Thistle (18 month old lab) isn't the bravest dog in the world, in fact she's quite a wimp. I don't know why because we've done all the right 'socialising' things with her.
Anyway I take her to dog training and last week we were doing 2 minute 'sit stay'. She normally does this no problem, but when I went back to her she was shivering with fear, and wouldn't have her tit bit (serious unhappiness). I've got no idea why.Can anyone throw any light on it?
She was a bit off for the rest of the session. Now I'm wondering how to deal with her next week, as I'm sure she'll remember the incident.
Jane

I can't explain why this has happened but whatever you do don't stroke her and say there's a good girl,you think you are reassuring her but in fact you are telling her she is a good girl for being frightened. You need always, when nerves show, to do the opposite that you would do with children. Ignore the nerves and say come on, whats this, lets go, clap hands to distract, play, anything but make a fuss of her. The minute you stroke and fuss will endorse the nerves.

Try next week, when you go in again ignore any nerves, use a nice but firm voice come, praise when she does, ignore nerves, if she backs off insist she comes, praise again. If she shakes ignore it.

I hope this helps - good luck

Bobbi

Were there any new dogs in class ?
Anybody eye balling her ?
other than that ,sorry don't know
Maybe do shorter sit stays and build up again
( Says she who's dog is always first to break ) :)
Liz :)

Is she due in season? I don't think I'd go next week? I suppose it depends on what your dog's like? If you go next week it might still be fresh in her mind- if leave it next week and you go the week after she might have let it slip and be okay? The shorter sits and build up that Liz suggested sounds like a good idea:)

Stacey x x x

Come to think of it the owner of the dog who was next to us is a bit 'shouty' and his dog was being disobedient, so maybe Thistle thought she was being shouted at. She's not due to come in season.
I'll try not to re-inforce the wimpish behaviour by making a fuss of her. It's hard though isn't it?
Thanks for your suggestions
Jane

It is Jane- because you're not trying to re-inforce her wimpish behaviour but you want to support them don't you- especially if you can see that they're scared etc:)

I have the opposite problem with Kass- again- like you despite all the socialising that was done as a pup etc- she can still be a bit iffy with other dogs occasionally and barks hoping they'll back off from the noise of her- she's not trying to attack or anything of the sort she's just scared and doesn't know what else to do. John once said that it's because she knows she can't take flight if she wants to when she's on the end of the lead- this is true- she's fine off. But I've tried re-assuring her that everythings okay- not making a fuss just a few gentle words in her ear and I've tried letting her know that I won't accept her behaviour Any ideas?:)

Stacey x x x

Hiya -I think you've hit it there ,> the man next to you was shouty < If she's a delicate soul then a man shouting is going to upset her ,
Bless her, it is hard....your reaction is to cuddle her and ' make it better '
Liz :)

Oh dear poor thing. Lots of love to get her to trust keep at it well done.

Julieann

Jane,
My Cava, 19 month old Beardie, can appear to be as confident as anything, but there is one dog/handler combination at one of the classes we go to that he doesn't like. Much the same reason, deepish quite loud flat voice, he just suddenly left me one day in the middle of heel free and hid under the bench at the side of the hall. I dealt with it by carrying on round the hall flinging his toy up and catching it having a fine game to myself. Then went and sat down not with him so he had to come and join me. After that if he did this I would go into middle of hall and do a stay beside him first and moved away slowly. I never reassure him as that would only reinforce his idea that there is something to fear. I also went to flyball class as this dog/handler go and he enjoys flyball so much that he pretty much ignores them. I think myself it is the handlers voice, but they can't help that. He is much better but sometimes does have a wobbly but I just ask him to do something he can cope with and progress from there.
Anne

I agree with all the advice given, and agree too it was probably the loud shouty person who upset yours.

