiting patiently and NOT trying to steal

I can now leave things unatended on the kitchen counters without the worry of the dog stealing, however, I never DELIBERATLEY leave thigns out for several reasons -
leaving food around is unhygenic,
I have a cat who will help herself to anything,
said cat will knock things onto the floor (just out of sheer devilment )
there is no point temping an opportunistic animal (dog) with food - it risks developing bad habbits :)

>It would be ridiculous to have to avoid leaving things on a surface due to an errant dog.

It's the same as not leaving temptation in the way of small children - neither they nor dogs can be expected to behave like adult humans.

I'm told there are children who peek to see what Christmas presents they're getting. What's the difference?

Use a very stern tone as a punishment whenever this happens and it will soon stop as it will not be appreciated. My dog would never dream of touching anything, from coffee table much less a work surface, as without being given it, it's out of bounds.

It would be ridiculous to have to avoid leaving things on a surface due to an errant dog.

That's very black and white way of looking at it.  I can assure you if there was a chinese takeaway left overs on the side and someone hadn't told me I couldn't have it and I was really hungry I would take it.  Dogs are naturally scavengers and it is a natural behaviour for dogs to want to take something if it smells good and there's noone around to say 'leave it'

I prefer to teach my dogs what I want from them by setting them up to succeed and rewarding them for the correct response.  I wouldn't use punishment of any sort to teach a dog not to do something that is natural to it.  What if a dog has come from the streets where scavenging was the only way it had got food, what if a dog is scared of raised voices, what if the dog really doesn't care about a stern tone?  For some dogs the reinforcement of getting some food will far out weigh the possiblity of punishment.  Dog learn by association and if you use a stern tone while you, they and the left out food are in the room that is one thing but that won't equate to the same thing when the dog is in the room with the food on their own.

As Mastifflover says, by not leaving the food out in the first place it stops a habit forming or breaks the habit somewhat, that combined with teaching a reliable leave by rewarding them will make the behaviour less ingrained.  Also depends on the reason some dogs will do things like this because they are bored or hungry etc.  Using the methods I nad other have suggested does work, someone came running over to my van just as I had started a pack of Sushi yesterday and absent mindedly I got out the van and wandered to meet them leaving the Sushi pack on the dash board with my ex (not always ex theif :-D) theif of a Dobe.  I was out the van for a good ten mintutes and bless her she hadn't touched it for which she got lots of rewards.  She wouldn't have gotten anything had she eaten it, I mean she wouldn't have been told off, though I may have sulked as I love sushi :-D but it would have been my fault for leaving something so tempting right under her nose.

When I kept danes one was a terrible thief! He could reach everything, even the top cupboards, and open the fridge door. I remember one day he opened the fridge and helped himself to a huge block of cheese, while ignoring the beef roast that was waiting to go in the oven. Must have just fancied it I suppose! Lost count of how many joints of meat he pulled down off the side while I was dealing with the vegetables. I think he retrained me tho and his opportunities lessened the more dinners I missed!

I have taught my dogs to 'leave' any item, apart from the pup, I could leave a plate of food on the coffee table and tell them to leave it knowing it would not be touched.  I have always told my dogs to 'leave it' as soon as they look remotely interested in anything on the worktops or kitchen table.  They seem happy to understand that attempting to help themselves off the sides is not allowed.  I am too busy to ensure that there is never anything left out on the side.  Noses are in the air when I dish up dinner but thats all they do.  When my pup looks interested at whats on the surfaces I use 'leave it' and praise her for not jumping up and coming away.  I have never owned a thief thankfully but then all my dogs came to me from 7/8 weeks old so its easier for them as they have been taught from day one.  As to stopping a learned behaviour, all I have heard is that people can use baking trays along the worktops, if the dog jumps up they come crashing down - sometimes it works I understand but have never needed to try it personally.

Is that when you are in Barkingmad. What would happen if you went out and left the food on the worktops?

One of the reasons I now have two small breeds is because my old GSD was such an intelligent thief. Any food kept in cupboards on floor level would be eaten. Then she discovered that if she could break into the fridge there were all sorts of treats to be had. We went through three fridge freezers in a couple of years as she would just break the seal even with child proof locks until she got in. Locking her out of the kitchen wasn't an option as she had always had free run of the house and even at 10 would destroy a door if she was confined.

