I only just noticed the the definition of a Beginners class is dog, owner and handler not to have won a first prize at an Open or Championship show.

I always thought it was........ not to have won a CC in the breed. Is that Special Beginners or something? Did it change? I'm confused.

Dawn R.

> not to have won a CC in the breed. Is that Special Beginners or something?

It isn't just in the breed it is having won a CC full stop by handler or owner and the dog of course.

I think Begnner must be another class, that I have never seen scheduled.

The special beginners can vary but is usually as Barbara has said.

I have entered one, a couple of years ago, which was not having won a first at the club. It did feel a bit odd but I was within my right to enter, having not won a first at that particular club.

The definitions I have for the variations on "Beginners" are ::

Beginners  - owner, handler or exibit not having won a forst prize at any show

Special Beginners  - owner, handler or exhibit no having won a first prize at a Championship show

Special Beginners Stakes - owner, handler or exhibit not having won a a Challenge Certificate

K 

What if the exibit has won 1st prize in shows abroad. Does it count her in the uk???????

I always count class wins at overseas shows when entering UK events. KC rules state any wins that count toward a National Ch title must be counted as a CC - so CAC's, CACIB and "majors" in the USA all should be classes as a CC when looking at class eligibility here in Uk.

K

I think you may find even single points (unless KC have altered it recently) in the US count as CC's as they count towards champion title, and I think and exhibit who won the Group at Crufts was disqualified fro being in Post Graduate.

As far as I can see (and quoted in 2010 Crufts schedule ) three, four and five point major wins are equivilent to a CC. No mention of single points.

Karen 

is it our southern club champ show you are looking at Dawn ? thats the only show I have seen where the definition is first prize rather than CC's.

Hi Claire, no it's ISBC coming up in March.

I've only ever seen the ''dog, handler and owner never to have won a CC''

Where have I been? :rolleyes: urghh, and I've forgotten how to do emoticons as well.

Dawn R.

I've only ever known Beginners to be for dog and handler to have never won a 1st place.

this is one of those classes that vary from place to place and is always worth checking the definiation inthe schedule.I have seem some that say

Owner handler or dog not having won a CC
Owner handler or dog not having won a first prize at a champ show
and a combination of the above with in that breed tacted on the end!

lol the rolleyes doesnt work anymore - it used to be my favourite !

ohhhhhhh wow I'm so confused reading this. My dog has won 8 first prizes in baby and puppy at i think mainly open and breed shows (in europe). His breeder showed him before he camr to me. I have never shown before so I have entered him into manchester dog show in junior and bannerdown special beginners stakes. It just says neither dog or owner or handler to have won a challenge certificate. Will I get disqualified??????? should I withdraw. I'm so confused now

Check the definition in the schedule.  Although most beginners stakes at champ shows seem to be not having won a CC.

No you are Ok for this class. Definition of classes for this show states :: 

Manchester SPECIAL BEGINNERS--Neither dog, owner or handler to have won a Challenge Certificate.

K

deep sigh!!!!!!!!! thankgoodness ;D will I be ok entering him in post graduate or do i have to count his firsts still? what classes would you recomend he is 12 months old

apparently this should explain
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=1775
hope this link works

This link refers to the Special Beginners Obedience competitions for KC Good Citizen Awards winners and not show ring classes?

As for counting wins for PG - Defination for PG is not having won a CC or five or more first prizes in PG, Limit or Open. As a result I would NOT count first place awards in baby puppy/puppy/ youth classes (like our Junior class)  but I would count first place awards from Intermediate/ Open or Working Class. Obviously a CAC or CACIB must be counted as equal to a CC.   

K

thanks klb for your help. Thats put my mind at rest :D