In your position, (and isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!!! :D ) I would in fact have removed my dog - purely because i feel it is up to us to help our dogs feel safe in this sort of situation. PLEASE don't think I am criticising you because that is absolutely not my intention, but I if a dog is scared in a Stay then it may have training repercussions, however your dog sounds fantastic to actually stay there, where she was worried, maybe not a wimp after all but a very brave girl indeed :)

Ideally the trainer would have spotted the incident and would have a word with the shouty person and explain that they are upsetting other dogs.

The same thing happened to me at an exemption show, my dog broke the Down Stay because an idiot handler was not only shouting at her dog, next to mine, but kept gesticulating and jumping up and down. I could have strangled her.....but I was very good 'cos I didn't!!!! ;)

Lindsay

A few comments.
It would appear that Thistle is a little sensitive? My own Anna is to so you need to be very careful to always present a bold confident front to her. She must look upon you as her guardian and protector. Never pander, be firm. (I don’t mean hard) Firm leadership will give reassurance, woolly leadership will not. There are times when she is worried when you want to sweep her up into your arms, I know, we all do! But resist! Tell her not to be so silly! And get on with what you were doing. This is confidence building, to make a fuss of her and tell her you are sorry for upsetting her is draining her confidence by making her think there was something worth worrying about!

I read it that the stays were out of sight? If that is the case, how were they organised? All in a line or scattered around on the floor? In a line try to pick a place close to a quiet dog, (I know that is not always possible but its amazing what you can do by thinking ahead a little once you have worked out how the instructor works!!!) Angle your dog towards the door you are going out of. The far end of the row means you have further to walk but more important, it means your dog can see all the other dogs and does not have any further down the line which she cannot see. If the dogs are just scattered around on the floor, again, I would put her right at the back so she can see them all.

My own Anna is inclined to be nervy but by taking care I can leave her out of sight for ten minutes to a quarter of an hour while I go to but some dummies out for blind retrieves with no fear of her moving.

Regards, John

Dear John/Lindsay
Thanks for your comments. We are the newest participants in the advanced group, so although most of the owners left the room I stayed in because Thistle has just joined the group. We were all in a line and she was next to the shouty owner, who might have upset her. She didn't break the stay, but was just mortified and shaking when I went back to her. I went and sat at the side with her then, to give her chance to chill out.I think she is just very sensitive. The next day when I took her for a walk she uncharacteristically put her tail between her legs and ran away from 2 big black labs that wanted to play. I took the firm approach and she was OK and seems to have put it behind her. I'll see how training goes this week.
Jane

I'm having more problems with Thistle being 'sensitive'. After the incident last year training classes were cancelled because of Kennel Cough. When we went back after 5/6 weeks Thistle hadn't forgotten that she didn't like training classes and she is so nervous now I can't see the point of taking her because she hates it and just sits there shivering.
Last night I took her to the pub and she was quite jumpy and then she growed at an 'in yer face' lady who kept trying to fuss her. I was astonished, Thistle's never growled at a person before, but she was backed into a corner with this woman getting closer and closer.
Today we went in the rugby club for a cup of tea while my son was playing rugby. Thisle backed into my legs and just sat there shivering with a really pathetic look on her face. I'm at a real loss to understand her behaviour. We have done all the right 'socializing' things. No one has ever shown her anything but kindness. I'm at a bit of a dead end about how to deal with it.
Any thoughts?
Jane

How old is Thistle now?