My two terriers can't reach the fridge door :-D

When we go out the dogs are in the dog room and utility.  Their meat is on the worktop in the utility de-frosting everyday from the morning until its fed to them in the evening - never has it been stolen, its usually a tripe mix so they would definately smell it. My pups wings are defrosting for her lunch too and she knows they are there because she does a little twirl around midday to remind me to feed her right beneath where they are.  I don't usually leave fresh food on the side for any length of time due to hygiene reasons but have left the kitchen without giving it a second thought that a half made sandwich or a roast chicken is sitting waiting to be carved. My eldest dog sometimes sits and looks at the worktops (always when a roast chicken is half eaten and cooling before going into the fridge) he occasionally reached up but a 'leave it' is enough as he was taught this command from young a pup. He is tall enough to reached up and help himself but he is so well mannered he just wouldn't. 
This post was mentioned to my mum earlier who has always had dogs and she too has never had a thief, she has always owned labradors.  Also, when I used to feed complete, the bag was kept in the bottom cupboard in the utility room, again, never attempted to help themselves. Maybe we are in the minority?

My 2 youngsters do this brother and sister they are 5 years...
Starsky- I've owned him 13 months and he was a latch door dog out on an estate scavenging from bins so can't blame him really. He has had so many tubs of marge now, my son makes a sandwich and forgets to put it away, so one day when I came back from the supermarket I brought- "Buy one get one free" marge telling my son as I got it out of the bag- one for you and one for starsky!
Tinkerbell his sister who has been my dog since 5 months  so not as much running about free eating out of bins! will sneak chocolate badly- she robbed most of my xmas chocolate bells off the tree the very night i put them on without knocking the tree down. Starsky will get into the kitchen bin if leftovers of value only now so all takeaway cartons, chicken bones out into the black bin outside so no temptation.

That was the main reason I ended up owning him, his owner could not cope with him trashing the bin and leaving it all around the house when she left him. Also he wee'd & poo'd for good measure too :-(
He only would do that now (I've realised through trail & error) if I go off to bed and leave him down stairs with my other 2 dogs!
I accommodate his misgivings for a peaceful life, so I try and keep all foody stuff in the fridge or microwave and let him come up stairs to bed with me... I'm all for a peaceful life where possible :-). I can understand that your OH gets cross it is frustrating we lavish food love walks and they still steal. Only try catching him in the act and making him realise he can't help himself but when your not there they will do as they please i have found.  

I had a dalmatian who never stole from work surfaces in his whole life, but he did steal food on 2 occasions, both Christmas time. He stole all the chocolates off the tree one year (luckily he was ok), and a few years later he stole a stilton cheese off the coffee table. We never really understood why he stole these items and not, for example, the roast chicken left on the work surface to rest every Sunday, but maybe it is to do with the unusual?
Currently i have a 4 year old cross breed,  his food is in a cupboard which he could easily open, but he never tries, he has always stolen from waste-paper bins if anyone puts a food wrapper in, but until recently he has never  stolen from work surfaces, a couple of weeks ago i put some chicken leftovers into his bowl at the back of the work surface to save until his normal dinnertime, as i have done many times in his life without incident, when i came back the chicken was gone, but the bowl hadn't moved. At first i was so surprised i decided someone must have gone into the kitchen and given it to him, but no one had.
A couple of days after he did the same thing.
Now i am much more wary of him stealing, he has been tempted, and enjoyed the rewards of stealing, i am certain he will do it again if he gets the chance - and maybe not from his own bowl next time.

Thank you all for your posts.

Its nice to hear about dogs that are even more troublesome than mine!  Thankfully Rosie has never worked out how to open cupboard or fridge doors so I shall remind my OH to be gratefull of that. 

I am particularly intrigued by those of you who feel that teaching a good leave has brought success - I think this feeds into a dog knowing its place in the pack, especially as the order wolves and wild dogs eat in is controlled by pack hierarchy I believe.  I think I will work on this and other ways to reaffirm pack leadership with Rosie.  Not sure if it will work because she is the most determined scavenger inside and outside the house that I have ever met, its just a natural instinct that is stronger in some dogs than in others and in her it is VERY strong - maybe she didn't get enough to eat as a pup and was pushed out by her littermates? 

Funnily enough our other dog, Scooby, who is a Ridgeback and bigger than Rosie has never been a problem - the only thing he will steal really quickly if he gets the chance is the kids playdough!?!

The pack theory of Alpha's eating before subordinates is not something I practice as its pretty impossible to sustain.  In this house there is me, my husband and two children, we all eat at different times.  For example, my children have their tea at around 5pm and me and my husband have our eve meal around 8pm, the dogs are fed around 7pm. My 3 dogs eat outside in the mornings as they have bones/wings this could be before or after we have had our breakfast.  My pup is on 3 meals a day and she eats her dinner before or after I eat mine.  To always eat before your dog is not possible in most households, sometimes you could do it but not always so the 'message' to the dogs is inconsistent.  I do not allow dogs to hang around the dinner table and the kids never offer their left overs. If there are any leftovers (not often) the kids leave the table and then its put in their bowls for later.

The hierarchy is within the 3 dogs, to look at them it is not easy to see who is top until the bones come out, then it is very obvious.  If I wanted to take it away from them it is never a problem.  The only time I would feel the need to do this is if we have guests with kids so any rec bones outside are removed to avoid any problems in the garden where the kids and dogs play.

I am not a great believer in the JF or Cesar ways - I think its taking the dominance thing a step to far but understand some people do so its each to their own.  I don't preach I just do things my way and it seems to work. 

> I am particularly intrigued by those of you who feel that teaching a good leave has brought success

I love this one - a reliable leave is a godsend for a curious dog.  Many a time I've averted disaster as one of the dogs as gone to check out something unsuitable on the floor.   You can teach a 'leave' with a covered titbit, put it on the floor and sit down with your dog to make sure you can re cover the treat quickly with your hand if your dog starts to move towards it.  Timing the instruction is important and a clicker can help your dog learn the cues.  A tip from our trainer was to NEVER give that titbit as the treat for leaving it.  Teach 'take' from your other hand.  Hope that makes sense.  The idea is to never give your dog the thing you have asked it to leave - it's too confusing if sometimes they can have it and sometimes they can't.  You can eventually move the treat to the worksurface for a reliable leave from that spot too.

> I think this feeds into a dog knowing its place in the pack

Nah.  It's just a basic do as I say command :)

Just remember: however well trained your dog - a roast chicken would be too tempting if you aren't there to guard it.  Put the good stuff away and keep as much as possible out of reach.  Don't tempt fate - or a dog!!

My 7 month old pup was the victim of an accidentally booby trapped worktop yesterday.

I had left some baking tins and cookie cutters out, just waiting to put them away, and she jumped up and knocked the whole lot off, clattering on to the tiled floor.  She leapt back and immediately went to the other side of the worktop where she - you guessed it - jumped up for a good sniff around.

I'd say it's not very effective on that basis!

> The pack theory of Alpha's eating before subordinates is not something I practice as its pretty impossible to sustain.

No, I wouldn't practice it in the sense of making the dogs eat last for the sake of making them eat last either.  I don't think dogs have anywhere near the same concept of time as we do and I doubt they would even register the order people/dogs ate in if there was a long period of time in between, I don't think they have the capacity to connect events seperated by time.

But I do think that it applies to the concept of when food is around it belongs to the alpha members of the pack unless they indicate otherwise (i.e. by putting it in the dogs bowl, walking away from it) - Rosie just thinks that food in the bin and dirty dishes waiting be washed up is food I've walked away from and is therefore fair game to her.  I need to find a way of teaching her that is not the case.

I feel that if I can instill better discipline around food generally with Rosie with a leave command, and be able to use it whenever food is around like out on walks and other things, she might start to develop self control and realise she has to stop and think that food other than what I eat at the dinner table might also 'belong' to me and be off limits to her.

I might also try to find somewhere else to feed her dinner other than in the kitchen (only place with washable floors and I feed raw so needs good hygiene) so that she just isn't ever allowed into the kitchen.

I'm not a fan of Ceaser Millan or Jan Fennel either.

When teaching the leave command, start with non-food objects to get some success, rewarding with treats, then progress to food - that's what we teach at our club and it works well.

I also use leave but find I have to be one ahead ..you see something they about to spot when walking down the road i say leave as we approach which is fine and works...but for the worktop surfers ..I have 3.. I use ..off ..

As long as they understand what the command means I don't suppose it matters what the word is.  I try to encourage owners to use 'off' when a dog jumps up rather than the word most use (down) as this seems to be the most misused word of all.  Also, if the dogs are on the sofa and the humans wants a seat. :-)