20 months

Hi,
I have a similar problem with my 15 month old Labrador. I socialised her from the moment she was born but some dogs just seem to be born more sensitive than others.She is very nervous at training class and has growled at a chap that came bounding over to fuss her.Previously to this she would hit the deck and pee which was so upsetting to see.I do my best to ignore such behaviour and I can honestly say I have seen an improvement in her.
As a way of getting over people fear I let her meet people with my other two labs who think people are fantastic. I used my friends as 'strangers' and got them to fuss the other two and ignore her while giving the other two treats and a big fuss. She wanted to know what was happening and soon came slinking over to have a sniff and see what the fuss was about.As soon as she realised that treats and pats were on offer she soon came round and was totally relaxed after a few minutes. In dog class we have just moved up to the advance class and the first night we were there she was nipped on the bum by a GSD that escaped from its owners car outside. She wasn't hurt thank goodness, but scared, so I ignored her jumping up and carried on as if nothing had happened. She was much more frightened this week and could not concentrate on what I was saying or trying to get her to do, but she was like this when we started and has made it to the advanced classes so I know what she is capable of. I would persevere with her training and socialisation but try to control it, taking it one level at a time. She obviously does not want big shouty people in her face, so it might be an idea to let her go to them if she wants with bribes of treats and gentle stroking.I would not let people approach her for the moment and would gradually let her get her confidence back.
I am no expert but this approach has really worked for me. Hope it helps,
Best Wishes, Amy

Hello Jane,

Personally, I would take Thistle back to the training class and spend a couple of sessions not joining in with the others. What I mean is, I would find a quiet area of the room and do my own thing with the dog, play games, give commands like sit, down, stand, whatever she was good at doing before, that is simple and focussed upon you. Keep it really fun, play with a favourite toy, ignore all other dogs and owners, and keep the session short, but fun. If she was happier in the lower class, then that is the one I would take her to. Basically, I'd be trying to build her confidence and get her focussed on you, not the rest of the class. I would not have her sit watching what was going on, but keep her mind busy and focussed on you. Don't give her time to think negative thoughts.

I think I would talk to the trainer and get permission to attend whichever class has the least dogs in it so she is not overfaced by numbers (and it would probably have a quieter noise level), or perhaps, if there was a dog she particularly liked, join the class which that dog went to, just so she had every opportunity to feel happy and confident. But as I said before, I would not join in with the others, but do my own thing in a separate space.

I am saying that this is what I would do, because I am making an assumption that she used to like training classes before she was promoted to the advanced class and had this bad experience. I would be trying to remind her of how much fun it used to be. Basically, I'd be trying to work out which elements of the training experience that she thrived on and concentrating on re-creating those elements. Forget the rest. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say! :D

Best wishes, Monty's Mum

Jane

Poor old Thistle. It sounds although she has a good memory and has picked up on her bad experoience at training before and is reacting to different siyuations by being defensive.

See what John comes up for you again as I am not sure how to help here as have never had this problem before with my girls.

Hope it resolves the problem soon so Thistle will be able to enjoy going places again without this sort of reaction.

If you want do you want to meet up for that walk an see how she reacts with the girls ? Perhaps she needs her confidence building up again and you know that my crew are all sound so it may help.

Let me know.

Lucy

It's a difficult one, and part of the problem is understanding exactly where her behaviour is coming from.

For instance, did she like or love training classes before the other problem in the advanced class? Are the classes generally full of happy dogs and people, or are people there stressed out and dogs told off a lot or shouted at? As she may be scared of the whole atmosphere.

My dog races to get into our training and agility sessions, she loves it so much, and she had her shy moments in the past.

I do like the suggesti0ns from Monty's Mum :)

Also, you say you socialised, but did you keep this up all the time? It is so important when a small pup, but I feel to it is important to keep it up over the months. I know in the past my dog has gone backwards a bit when I have concentrated on outings to the forest instead of to busier places, shops etc.

I agree not to fuss her when she shows fear, be as normal as possible. If you are at all in terested in clicker training, you can sometimes use this for these kinds of problems, such as click and treat for the dog showing positive behaviour, but I wouldn't suggest this if you are not versed in clicker ways as timing is pretty crucial.

I think at the end of the day, I would basically make it very pleasant and rewarding for her to be anywhere she is worried about - lots of praise (and I owuld use titbits too, tasty ones such as cheese and liver) when ever she shows calm behavour.Oh, and don't let anyone force themselves upon her, or she may get worse.

Best wishes
Lindsay